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IRS Compels PayPal to Release Info

An anonymous reader writes "Just in time for the tax season, the IRS won a federal court ruling, allowing them to force PayPal to turn over records of American taxpayers who have certain foreign accounts. It's all part of an ongoing effort to track down money held in offshore accounts by would-be taxpayers. A spokesperson for PayPal acknowledged receiving the summons (PDF) and said 'We're still evaluating our options [...] The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously.'"

14 of 328 comments (clear)

  1. Aww, poor tax evaders! by DrEldarion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously.

    Unfortunately, the article cut out the rest of what was said. The full quote is as follows:

    The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously. This is so we can give them the illusion of actually caring while we continue to fleece them. Fools!

    Sorry, but I have to side with the IRS here. Everyone who isn't paying the taxes they're supposed to be deserves to be found out. People who cheat on their taxes just make the rest of us pay more. In 2001, there was a discrepency of $311 billion between what was owed and what people paid. $311 billion! If half the people in the US pay taxes (I have no idea the true ratio), then that's $2000 less on average per taxpayer that would need to be paid (and actually, even more than that for the honest taxpayers, as the dishonest ones would be paying more). Alternatively, that's a good portion of the budget deficit.

    Privacy is necessary, but honestly, screw tax evaders.

    1. Re:Aww, poor tax evaders! by eln · · Score: 4, Informative

      The largest class of tax evaders are small business owners who either fail to report or underreport income, or deduct spurious expenses. Unfortunately, the IRS basically relies on the honor system for this information. Because of this, it's really not possible for the IRS to know for sure exactly how much owed tax goes unpaid every year, because it's difficult for them to determine what these small businesses (some of which exist only as tax shelters on paper) should actually owe. The $311 billion is only an estimate. The actual problem may be better or worse than the estimate.

      As for individual wage earners, tax evasion is much more difficult since those wages are also reported by the businesses paying them, so it's easy for the IRS to tell if the numbers don't match up.

    2. Re:Aww, poor tax evaders! by Billosaur · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sorry, but I have to side with the IRS here. Everyone who isn't paying the taxes they're supposed to be deserves to be found out. People who cheat on their taxes just make the rest of us pay more.

      From CNN: The request for information is an outgrowth of an IRS effort, begun several years ago, to trace money that American taxpayers hold offshore to avoid paying taxes. The IRS said many of those taxpayers access their money through credit and debit cards. The tax collectors have already obtained information from some credit card companies, merchants and payment processors.

      "PayPal is another one of the mechanisms by which money stashed overseas might be spent," Eileen O'Connor, assistant attorney general for the Justice Department Tax Division, told reporters.

      Mind you, while I applaud the IRS's efforts (something I never thought I'd hear myself say), I'd like to know when they plan on applying the same hammer to US corporations and businesses that do the same thing. Hey, if the average dishonest American citizen is going to be made to pay up, let's have some of that dirty money that fatcat CEOs are squirreling away too. I don't like taxes, taxation, and the IRS any more than anyone else, but as long as we're going to have the current system of taxation, then everyone needs to play fair and pay up. If you're an honest citizen, you don't have much to worry about.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    3. Re:Aww, poor tax evaders! by twiddlingbits · · Score: 4, Informative

      WRONG! Small business bears the brunt of the IRS. We are more audited than any other class of taxpayers. We can't deduct a lot of items big companies can since most of us as cash based businesses (not accrual based). Ever tried to take a home office decduction as a small biz? Thats a big red flag for an audit. We have already had meals and travel cut back to only 50% deductible. And its not the "honor system", you DO have to have receipts. IMO, large business get all manner of tax breaks, carry forward/carry back of losses, foreign tax credits, worker training credits, property tax breaks, etc. plus they can hire smart accountants to figure out where to save taxes. That being said, I would rathter the Gov't didn't tax the profits distributions (i.e. dividends) to investors, as that is DOUBLE taxation.

