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IRS Compels PayPal to Release Info
An anonymous reader writes "Just in time for the tax season, the IRS won a federal court ruling, allowing them to force PayPal to turn over records of American taxpayers who have certain foreign accounts. It's all part of an ongoing effort to track down money held in offshore accounts by would-be taxpayers. A spokesperson for PayPal acknowledged receiving the summons (PDF) and said 'We're still evaluating our options [...] The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously.'"
The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously.
Unfortunately, the article cut out the rest of what was said. The full quote is as follows:
The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously. This is so we can give them the illusion of actually caring while we continue to fleece them. Fools!
Sorry, but I have to side with the IRS here. Everyone who isn't paying the taxes they're supposed to be deserves to be found out. People who cheat on their taxes just make the rest of us pay more. In 2001, there was a discrepency of $311 billion between what was owed and what people paid. $311 billion! If half the people in the US pay taxes (I have no idea the true ratio), then that's $2000 less on average per taxpayer that would need to be paid (and actually, even more than that for the honest taxpayers, as the dishonest ones would be paying more). Alternatively, that's a good portion of the budget deficit.
Privacy is necessary, but honestly, screw tax evaders.
First glance, whats the problem - paypal must follow requests for the law, then I read it and realised its another fishing mission.
They want paypal to give out the info of all US customers who use bank accounts in 30 taxhavens.
I really hope paypal manage to prevent this from happening, it seems like somebody has let power go to their head.
liqbase
I thought "fishing expeditions" were clearly a violation of unreasonable search and siezure.
//yeah, I should probably be less cranky given that my work weed ends in 1h2m :)
Oh, wait. What's that you say? They might catch terrorists? Why, in that case, citizen #83264967 stands ready for duty! Just let me chug some victory gin before we get those bastards.
The privacy of our customers' information is something we take really seriously.'
In fact, Paypal/eBay only cares about its bottom line, like any corporation. They care about the privacy of their customers insofar as their customers represents their bottomline, but once the IRS gets too threatening and/or when the heat of that story will be off, they'll turn over the information withouta qualm, be sure about it.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Are they going to start tracking down everything you sell on Ebay to make sure you pay tax on it?
Dear PayPal User
We regret to inform you that your PayPal account is about to expire. To keep your account, we require you to login at http://paypal.irs.gov/ and give us your old login as well as a new one to make the change. We promise we are real and not just trying to steal your money.
IRS ^H^H^H Superfied Revenue Service
Fuck eBay... fuck PayPal... fuck gOogle... long live /.
Yeees, I'm sure Slashdot would withhold your personal information and defend your right to privacy to the death if the feds asked for it...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
How did the they manage to contact a human at PayPal!? It's frightening to imagine that the IRS has that kind of power.
You can run but you can't hide, except, apparently, along the Afghan-Pakistani border.
This case per se isn't so important, I think, compared to the larger issue.
Basically, successful private companies sometimes accumulate large amounts of user information.
The State is in general then obtaining access to that information - the recent Google subpoena comes to mind.
In other words, any large scale accumulation of data is in effect part of the State's ability to monitor citizens, since the State seems in general to be able to access that information as and when it wishes to do so.
This is worrying.
The privacy of PayPal operating an unregulated global bank, at the core of global retail ecommerce, is their highest priority. I hope the IRS is just the first Federal agency to get a grip on those Medicis, especially since they rip off people every chance they get.
--
make install -not war
Slashdot might tell them the IP addresses you used to post from, but it'll cost them a subscription to see your entire posting history ;)
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Halliburton_Dubai: u here bout PP v IRS?
Halliburton_Bahamas: lol n00bz
What the hell are you talking about?
When the bank takes your SIN number it is so that CCRA knows exactly who to make sure paid their taxes on the interest.
If CCRA asks your bank for your accounts, your bank provides them. Infact for most things like RRSPs, RESPs, etc, the bank takes the money from you and forwards it directly to CCRA just incase you wanted to skip town with your cash.
What happend to honour, integrity and trust?
No one paid their taxes.
