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Going To Boot Camp

An anonymous reader writes "PC World has first impressions of what it's like to run Windows with Boot Camp, the recently announced official dual-boot software for the Intel Macs." From the article: "Back in Windows, I got right down to business and installed a few games to put the graphics and sound support to the test. The quick and dirty verdict on performance? Most impressive. Doom 3 and Far Cry both ran smoothly with high-end graphics options turned on. In both cases, I had to tweak visual settings manually, since the games automatically set themselves to very low settings. Far Cry, for example, autodetected very low settings, but it ran without a hitch when I bumped the resolution up to 1280 by 720, with all visual quality options set to 'High.'"

13 of 531 comments (clear)

  1. How many mac users? by tpgp · · Score: 4, Insightful
    How many mac users felt dirty reading the following comments?
    ....preferences page that Boot Camp installs to ensure that XP was set as the default OS.....
    and
    I'd think I was working on a standard Windows PC with a wide-screen monitor. And that's exactly what you'd want from a usable dual-boot system.
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  2. Let me guess... by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...it's just like running Windows XP on any other x86 hardware, but in a bright white box?

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    1. Re:Let me guess... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Yeah, Boot Camp is exciting and great, but this article is total fluff. "Firefox downloaded and installed flawlessly." Just the kind of unrelenting journalism I expect from PC World.

      Here's the funny thing. If I ever load Windows on my Mac, the last thing I'm going to do is use it for anything that has to do with the web, except maybe online gaming. If I want to do e-mail or browse the web, I'll switch back to OS X so I can avoid all the Windows Malware out there.

      --
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  3. Apple is going to make a killing... by avalys · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To everyone who thinks this is going to be Apple's demise, you are completely wrong. No one buys a Mac for the hardware. Apple blathers on and on about how they're a hardware company, but that's bull. They're a software company, and they make the best desktop operating system on the planet.

    No one is going to buy a Mac now to run Windows on it. They're going to buy a Mac because they've always wanted to try OS X, but they have a few stubborn applications that they need to run on Windows, and until now couldn't justify the risk of switching and losing access to them. People on here would say "Just keep a second computer!", but most people aren't interested in that.

    It is absurd to suggest that Apple is going to die now that people can run Windows on their Mac. The whole point of a Mac is NOT to run Windows. That's why people pay Apple's high prices - for the ability to run OS X. Companies are not going to stop making OS X software just because Apples can run Windows - if people wanted Windows, they would've bought a freaking Dell!

    What this does is make it possible, not convenient, for people to run any Windows applications that they still depend on. I don't understand why people think this means companies will stop porting applications to OS X - no one is going to tolerate dual-booting between OS X and Windows to use any major desktop application.

    The only things that will be affected are utility programs from small companies that don't primarily make software - for instance, I have a GPS unit and Meade Telescope that can both only be updated from Windows. I'd imagine any plans for Mac ports of those utilities are going to be put on hold (I doubt they even existed). That's a little bit annoying, but you have to take the bad with good.

    As for games, Mac gaming is not in an especially robust state at the moment anyway. I really don't care to see it die, I've never played a game on my Mac.

    Take my dad, for instance. He loves to play chess against Fritz 8 and over the net with Playchess.com, which I bought him a few years ago. But it only runs on Windows. He's been wanting to get a Mac when his current computer dies, but until now he wouldn't be able to run his favorite software. He doesn't mind the hassle of dual-booting.

    This will entice a huge population of people who have been teetering on the edge to make the switch. And now every time they reboot into OS X from Windows, or into Windows from OS X, the superiority of OS X will become clear. Even more so as time goes on, when the Windows installation becomes a spyware-infested, bloated piece of crap with fifteen different taskbar icons taking up 30MB of RAM each that starts to pause mysteriously after common tasks, and OS X just keeps humming along.

    I didn't have any plans to upgrade my PowerBook before this, but I'm going to pick up a MacBook Pro this weekend.

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    1. Re:Apple is going to make a killing... by Zathrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      was going to buy a Dell M90 loaded = $3500 or so

      MacBook Pro with all options = $3400


      Huh, I get $3600 for the MacBook... or did you forget to include the 3 year warranty that's standard on the Dell M90?

      But even so, you're comparing a 17" laptop with 1920x1200 resolution and an insanely powerful graphics card (Nvidia Quadro FX 2500M w/ 512 MB dedicated memory) to a 15" laptop with 1440x900 resolution and a very powerful graphics card (ATI Mobility 1600 w/ 256 MB dedicated memory). Not to mention the vast raft of other differences between the two. And the Dell is more expensive? Imagine that! I bet you didn't even try to use free Dell coupons that cut the price down, now did you? Hell, I can't even guess what screwed up way you configured the Dell to make such an absurd comparison -- because, unsurprisingly, you didn't give details.

      Hey, let's try for a more fair comparison.
      Base level MacBook Pro: $1999
      Dell Inspiron E1505 upgraded appropriately: $1501 - $450 = $1051 (upgrades: T2400 CPU, XP MCE install CD, remote control, 15.4" WSXGA screen, 512MB single DIMM, 80 GB 5400 rpm HD, 8X DVD/CD DL burner, 3945 Wireless NIC + Bluetooth, ATI Radeon X1400)

      Now the Dell is not a 100% replica of the Apple, but neither is the Apple completely superior to the Dell. This isn't a full list of differences, but it hits the high points:

      Dell advantages: Higher resolution screen (1680x1050), dual layer burner, built in modem, two mouse buttons on the laptop itself, $950 in your pocket. (Yesterday you could've gotten 1 GB of RAM for the same price, but that deal expired)

      Mac advantages: Much more powerful video card, slightly faster RAM (the Dell can take the RAM, they're just being cheap asses), integrated web cam, backlit keyboard, can boot both OS X and XP.