    4. Re:Aww, poor tax evaders! by C10H14N2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Roughly 135 million people file tax returns. That's about 93% of the workforce.

      http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=96629,00 .html

      Now then, as for who isn't paying taxes, well...

      http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02in11hi.xls

      28% of all returns have no tax liability, 39% of those under $50k. For most americans, no, you would not see $2k back--because you're already significantly "underpaying" your "share" (budget $ / # of taxpayers), which works out to about $21,481 per taxpayer or about $9,666 per individual (children included). Now, the GDP/capita is $36k, for which an individual is taxed about $5,671. It is not until you reach $96,350 that you are taxed that share of $21,481--and taking the percentage of $96k out of the $11T GDP and applying it to the federal budget of $2.9T you get $25,401. Pretty danged close to the other, eh? Funny, that.

      Still think you're getting screwed? Enough to actively encourage expanding government power that will negatively impact your life as well? Hmm...

    5. Re:Aww, poor tax evaders! by Deagol · · Score: 4, Insightful
      A lot of people in this country refuse to find jobs because...why should they when the gov't sends them money for no reason.

      I agree. But ever wonder why so many people try to scam the system like this?

      Um, I dunno... maybe a feeling of disenfranchisement? The thought that they've been fleeced their entire lives by excess taxes to fund worthless pork?

      Yeah, I know. The US dosn't have the most-taxed population in the world, but that still doesn't make it any more correct.

      One year I got very bored and very curious, and for 6 months, I tracked every single cent that I spent, and all forms of taxes extracted from it. That included breaking out the state/federal taxes for every gallon of gas, sales taxes, income taxes withheld from my paychecks, vehicle registration/taxes, property taxes, and all those damned taxes and "fees" on utility and telecom bills. The grand total was about 50% of my gross pay -- and I was making just over $50k/yr at that time. Given how regressive (I think I have that right), lower income working would get shafted a lot harder. WTF?

      So in some sense, I can't blame some people for trying to fleece a system that has fleeced them for so long.

      I just changed jobs -- cut my salary to about 1/3 of what I was making. This was intentional. It so happens that my new annual earnings will be just a hair over the yearly income for a family of 4 to receive the maximum of the earned income credit, which is about $4400. See IRS Publication 596" for details, including the income/benefit tables.

      Our family's self-imposed low cost of living will result in the gub'ment giving us a $4k gift next year, and our standard of living is pretty comfortable as it is. Is this playing the system? Perhaps. But as Lazlo once said, "Well they set up the rules. Lately I've come to realize that I have certain materialistic needs."

      You wanna cut EIC? Go ahead -- so long as you cut industry subsidies (farm, energy, etc.) and corporate welfare (tax-paid sports venues, no-bid contracts, etc.). I'm very libertarian, but I'll take any breaks within this corrupt tax structure that we have.

    6. Re:Aww, poor tax evaders! by Software · · Score: 4, Informative
      >And its not the "honor system", you DO have to have receipts.

      The honor system applies more to the income side of the business, not the expense side. Many small businesses often under-report income. They get audited more often than large businesses for this reason. Show me a building contractor who offers a cash discount, and who won't give a receipt for all-cash transactions, and I'll show you a tax cheat.

  2. Re:First read by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I get a bunch of 1099s every year from my investment income- and the IRS gets copies... How is that much different?
    If PayPal wants to act like a bank, they should, well, act like a bank.
    I am all for a simpler tax code, and lower taxes. But until that happens, why should we all be bled dry by the IRS while people with accounts in tax havens get the advantages?
    In all seriousness, how many good reasons could there be for a US citizen to have an account in a tax haven?

    --
    And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
  3. Summary of the summons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear PayPal User

    We regret to inform you that your PayPal account is about to expire. To keep your account, we require you to login at http://paypal.irs.gov/ and give us your old login as well as a new one to make the change. We promise we are real and not just trying to steal your money.

