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The European Grand Challenge
An anonymous reader writes "A European version of the DARPA Grand Challenge is being held in Germany next month. Instead of a race through the desert, the EU challenge is split into three events. Urban, non-urban, and landmine detection will be the 'courses', with multiple winners in each event. Interestingly Sebastian Thrun, winner of last year's Challenge, has been forbidden from taking part despite being a European citizen." From the article: "The trials will take place in and around Hammelburg, a mockup of a town used by the German military for training exercises. In the non-urban course the robots will have to contend with a one-kilometer route containing ditches, barbed wire fences, cattle guards, fires, narrow underpasses, and inclines of up to 40 degrees. The urban and landmine 500-meter trials will require the robots to negotiate doorways, stairs, partially collapsed buildings, and poor visibility from smoke or partial lighting. Along the way, they will also have to search for designated objects and report their findings back to base."
I'm disappointed that last challenge didn't involve juggling.
Why keep Sebastian Thrun out? He won the DARPA contest, and even used Volkswagen to do it. Chauvinist ankle biters.
I'm cool like a fool in a swimming p-p-pfft-pool
I guess staying up late getting taxes done and getting ready for Easter is more important than discussing this article.
Change your name to Homer Junior! Your friends can call you Hoju
"semi-autonomous and even remotely operated vehicles can also be entered"
Obviously is still likely to generate some useful stuff, but for me this does take some of the coolness out of it.
In the bigger picture, yurpean countries are really about the same as American States. Same populations, same size, etc. So, while it's technically incorrect to say "european citizens," it's pretty close to "citizens of european countries."
All in all, I'm not sure anyone but you cares.
Will parallel parking be part of the challenge?
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This anonymous post was brought to you by the image-protected passphrase "nether"
Is it just me, or does this smell even more of munitions R&D for the military-industrial complex than DARPA's challenge?
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
In light of this, I've begun working on my European citizenship so that I can enter a remote control car strapped to a camera.
I used to carry a bottle of whiskey for snake bite. And two snakes. -Nefarious Wheel
The Official site
Participants are not as interesting as DARPA most of them are small robots not full sized cars...
Although I would like to watch how those robots will pass the mine field
Visit my site @ http://www.madtorrent.com
Wasn't Hammelburg the town located right next to Stalag 13?
A friend of mine, an officer who is currently serving in the US army in Iraq, came with me to the 2005 DARPA Grand Challenge. His response to the whole event was "Hell, I don't need robots that can go 150 miles. I need robots that can go 100 yards." What he meant was that he wanted a robot capable of going a short distance that could detect/disable IUDs and mines. That's a pretty risky endeavour for a person to do.
The Dude abides.
In English, it's perfectly acceptable to say "European citizen." It's like "mammalian female" or, more appropriately, "anonymous coward." The noun doesn't have any stranglehold on the adjective.
P.S. You're also an arsehole.
Take off every 'sig' !!
I just hope we've got a couple more years until these robots are also required to reproduce...
A little history: Those "Fucking Americans" are citizens of the United States, meaning a collection of independant smaller states working together for the common defense. Except that over the years, those states stood as they watched the federal government power grab and now those states are insignificant compared to the whole.
Fast forward a few years: The European Union is formed, a collection of independant states working together for the common good. Do you honestly think the growth of the EU's authority is going to stop? You're on the exact same path we were dude.
Actually there is in fact such a thing as a European citizenship, or more specifically EU citizenship: http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj/citizen ship/fsj_citizenship_intro_en.htm
Exactly. The concept of European Union citizenship has in fact already been established.
It might as well, the vehicles can be small and also remotely controlled, they dont have to be entirely autonomous like DARPA required.
Regards,
Steve
> Being a native-born German now holding dual U.S. citizenship, in theory, Thrun should have been able to participate, since the rules only state that one must be a European citizen in order to qualify.
Um, in theory, he also doesn't have dual citizenship. At the moment, he aquired the U.S. citizenship, he lost his German citizenship. German law doesn't allow for dual citizenships, except for children, or you can't resign your previous citizenship.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
While like both the darpa and the euro challenges, I also find that they are more a showcase for solving tasks of yesterdays war, with newer and modern toys. So far in warfare, robots are used much like human operated vehicles were used in WWI, for reconnaissance purposes and the fact that they're spending so many resources on maneuvering excersises, is more of a showcase for their limited vision, than the capabilities of robot technology. When they make these big expensive robots for warfare, they forget the primary reason robots are used in the first place; robots are expendable, and partially autonomous.
The last part is where the european challenge at least gets something right. There's no need for fully autonomous vehicles on the battlefield, because the decisions you make on the battlefield require human accountability, when the situation is grave enough to throw away accountability, that's the time you launch the nukes.
So how do we make a robotic system that takes those two benefits into account?
My suggestion would be to use swarming, and standby robots. For instance, if I were to launch a robot air assault, with say 500 human controllers involved, i'd use standard hobbyshop vehicles, with advanced communication, some computing power and a weapon on each, keep it cheap, And i'd use somewhere along the line of 10,000 robots.
