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DRM Lite for Electronic Textbooks

bcrowell writes "The New York Times reports that textbook publishers are backing off somewhat on the level of DRM used in the electronic editions of their textbooks. They no longer become unreadable after a certain amount of time, as in RMS's famous essay The Right to Read. Even so, most students aren't interested, because the books can't be sold back; the solution, however, may be to make it impossible to return printed books either. No mention in the NYT article of the steady progress being made by free books."

25 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. Like New by foundme · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think one of the reasons why publishers see ebooks as more threatening to their industry than the paper books is because ebooks will always be in "Like New" condition, thus it can be traded in the 2nd hand market at very close to the retail price.

    And even with a slight price difference, (poor) students will always be more inclined to purchase the used-but-as-good-as-new ebooks.

    --
    Please stop entering code 2,2,7,6,6,4
    1. Re:Like New by badasscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think one of the reasons why publishers see ebooks as more threatening to their industry than the paper books is because ebooks will always be in "Like New" condition, thus it can be traded in the 2nd hand market at very close to the retail price.

      Someone has apparently never been to college! (At least not in the United States...)

      Most college students purposely buy used books not just because they're cheaper (though that is a reason) but also because all of the important passages have already been highlighted and in many cases, answers to common questions or other notes written in the margins. They're like cheat sheets. If you're lucky, you get a book from a student that had the same professor as you, and then it's practically like getting the answers to every test.

      This is a huge disadvantage to ebooks or other digital media in a specific situation like this. Students don't buy books for that "new book smell". They buy them a) to learn, and b) to get better grades. A new book or ebook does not help anyone get better grades. Used books can and usually do.

    2. Re:Like New by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not true.l The reason I, and everyone I know, bought used books was price. Without price I prefered new ones, because they DIDN'T have markings- the previous owner tended to be a moron way more than not.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  2. Sorry publishers. by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry publishers, the future of education is free.

    (at least you have entertainment to fall back on)

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:Sorry publishers. by Ozwald · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, free education is today. Sure, not here, but just a short raft ride from Forida and you don't pay a cent! No tuition! Free books! Even living is cheap, just pennies a day!

      The thread is insane. It's like that spouse swap where they take two disfunctional families and swap the mother. Both families are screwed up but somewhere in the center is a happy median that's not so bad. But if you think that publishers will eventually say "you're right, we should give it away for free", you're absolutely mad. If writers had to work for free, I'm sure they'd prefer fishing.

      On the other side of disfunctional is the professors who insist we buy $100 books that they don't even use. The first couple years of school is always about learning to wait a week to find out what books are actually required and hunt the used book store when they are. But telling the poorest population of a school to squeeze out that extra couple hundred bucks for crap is just cruel.

      In the middle is somewhere normal. That's the key to this problem, not the overgeneralized ignorant comments like above.

  3. As a college student... by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...I refuse to buy electronic textbooks until they have zero DRM whatsoever. In addition, I don't even buy regular textbooks unless the professor actually uses them for graded assignments. They're just too damn expensive to do otherwise!

    More universities need to make things like MIT's OpenCourseWare, or better yet, work together to make one big system.

    Also, The Right to Read is a great story -- and is becoming more real every day. Everyone ought to read it, because it doesn't just apply to textbooks, it applies to music, movies, and other media too. Pay special attention to the notes at the end; the summary of the current trends towards DRM is downright scary!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    1. Re:As a college student... by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Why do they keep requiring new editions when there are plenty of old ones on the used market?
      I read all the replies to your question and no one mentioned this: Publishers give out the teacher's edition for free.

      My understanding of the process is that the publisher sends professors a free copy of the new edition during the year, the prof looks at it, decides it isn't worse than the old version and when the time comes, the prof tells the bookstore what to order for the next year.

      Alternatively, the teacher's edition shows up (for free) at the school when they order the new edition. Now, if your text books are selected by a committee... sucks for your professor(s), but it's more than likely that they still don't ever see a price tag.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:As a college student... by belmolis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been a faculty member for twenty-five years and I've never heard of such a practice. The professor has no business doing that. You should have filed a complaint with the administration.

    3. Re:As a college student... by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1) enter a photocopy (or just the answers on filepaper) 2)a if it's accepted, no problem 2)b if it's rejected complain to exam board that you got zero marks on an assignment for not owning a specific textbook rather than not doing the work (hand a copy of your answers in to your tutor when you hand them in to the lecturer so they have a record that you did the work and did it by the deadline) 3)a if the exam board agrees watch your marks get reinstated and the lecturer get a rollocking 3)b if the exam board supports the lecturer, sue. As another poster said, lecturers have no business requiring you to use original perforated sheets which are only available in expensive textbooks. They also have no business setting problems from the textbook as assessed questions (not least because it means that the answers are freely available either in the solution book, the back of the textbook that the questions are in, or from a student from last year who has the model solutions)

      --
      FGD 135
  4. Stupid. by deep44 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ebook publishers should have their heads examined for going to such great lengths to inconvenience potential customers like this.. with books, the "analog hole" is a very easy and viable workaround for just about any form of DRM they can dream up. I know the article says they are backing off a bit.. but even so - it's pure lunacy.