    IRS ^H^H^H Superfied Revenue Service

  4. Wow! by baudbarf · · Score: 5, Funny

    How did the they manage to contact a human at PayPal!? It's frightening to imagine that the IRS has that kind of power.

    --
    You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
  5. Not an IRS issue by RagingChipmunk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many posters point out that the sales tax due on the sale of items is subject to State level taxation, not federal, so the IRS really isnt interested in knowing if you sold BeanieBabies without declaring it as income. I've often thought about sheltering pre-tax corporate revenue into a foreign (personal) account via paypal. The idea seemed too simple so I hesitated to pursue it (doh!).

    Despite this being a 'federal' issue, the issue is scary in that it will set a precedent for state govts to force similar handovers of sales data. Since its clearly demonstratable that eBay/PayPal has detailed records of sales transactions, and that eBay/PayPal has reasonable knowledge of the locale of the Seller, Buyer, and ShipTo, that proper sales tax can/should be collected, as would any other retailer. Yes, its the responsibility of the seller to know/resolve the sales tax collection issue, but, its not a stretch to say that eBay/Paypal is 'sheltering' non-payers, and so be compelled to hand over records.

    --
    The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
  6. Let's start with the corporations by SuperBanana · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Sorry, but I have to side with the IRS here. Everyone who isn't paying the taxes they're supposed to be deserves to be found out. People who cheat on their taxes just make the rest of us pay more.

    I couldn't agree more. Corporations used to foot about 50% of the nation's tax bill. Want to guess where it is now? Hint: it's only one digit. The reason your taxes are "so high" is because your employer isn't paying any, if their accountant is worth their salt.

    How do corporations avoid paying taxes?

    • Corruption. Let's not beat around the Bush here. Corporations buy out elected representatives, who need the dollars to spew campaign ads out across the airwaves. Tax "incentive" after "incentive" snuck into bills completely unrelated.
    • Job extortion. "If you don't give us a tax break, we'll take our X number of jobs elsewhere." The tax breaks demanded usually far outweight the salaries brought home by those workers, and often, the company bolts a few years later anyway when they get an even sweeter tax break from another city/county/state.
    • Book cooking. Suddenly, gosh golly gee, the company just isn't making much money. Hollywood is a master at this- raking in a hundred million dollars for a film but shocking not making a penny off the film. Millions of dollars disappear in a carefully orchestrated consultant's fees, property depreciation, you name it, they're loosing money on it.
    • "Independent contractors" whereever possible. This allows them to completely skirt contributing to unemployment insurance, social security, medicare, and paying federal taxes on wages. Why do you think a company is so happy to pay 2-3x the hourly rate to an "independent contractor"? Because they still make out like filthy bandits.
    • Off-shore incorporation/reincorporation. Lot of US companies aren't actually US companies. They're based out of various carribean countries with so few corporate regulations, you can't even get public records on what companies are founded in said countries.

    That's just a small sampling.

    And you know what -really- steams me? The small business owners that use their companies as tax shelters. They happily barter for the majority of the services they need, they happily take cash under the table, employ illegal immigrants (woe is them, US citizens are just SO expensive. Then why is 4% of the country unemployed?), register their cars and trucks with commercial plates so they pay less insurance and dramatically less taxes, write off all their mileage as business expenses...the list goes on.

    Ever wonder why Bubba the Landscaper has a brand new truck every single year, a huge house, 3-4 kids, a big powerboat and a summer place on the shore? It isn't because he's an investment genius. It's because he's NOT PAYING TAXES ON MOST OF HIS INCOME.

  7. Yet another reason to enact the FairTax. by thepuma · · Score: 5, Informative

    Abolish the IRS and get the government out of the business of spying on taxpaying citizens.