The robots can be dropped from a plane, or send off from the ground, the later option will be cheapest the former will have greater range.
The controllers will take control or partial control when they arrive, in early versions full control of a single plane, if there's no available controller, they'll go on standby somewhere close to the battlefield, When a robot goes down, they're allocated a new one from the pool of robots on standby.
In a more advanced scenario the robots would create a 3d representation of the battlefield and the controllers will just point out targets, and possibly hit the fire button (for accountability reasons).
But that's just one version, I think that a cool competition goal would be to design a system that can: Take out targets as fast as possible, as cheap as possible and as reliable as possible (reduce collateral damage), the targets can be anything from target dummies, over vehicles to other robots, in scenarios including regular, urban and guerilla warfare, police assignments and terrorist attacks.
The reason i stop here is that i don't have the vision to go further, not that others should not try to think beyond it.
Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
If just claiming it makes it happen, I hereby proclaim that all slashdotters are citizens of my country "NERDLAND"
....
This citizenship entitles you:
1) Not to be discriminated against, ever, in any shape or form, for any reason, including valid ones.
2) To have an equal chance at getting First Post
3) To have a wild party every Saturday night.
4) And any other vaguely liberal Good Thing
The form of government of NERDLAND shall be Dictatorship, mitigated by assasination (which has been shown to be the most efficient form of government)
NERDLAND has an established Religion - Pastafarianism.
Nerdland will operate strict color segregation, based on the color of the skin round your anus, which is quite similar for all races. Your position in society will depend on how dark this. I expect some interesting sun-tan sessions...
Since you are all now citizens, I will expect you to speak Swedish and change your underpants every hour. They will be worn on the outside
Given the strength of our european military complex and and unity we have shown so far in decisions involving the military PLUS the fact we have agreed upon a satellite system already seems to strengthen one interpretation:
..., Profit!" thing, don't be so upset. Your system is old, we make a more modern version. You can rent it, too!
It is not about shooting around throughout the world, but about plain civilian money-making:
- Make the farmer pay for a high-resolution navigation aid for his tractor (not jammed by some cowboys upon their liking)
- Squeeze even more money out of hauling companies (our Autobahns are getting quite crowded with trucks)
- $you_name_your_business_idea
Hey Americans! Got an idea for a high-reliable sat nav system? We could make you an offer!
Come on, you all know the "Idea,
And be assured, we will show the same navel-gazing in the next decades, you can easily remain the problem-solver and regime-fixer!
Except that unlike the EU, Nerdland has no power to enforce those things.
It is a good thing, the idea of a US state type system for the EU is the only way I can see the EU countries remaining world powers. Of course, I don't like how the EU's centre is in a basically Gallic country, but ... eh.
How long before landmine manufacturers create "intercepting" mobile, robotic mines that stay dormant, hidden aside the path to avoid detection but run under your feet when they sense movement?
... it would be like multiplying your number of soldiers, only with less logistics, with less needed space for their transport, ... you get the picture.
Or, antivehicle mines that wait for front anti-mine roller or dozer knife to pass, then roll between front and back wheels of a truck, or attack the tank caterpillars, or the bottom of the tank (probably the least armored side of the tank, beeing least exposed)?
Or, robotic RPG launcher that can be in ambush anywhere in vicinity of the road?
I'm not sure it will be easy to spot by its enemy brethen limited sensory capabilities. When talking anbout small, cheap, expendable, then attackers (those who initiate clashes) are in better position then defenders.
Overall, it seems that weaker, lo-intensity warfare (guerilla, terrorists, whatever) side gets more edge from robotic warfare then superarmies do. With landfills full of harvestable junk (old office equipment with steppers, cars full of servos), improvised "smart killing machines" are a sort of 21st century "molotov cocktail".
It may start to be so perhaps soon (right now, the war is mostly in parts of the world where combatants don't seem to care for their lives, but it may change) and would remain to be so until weapons' industry kicks in and starts to understand the change of landscape - present fat pay it rips of military should be thing of the past. Weaponry that is "expendable" must not be too pricey (after all, it is not like it has to sustain lives of the crew). Ideally, it should cost less in work hours (in terms of worker*TIME, not MONEY) then forementioned hypothetical "scrapyard challenge" autonomous (or RC) one-shot robots.
I suggest they make small universal mobile "eye, hand and shoulder" platform that could carry any personal weapon and establish "system of fire", cover with fire the movement of troops on the field, lay in ambush,
That's really not fair!
I mean HE is the winner of the DARPA GC, so why could they have denied the participation?
When he is a German citizen (at least his car is German I believe) and the money that helped his team winning is coming from Volkswagen: Where is the problem?
I wonder why the journalist did not ask the organiser or the Chief Judge about it?
Would have been a good opportunity to clear things up, wouldn't it?
--Michel
Yes, it was. A real town, or at least used to be.
Joshua J. Kugler