    Personally, I won't pay a dime for an ebook in any format other than PDF (or an alternative that I can view/print/copy in Linux). If they insist on using a format that can only be viewed in Windows, I'll hang on to my money and snag a "cracked" version online (even if that means downloading a jpeg image of each page; I have a couple books like that!).

    Bottom line: the people who don't want to pay will find a way not to. The people who do pay will start thinking twice before their next purchase, since they're basically paying to be inconvenienced.

  5. Returning text books by scolby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I graduated college last August, and I don't remember returning text books to the bookstore as a particularly exciting time - more often than not, I'd only get maybe $10-20 back on a book that cost me $100 at the beginning of the semester - and then a semester later, I'd see that same title on the shelf, being sold used for $80. The only people excited about book buybacks are the bookstores that can exploit them.

    So I don't really see how the ability to return books is a big reason why readers prefer physical books over ebooks.

    1. Re:Returning text books by rollingcalf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Selling it back to the bookstore is a ripoff.

      What I would do is try to sell my books to another student, so they'd get it cheaper than buying it used from the bookstore, and I'd get more for it than selling it back to the bookstore.

      I aced one math class using a twenty-year-old textbook. Luckily the prof didn't require graded assignments from the book.

      Except for certain computer-based classes like Numerical Analysis, undergrad-level math hasn't changed in the past 100 years, so there really is no need to have more than one freakin' edition of an undergraduate textbook (other than the profits of the publishers and authors).

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
  6. Why I don't use them by Biolermaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is harder to lay back and read my laptop than a traditional text book. Until an electronic form comes out that is easy to lay in bed with and read for 30 minutes with shining a light in a face I will never use ebooks.

    1. Re:Why I don't use them by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're just trying to be 'totally modern.' Here's a hint:

      There are and always will be just scads and scads of good material published in the past that nobody takes the time to digitize.

      Most of the 'paperless office' flakes in business have dried up and blown away. Thank goodness, though I do hate the chore of swamping out all the paper debris from my cubicle. I'd hate it more if the IT 'tards could discard important stuff at will because it was 'captive' on their lousy Windows servers.

  7. Basic textbooks should be free and electronic by Catbeller · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Basic textbooks for K-12 courses should be electronic and free. Mathematics, reading primers, languages... such things don't need new books every year. Schools are bankrupting themselves trying to keep up with buying uselessly new books.

    And I am aware there are open source style e-textbooks becoming available, and more power to them.

    People always ask why there should be cheap, low power ebook readers. This is why. The world needs them to teach its children without popping for several thousands of dollars per student to enrich paper mills and book publishers. And there's the small matter of losing our forests to this idiocy. Global warming is caused by an overabundance of CO2; the solution is TREES, as many as we can plant. That, and not killing the microplants living on the surface of the world's oceans, which produce half of the photsynthesis activity, but I digress.

    But we're cutting more down every year. More parking lots, more gated communities, more cattle grazing lands, nore and more books and newspapers and magazines and laser printer paper. We need green growing things, STAT. And ebooks. Screw the market, some things are more important than making Bill Gates or whomever is used to making money even richer. Mandate the things by law. We need to start making a lot of things mandatory by law with a view to surviving the upcoming weather changes.

    We've no problem with volunteering our troops or people in other countries to die as a sacrifice. Will we even volunteer a small a thing as giving up our paper books to save the world, or is that too much for our hidebound conservative asses?

  8. High cost of books? by fermion · · Score: 3, Insightful
    First, I really wonder why everyone complians that books cost too much. A general audience hardback book is $20. A DVD, which has a much lower cost to press, is $15. Is the book really that expensive?

    Second, when one thinks of a text or referece book, this represents an incredible amount of effort on the part of the writers and editors. Gettting everything right is hard. For examples, the cheaper computer books are full of significant errors and misprints. Even reilly has a tough time getting it perfect, and these are often mid priced books. I am just now reading a Ruby book from them and in the first few pages is a passage that is either awkwardly presented, or an example is missing. Sure, if I am just reading it for fun that is acceptable, but since I tend to be somewhat serious in my computer stuff, I want the real things. So I have little problem paying more for something that is correct. When I was working computers, $80 for a good book was nothing compared to what is saved me on my jobs.