      Again, that's not a full list. There are software differences (which are solved for $1000 for what essentially boiled down to running OS X. I suspect most other people look at it the same way.

  4. OS X games by suzerain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One sad thing about this, as a Mac user and Mac gamer, is that this probably puts a big fat nail in the coffin for AAA OS X-native game titles. Or maybe it's less of a nail, and more like sticky tape, meaning the coffin can be reopened if OS X attains a bigger critical mass.

    Another interesting side-effect is the stats. Apple is always fond of calling people 'switchers', as if when the person buys a Mac for his home, his Windows box suddenly disappears. Well, now, we've got a machine that can run anything....so...er...what is it? Makes me feel like the only real way to track platform penetration will be browser stats.

    Strange new developments, indeed, even though we all knew it would happen when Apple went Intel.

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    gameDB
  5. That's funny by punkr0x · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Firefox downloaded and installed flawlessly, and iTunes streamed songs easily from other PCs on the network.

    So he installed a better browser, because IE is crap... and ran iTunes. Why is he even doing these things in XP, he has OS X on the damn machine!!

    Obviously the big reason is games, but I think this is going to be bad for gaming on macs in the long run. Not many developers released their games on mac before, but why bother now? Just install XP!

  6. Re:comments from a non-gamer... awesome by GauteL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Has this idiot never played FarCry before?"

    Precious.

    First, quite a lot of non-idiots have never played Far Cry.

    Second, most modern games, can (and should) automatically detect graphics settings according to the computer hardware. You are free to change the settings afterwards. The importance of this is easily seen with most modern shooters (or Oblivion), which have obscene amounts of graphics settings. I'm sure Oblivion has around 20 different levers with at least ten options each. Giving a massive 10^20 number of combinations. Some help from the game designers in finding an optimal setting automatically is much appreciated.

    If I wasn't so diplomatic, I'd be tempted to call anyone wanting to waste time testing all combinations a moron.

  7. Excellent idea by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Best thing Apple did since... well, I think since the MacBook Pro because they've done a lot of great things this year already.

    Early in my days, I tried to get people switch to Linux by explaining all its advantages, helping them to install it, the whole nine yards. Worked sometimes, didn't work most of the time.

    Since then, I've gone another path: The slow migration. Show them Firefox. Give them OpenOffice. Get them to use Thunderbird. etc. Then, when they are angry about their next windos crash, suggest Linux and show them that all of those run on Linux just the same. Instant switch. Moved my girl to Ubuntu just a few weeks ago, and she only boots dual-boots into windos for games by now.

    Apple's using the same technique. Let people use what they're comfortable with, but tease them with the better thing (OSX) while making the switch as painless as possible (runs in same hardware).

    By the time Vista comes out, Apple will probably have a sizeable chunk of the market, definitely more than 10%.

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  8. Why this is significant: Risk Reduction by Fished · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I think a lot of people are missing the true significance of bootcamp. What bootcamp does is, for the home user, reduce the risk of buying a Mac. A lot of home users (even fairly savvy ones) are uncomfortable with the idea of jumping to a Mac if it's a one-way trip, and if they don't like it they're stuck with this very expensive piece of hardware that is useless to them because they need to run "X".

    Now, they can buy a Mac in the knowledge that, if there is some vital piece of software (be it a custom app, or a game, or whatever) it /can/ be run. And, if they just hate Mac OS, they still have a very slick Windows box. This is even more the case with the availability of virtualization solutions--Apple now has a convenient transitional platform for switchers.

    What Apple is betting on is that the user experience on Mac OS X is enough better that, when users get to try OSX and Windows side-by-side, they'll prefer OSX. Where OS2 missed was not by offering compatibility, but by failing to offer any compelling advantage to running native. Apple offers many compelling advantages, including a spiffy look and feel, much better "ease of use", and much less risk from malware. And that is why this strategy makes sense.

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  9. Re:Dual boot? How about virtualization, too! by pi+radians · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its the first time I've seen so many Macheads get so excited about running windows (or windows applications).

    You obviously weren't around 10 years ago for the release of SoftWindows, Virtual PC, RealPC, or OrangeMicro's PCI x86 compatible cards. The only people who are shocked by Apple's actions and Apple users' excitement about Windows compatibility are those who haven't been paying much attention. Heck, Apple even had print ads and a TV commercial showing their systems running both OSs at the same time.

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  10. Re:What's Apple up to? by diamondsw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We may only be months away from a general x86 release of OSX.

    That's completely fucking asinine.

    Windows and OS X on a Mac = Hardware revenue for Apple
    Windows and OS X on a PC = Hardware revenue for someone else

    Explain why this is such a good idea?

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  11. Re:Dual boot? How about virtualization, too! by dbrutus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No doubt this 1st beta release is a response to kill any adoption of the "hack" method with attendant community creation. I think that it's very likely that the normal course of events would have seen the beta released later with all hardware drivers already written at least in rough form.