You have no idea what the CCRA can do. The way taxes work in Canada is if you get audited the CCRA gives you a bill, and unless you can prove otherwise that is your bill. Conversely, if they owe you, they send you the money. If you think they owe you more, you have to prove it.
Many posters point out that the sales tax due on the sale of items is subject to State level taxation, not federal, so the IRS really isnt interested in knowing if you sold BeanieBabies without declaring it as income. I've often thought about sheltering pre-tax corporate revenue into a foreign (personal) account via paypal. The idea seemed too simple so I hesitated to pursue it (doh!).
Despite this being a 'federal' issue, the issue is scary in that it will set a precedent for state govts to force similar handovers of sales data. Since its clearly demonstratable that eBay/PayPal has detailed records of sales transactions, and that eBay/PayPal has reasonable knowledge of the locale of the Seller, Buyer, and ShipTo, that proper sales tax can/should be collected, as would any other retailer. Yes, its the responsibility of the seller to know/resolve the sales tax collection issue, but, its not a stretch to say that eBay/Paypal is 'sheltering' non-payers, and so be compelled to hand over records.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
I couldn't agree more. Corporations used to foot about 50% of the nation's tax bill. Want to guess where it is now? Hint: it's only one digit. The reason your taxes are "so high" is because your employer isn't paying any, if their accountant is worth their salt.
How do corporations avoid paying taxes?
That's just a small sampling.
And you know what -really- steams me? The small business owners that use their companies as tax shelters. They happily barter for the majority of the services they need, they happily take cash under the table, employ illegal immigrants (woe is them, US citizens are just SO expensive. Then why is 4% of the country unemployed?), register their cars and trucks with commercial plates so they pay less insurance and dramatically less taxes, write off all their mileage as business expenses...the list goes on.
Ever wonder why Bubba the Landscaper has a brand new truck every single year, a huge house, 3-4 kids, a big powerboat and a summer place on the shore? It isn't because he's an investment genius. It's because he's NOT PAYING TAXES ON MOST OF HIS INCOME.
Please help metamoderate.
While I love seeing Paypal not getting their way, this ruling has much broader implications. All payment gateways and micropayment systems in the future (such as Google, I imagine) now have a legal precident that says they may need to turn over customer data to the IRS.
Also, does this issue already hold true for real-life equivalents such as credit cards and banks?
Abolish the IRS and get the government out of the business of spying on taxpaying citizens.
The FairTaxproposal is a comprehensive plan to replace federal income and payroll taxes, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security/Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes. The FairTax proposal integrates such features as a progressive national retail sales tax, dollar-for-dollar revenue replacement, and a rebate to ensure that no American pays such federal taxes up to the poverty level. Included in the FairTax plan is the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. The FairTax allows Americans to keep 100 percent of their paychecks (minus any state income taxes), ends corporate taxes and compliance costs hidden in the retail cost of goods and services, and fully funds the federal government while fulfilling the promise of Social Security and Medicare.
Americans take home their whole paychecks.
Not only do more Americans have jobs, but they also take home 100 percent of their paychecks (except where state income taxes apply). No federal income taxes or payroll taxes are withheld from paychecks, pensions, or Social Security checks.
No federal sales tax up to the poverty level means progressivity like today's tax system.
To ensure no American pays tax on necessities, the FairTax plan provides a prepaid, monthly rebate (prebate) for every registered household to cover the consumption tax spent on necessities up to the federal poverty level. This, along with several other features, is how the FairTax completely untaxes the poor, lowers the tax burden on most, while making the overall rate progressive. However, the FairTax is progressive based on lifestyle/spending choices, rather than simply punishing those taxpayers who are successful. Do you see how much freer life is with the FairTax instead of the income tax?
No tax on used goods. The amount you pay to fund the government is totally visible.
With the FairTax you are only taxed once on any good or service; the sales tax is charged just as state sales taxes are today. If you choose to buy used goods - used car, used home, used appliances - you do not pay the FairTax. If, as a business owner or farmer, you buy something for strictly business purposes (not for personal consumption), you pay no consumption tax. When you decide what to buy and how much to spend, you see exactly how much you are contributing to the government with each purchase.