    Now as far as school is concerned there are three issues. First, the writers have to be paid. These are often proffesors that have a skill of writing things down in such a way that a student has a good chance of understanding what is going on. They also provide relevent problem sets with solutions. The publisher has to be paid, without whom we would not have a book, as someone probably had to front some money. We also need a store, so publishers can ship limited quantities of books to certain well known locations for students to buy.

    Now, here is the rub. College textbooks are not neccesarily that expensive. As has mentioned, at least some of the books can be bought used and sold, whcih means that any one book, at least at the lower levels, is unlikely going to cost more than $50. Second, books can be shared. Find someone in to go halfsies. And third, I had very few proffesors that actually demanded and checked we had the most recent version of the book.

    So, what can be done. I think the publisher should sell electronic versions of the books that expire after one year. The books should be 1/3 the cost of the orignal book. Second, the univsersity should be able to buy an affordable site license to the book so that it can be read on any library computer. Finally, the reissuing of books for the purpose of stopping reselling must be halted, though this may not be such a big issue as with reselling no student will be stuck with more than half the cost.

    My gut feeling is that most of this has more to do with the expectation of the student rather than the cost of the books. Books represent an opportunity cost to most people, not an investment. I think when someone buys a book, they are thinking of the beer that they cannot afford. OTOH, when someone buy a bag of chips and a coke every day for a week, they do not think of the book they could have bought. School is about education, and sometimes we have to give something up to become educated. On problem I see with the modern compulsary public educational system is that they parent and kids expect everything to be given to them. Clothes, books, supplies, transportation. Now some of this is appropriate, and much is needded. However to be educated one needs to begin to take some responsibility and sacrifice at leat a little. If that measn that a student does not get a new clothes, or a car, or even prefered meal, perhaps at the college level that is ok.

    One last thing. Some of the increase in books relate to student needs. For instance when i was in college, the Physics textbook transitions from a simple black and white print with line drawing. This was a cheap book to produce, and for the amount of information was very reasonable priced. However, presumable due the MTV generation, it became a much more expensive book with color drawing, color photos, and the like. There was no more physics in it, no better teaching, just fancier and more expensive graphics. Go figure. Students paid more money and perhaps sacrificed education for glitz.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:High cost of books? by almostmanda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cost to press isn't as important as cost to make. Your average Hollywood blockbuster costs a whole lot more to cast, shoot, edit, and distribute than a textbook, especally a tenth edition textbook that is 97% old material.

      When did you go to college? Most textbooks come out with new editions every 2-3 years. This means that, on average, two of my classes require a NEW $140 textbook every semester that will immediately drop to $70 resale the minute I leave the bookstore. Even if a class doesn't require a new edition, they'll ask me to buy 3-4 older books that total well over $50. Sharing textbooks is completely impractical, especially in math classes with nightly homework. In additon, the older editions tend to have the same material, but it's always shuffled around and the homework problems are changed to ensure I can't get by with last year's book.

      Your point about "making sacrifices" is just ridiculous. Are you really under the assumption that everyone attending college HAS the choice between textbooks and a car, or textbooks and new clothes? Some of us don't HAVE those luxuries to "sacrifice" in order to be able to afford astronomical books. Textbooks are not an "investment." If textbooks were truly an "investment" they wouldn't immediately lose half their value as soon as I crack them open. This is an artificially inflated cost.

      As for your last point, I don't see how it is the fault of the STUDENTS that publishers stuff their textbooks with pretty graphs, "interactive" CDs that NO ONE ever uses, color photos, nice paper, etc. I'd gladly revert back to text and black-and-white photos if it meant cheaper books, and I am guessing 99% of college students feel exactly the same way. WE didn't demand books that look super nice; the publishers just threw that stuff in to justify charging more.

      Your arguments just seem to be telling me that I have cheaper alternatives, and choices in the matter, when none exist. I shop around to find the best deals for my books, and still end up with $500-$600 worth of books to buy every single semester, that sell back for about half as much (of the ones that sell back at all--many end up listed for $10 at half.com). Books don't lose anything after someone reads them, so there is absolutely no reason for such a sharp change in retail value and resale value. It's purely publishers and bookstores ripping me off at every turn, and despite your claims of "choosing" glitzy textbooks and "choosing" more expensive textbooks that have fewer mistakes, I don't have a choice in the matter.