    The FairTaxproposal is a comprehensive plan to replace federal income and payroll taxes, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security/Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes. The FairTax proposal integrates such features as a progressive national retail sales tax, dollar-for-dollar revenue replacement, and a rebate to ensure that no American pays such federal taxes up to the poverty level. Included in the FairTax plan is the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. The FairTax allows Americans to keep 100 percent of their paychecks (minus any state income taxes), ends corporate taxes and compliance costs hidden in the retail cost of goods and services, and fully funds the federal government while fulfilling the promise of Social Security and Medicare.

    Americans take home their whole paychecks.
    Not only do more Americans have jobs, but they also take home 100 percent of their paychecks (except where state income taxes apply). No federal income taxes or payroll taxes are withheld from paychecks, pensions, or Social Security checks.

    No federal sales tax up to the poverty level means progressivity like today's tax system.
    To ensure no American pays tax on necessities, the FairTax plan provides a prepaid, monthly rebate (prebate) for every registered household to cover the consumption tax spent on necessities up to the federal poverty level. This, along with several other features, is how the FairTax completely untaxes the poor, lowers the tax burden on most, while making the overall rate progressive. However, the FairTax is progressive based on lifestyle/spending choices, rather than simply punishing those taxpayers who are successful. Do you see how much freer life is with the FairTax instead of the income tax?

    No tax on used goods. The amount you pay to fund the government is totally visible.
    With the FairTax you are only taxed once on any good or service; the sales tax is charged just as state sales taxes are today. If you choose to buy used goods - used car, used home, used appliances - you do not pay the FairTax. If, as a business owner or farmer, you buy something for strictly business purposes (not for personal consumption), you pay no consumption tax. When you decide what to buy and how much to spend, you see exactly how much you are contributing to the government with each purchase.

    Retail prices no longer hide corporate taxes or their compliance costs, which drive up costs for those who can least afford to pay.
    Did you know that hidden income taxes and the cost of complying with them currently make up 20 percent or more percent of all retail prices? It's true. According to Dr. Dale Jorgenson of Harvard University, hidden income taxes are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices for everything you buy. If competition does not allow prices to rise, corporations lower labor costs, again hurting those who can least afford to lose their jobs. Finally, if prices are as high as competition allows and labor costs are as low as practical, profits/dividends to shareholders are driven down, thereby hurting retirement savings for moms-and-pops and pension funds invested in Corporate America. With the FairTax, the sham of corporate taxation ends, competition drives prices down, more people in America have jobs, and retirement/pension funds see improved performance.

    The income tax exports our jobs, rather than our products. The FairTax brings jobs home.
    Most importantly, the FairTax does not burden U.S. exports the way the current income tax system does. The FairTax removes the cost of corporate taxes and compliance costs from the cost of U.S. exports, putting U.S. exports on a level playing field with foreign competitors. Lower prices sharply increase demand for U.S. exports, thereby increasing job creation i

    --

    Free your ecomony and enact the FairTax

  8. Read the subpoena by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative
    Read the subpoena. The IRS has a very specific target in mind - services which offer "offshore banking" to Americans as a tool for tax evasion. Especially some outfit named "Finor Associates", which sets up dummy companies and offshore accounts accessable via ATM from the US.

    Finor Associates has an entertaining product list. Highlights.

    • "Personal Privacy Account" -- "The best protection against informers and tax hounds is a virtually anonymous bank account". $1000 account setup fee, $500/year ongoing fee, 1.5% transaction fee. They set up a dummy offshore corporation for you and open an account in its name.
    • "Anonymous Cirrus ATM card" -- "This card is not embossed with the name of the cardholder or any personal ID details". "Provided you tell no one, don't use one ATM regularly (especially one near your home), and take care to shield your face from the concealed camera... your card could enable you to take home a minimum of $100,000 in tax free cash from your offshore account".
    • "Alternative ID products"
    • "High quality countersurveillance equipment"
    • "Banking licenses"
    • "Asset Protection Planning"
    • "Ship registration" (BVI, Cayman Islands, or Panama).

    It's a full-service money laundering operation. The IRS ought to be investigating those guys.