Retail prices no longer hide corporate taxes or their compliance costs, which drive up costs for those who can least afford to pay.
Did you know that hidden income taxes and the cost of complying with them currently make up 20 percent or more percent of all retail prices? It's true. According to Dr. Dale Jorgenson of Harvard University, hidden income taxes are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices for everything you buy. If competition does not allow prices to rise, corporations lower labor costs, again hurting those who can least afford to lose their jobs. Finally, if prices are as high as competition allows and labor costs are as low as practical, profits/dividends to shareholders are driven down, thereby hurting retirement savings for moms-and-pops and pension funds invested in Corporate America. With the FairTax, the sham of corporate taxation ends, competition drives prices down, more people in America have jobs, and retirement/pension funds see improved performance.
The income tax exports our jobs, rather than our products. The FairTax brings jobs home.
Most importantly, the FairTax does not burden U.S. exports the way the current income tax system does. The FairTax removes the cost of corporate taxes and compliance costs from the cost of U.S. exports, putting U.S. exports on a level playing field with foreign competitors. Lower prices sharply increase demand for U.S. exports, thereby increasing job creation i
Free your ecomony and enact the FairTax
Finor Associates has an entertaining product list. Highlights.
It's a full-service money laundering operation. The IRS ought to be investigating those guys.
I think most of you are missing the big picture. Any of you seen the movie "Enemy of the State?" Will Smith was just like most of you.
Yeah that's exactly how it always starts. All the "honest citizens" sign away all their rights in hopes of catching the criminals. However, in order to do that, you have to treat the "honest citizens" like criminals.
I don't care who you are, there is something in your lifestyle or habits that resembles something a criminal would do. Where do you draw the line?
Also, I thought slashdot was the home of comspiracy theories?
In 2001, there was a discrepency of $311 billion between what was owed and what people paid. $311 billion! Since when do we trust big coporations around here? The governement HAS to be the biggets corporation of them all! People think about it: In order to estimate how much money they're missing, they'd have to have some idea as to who wasn't paying. If they had kind of lead, they'd be auditing that class of tax payers (which they probably are).
I think most of you are missing the big picture. Any of you seen the movie "Enemy of the State?" Will Smith was just like most of you.
"Why do I care if they're invading my privacy? I'm not doing anything illegal!"
Yeah that's exactly how it always starts. All the "honest citizens" sign away all their rights in hopes of catching the criminals. However, in order to do that, you have to treat the "honest citizens" like criminals. Before you know it, everything you buy or say over the phone gets you red flagged. There are examples of false alarms of good people posted all over the net. I don't care who you are, there is something in your lifestyle or habits that "resembles the criminal profile." Where do you draw the line?
Also, I thought slashdot was the home of comspiracy theories?
In 2001, there was a discrepency of $311 billion between what was owed and what people paid. $311 billion!
Talk about propaganda! People think about it: In order to estimate how much money they're missing, they'd have to have some idea as to who wasn't paying. If they had kind of lead, they'd be auditing that class of tax payers (which they probably are). This is just another platform for Government Agencies to push their agendas of privacy invasion.
ps: I hit "Submit" instead of "Preview". I trid to hit stop, but I couldn't catch it in time. Sorry for the inconvience.
The wikipedia article that a sibling poster attempted to link to has the full controversy.
If you assume an incredibly strict interpretation of the Constitution and all relevant statutes, the GP has a point. I don't know the exact statutes regarding how states are admitted into the union, so I can't lend creedence to any beliefs that my home state wasn't such until 1953.
A similar incident happened recently in congress when a bill was passed and signed into law even though both the House and Senate did not pass identical versions of the bill. The courts say so long as the Speaker and Senate leader (not sure if this means pro-tempore, majority, or VP) sign off on the bill, it can be cleared for the president.
If the assest protection depends on hiding assests, than it's not an legit asset protection.
A lot of what you said is just asset hiding, which you don't need to go off-shore tax heaven. It's just much harder to discover. Once there is a civil money judgement against your, the plantiff attorneys will surely file discovery request on your assets. You can try to hide, but have fun with jail times for cotempt or prejury if discovered.