  9. Not even numerical analysis. by twitter · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Except for certain computer-based classes like Numerical Analysis, undergrad-level math hasn't changed in the past 100 years

    Even that has not changed much in 30 years. Fortran 77 is still used and the techniques are the same as they were when Newton and then Coates thought them up. The thing that has changed is the maturation of GNU tools and the availability of great numerical packages like the Fastest Fourier Transforms in the West. A text on the subject should contain a chapter of practical free computing, but this has little to do with the principles involved.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  10. 10% goes to researchers? by wpegden · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From the Right to Read article:
    He understood this situation; he himself had had to borrow to pay for all the research papers he read. (10% of those fees went to the researchers who wrote the papers; since Dan aimed for an academic career, he could hope that his own research papers, if frequently referenced, would bring in enough to repay this loan.)
    Since when do royalties get paid for Academic papers? They don't. In fact, scientists/mathematicians also volunteer their time to peer-review articles that appear in journals... did you think journals paid to get articles reviewed? They don't. They assume the copyright, and print copies of the journal which they sell to institutions for hundreds of dollars. They don't even really do much typesetting anymore, thanks to LATEX. Even before the takeover of DRM, the crisis has already begun---simply because profits are the driving force between anything run by a business. And, like it or not, it is not always true that profits=progress.
  11. Re:As a college professor.... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe you ought to try making your own lecture notes and slides available, and not teach from a book at all. As a college student, that's the kind of class I prefer!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  12. Re-sell a new unlock key by mikesd81 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When you get the e-book, then you have unlock it with a key and send it electronically. If for some reason you need to re-unlock it and you still own it you should have to confirm who you are somehow. Secret answer to a question or a secret hand shake whatever. Then when you re-sell the book to a new student, they call up and get a new key and their secret handshake, etc.

    --
    That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
  13. Impossible to sell by .com+b4+.storm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hate to break it to you, but it's pretty much impossible to sell back printed books already. Between the departments and the publishers, they do a good job of making the books very difficult to sell back (either by obsoleting them rapidly, or by making the books degrade rapidly through even casual use, destroying their value). Even selling my books online only gets rid of around 25% of the books I've bought, and always at a huge loss.

    For example, I bought an art history text book for $120(!). This was a brand new book, and its first semester in use at my school. Partway through that semester, the department decided they did not want to use the book anymore. Not only did we not use the book for anything in class or for homework, but nobody wanted to buy it - the university bookstore would of course not take it, and nobody else seemed to want it. I finally sold the book 3 years later, at like-new condition, on Half.com for a whopping $10!

    It's only getting worse, as well. Publishers often make the textbooks incredibly flimsy, especially for classes with huge enrollment stats (read: 101 level electives in science and the like). My geology textbook, although uncharacteristically well-written and enjoyable to read, is very poorly constructed. The glossy pages get creased, folded, and torn with just the slightest page-flip, and the binding is already falling apart after light home use (I don't take it to campus). Very scary how much damage has been done to my book, considering how I go out of my way to treat all my books with care.

    It's pretty obvious that many of these books are purposely designed to last barely the 16 weeks of one semester, to ensure that they are less appealing for second-hand sales.

    All in all, a very disgusting racket. The university and the publishers work together to screw students at every turn. No surprises here, but things are definitely not getting any better...

    --
    "Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
    -- Ryan Stiles
  14. ahh the US textbook issue by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    as a british student i've never really understood it.

    can't your lecturers be bothered to provide sufficiant supporting rescources with thier courses?!

    i'm coming to the end of my second year doing electronic systems engineering in the uk and so far my textbook count stands at

    bought: 0
    borrowed from my tutor: 1
    borrowed from the library: about 4 or 5 not sure exactly

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  15. Re:Impossible to return physical books? Won't happ by wpegden · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Neither teachers nor students choose books. State boards choose books. Lies My Teacher Told Me is an excellent book for people interested in the world of textbook politics. (The book focuses on American History textbooks, but many of its points apply to others: biology, etc.)

  16. Article completely misses the point on prices. by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You wan't to lower prices of textbooks, don't let professors teach the books they have written or edited. Or, if they want to use them they have to make them available to their students in electronic form for what their royalty on the individual sale would be.

    Ask yourself this how many chemistry 101 texts do you actually need ? Pascal plus data structures, algorithmic complexity ? Electricity and magnetism ? Strength of materials ? These are subjects that have been done to death !!! What you have is a captive market in students, and professors looking to supplement their income.

    Textbooks should be the cheapest books of a type you can by. The traditional markup on a paperback book is between 400 and 500 percent hardbacks are similar. The reason for this is that its hard to predict winners and books that dont sell are destroyed in mass. The process is called striping, the covers are removed from books and mailed back to the publisher. The reason books are stripped is because the publisher doesn't think it worth the shipping cost to have the book back.

    Textbooks don't have the problems of regular books. A publisher knows in advance exactly how many books to print within a few percent. The bookseller if they know the books are going to be used next term can just keep them and adjust their order accordingly.

    The only reason textbooks are pricey is that STUDENTS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY THEM and that publishers are willing to bribe professors to get their books used.

    Just Compare the price of a schaums guide on a subject to the cost of the textbook.