And unless you fled with your money. The court still have power over you. You can build "anti-duress" provision into your off-shore asset protection trust. But if judge jail you for civil contempt, what are you going to do?
Don't believe me, search for "H Beatty Chdwick" for someone who hides 2.5 millions in oversea account and jailed over a decade for it.
For more recent case(Maybe too recent), searh for John Kontrabecki.
While you might be allowed to leave and join a different club, it's not free.. the IRS can still demand you pay income taxes for the next ten years, even if you renounce your US citizenship. While they might not send the goons to go kidnap you and bring you back, the next time you visit the US (say, for a family funeral or a friend's wedding) you can expect to be met at the airport. Search for [expatriation tax].
there in one place too long... They're comin' to get you..." (especially hollywierd... I read about them, how they shuffle millions of dollars around between investors, producers and more, and then the taxable money or profits just go "poof", vanish, vaporized...)
heheh...
Seriously, I kind of HOPE they IRS and state tax organs would just have DIRECT access to payroll information. I'm fucking TIRED of filling out forms for shit they already know.
I realize that by filing and signing, I'm "participating" in an honesty/honor system that purportedly wants to "respect" tax payers. But, the retired IRS types probably are the ones delaying the direct filings that would SAVE US money and COST THEM money their cronies let them earn.
Why the hell is it that so many things are difficult to file? I could file in the IRS office for two non consecutive years, but not the intervening year because I had dividends or stocks back then. Hell, it was a late filing, and nobody came after me, and I got my two checks from before and after, so if no red flags were attached to my name, and it was a late filing with no IRS penalties associated, then WHY not go ahead and process that one, too, with the caveat that there better be no surprises?
But, most 'merkuns would go ballistic if they sensed the government prying into their personal matters. Hell, the government knows A LOT, they just don't have the human labor to knock on every door, assess or inspect every home, and determine if the amenities and furniture and junk in them exceed the mapped level of income filed from previous years.
In some ways, earning LESS money, and having NOT stocks, 401k, IRA, etc, makes things EASIER. I HATE paperwork, unless **I'M** generating drawings or notes I can manage.
I'm STILL waiting for the government to allow Linux-users to file directly online WITHOUT using special technology other than a secure browser (or has that been made possible yet?).
I'm STILL waiting for the government to allow and encourage automated filing. Every pay stub, you'd get a little snipped or a login code to look up the period's or quarter's deductions against your projected dues and if all stays on track, you WON'T have to file... OR sign on any dotted line. That could eliminate a LOT of under the table payments, particularly since states (most? all?) require employers to report new hires, terms, layoffs, furloughs, injuries, and all related payments and claims in x number of days.
Between states and IRS, they know there is a FUCKLOAD of underreporting, erroneous filings, self-prejudicial/harming filings, and more.
BUT, if the government would take a smaller cut and try to live within reasonable means instead of treating the tax-paying public (the honest payers who carry the dishonest ones and the wealthy ones who play games) as an endless pool of revenues, there MIGHT be less cheating.
Sometimes I feel they government ought to quit the charade: Counterfeit money is not much different than government-approved paper. The difference is that we place implicit TRUST in the paper. The government prints ALL kinds of currency and ships it overseas, buries some in safes and bunkers, and spends like there's no tomorrow and manages a mind-boggling array of stats and uses mechanisms to play near-god with the cash flow, yet it STILL forces US, the EARNER to play party with this nutty system that punishes us for not working or not earning a lot, punishes us for earning too much (whether or NOT we pay the right taxes), and lets the crafty play games with the system.
It would be NICE if it were ok to TWICE in your lifetime print your OWN (traceable) emergency money without having to go to a fucking heartless bank that wants your mortgage in exchange for ripoff loans. (When you NEED the money, it's HARD to get; when you DON'T need it, and your credit is A+, it's "Oh, how much do you want/need? Just sign here? See you and Santorini's for a martini?"
Anyway, as long as the money is trackable, the government cou
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