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The Time for Women in Games

VeeCee writes "Next Generation has an interesting article on why few women are game developers, why it should change, and how." From the article: "Fulton then cited workforce statistics, showing that in 1950, 30 percent of women worked, compared with 70 percent six years ago. 'We're rapidly becoming equal players in the larger workforce. More women are playing games.' Citing a study that showed women outnumbered men as players in the 24 to 35 year-old demographic, Fulton granted that casual games were a factor. 'However I think there's an appetite there. As we get online, as the games start getting more interactive, more social, women are getting more and more interested in what it means to play games.'"

17 of 96 comments (clear)

  1. Perception by foundme · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think in more developed countries, game-playing women are perceived as nerds, hence reducing their chances of finding mates.

    In less developed countries, game-playing women are perceived as lazy, hence reducing their chances of finding mates.

    Honestly, I'm surprised Ms Fulton titled her keynote "The Best Defense... Why Gender Doesn't Matter (As Much As You Might Think)". If gender really doesn't matter, then why would the general public care of 10% or 99% of the game developers are female?

    --
    Please stop entering code 2,2,7,6,6,4
  2. Girls aren't interested in programming by SpecialAgentXXX · · Score: 3, Funny

    I should know. I'm sitting in an office full of men. The only women we've hired were for Sales & Marketing, booth babes, etc. Haha, reminds me of when college recruiters came to my all-boys high school and didn't know it was single-sex. "Oh, it's only guys here. Great! You'll feel just at home in our CompSci classes." It was right then and there I decided not to major in I.T.

    1. Re:Girls aren't interested in programming by stanwirth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The little light-bulb went on for a friend of mine when his sister with a Ph.D in computational physics was hired by a high-end as "a fukin' booth-babe! A Demo Dame! What kinda sh** is that?!" as he'd say with considerable outrage in his voice. And quite right too -- when you help put your sister through the best schools, she gets the degrees and demonstrates the prowess and formulates important (physics/math) problems and writes the code and brings in the grants and gets the postdocs and --- then the best job she can get is basically not much better than a conventioneer's whore -- not only do you start to wonder why the hell you and she bothered, but your family is humiliated and if she doesn't like being a booth babe, she can bloody well quit and go on welfare. If she has kids, she'll be outright fired and wind up on welfare. with a PhD.

      That's what it was like 15-20 years ago. Which is why you just don't see any ongoing culture of technical women aged 35-65, and certainly few mentors beyond a few managers who specialize in managing not code-writing, these days. It's why the percentage of women in many fields actually declined despite tons of programs to promote their participation -- they knew how they'd be treated in an all-male environment: like a mother to be fired, or a whore to be used and then fired. Better off going to nursing school.

    2. Re:Girls aren't interested in programming by Hannah+E.+Davis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm the only female programmer (technically just a co-op, but I'm on a work term as a programmer) at a small game company, but we're still just a startup, and quite honestly, I generally don't even notice that I'm in the minority unless somebody points it out.

      I obviously can't speak for other girls, but I'm in this field because I like it. I get to dress casually (long skirts, tall socks, and comfy shoes!), play with code, and game or read Slashdot during breaks. I won't claim to be a particularly good coder -- hey, I'm still a student here -- but I've never found myself thinking that having a little something extra between my legs would make my job faster or easier.

      It does, however, irk me when people (not you specifically, but far too many others) repeatedly bemoan or otherwise find occasion to rant about how few women there are in IT. If more women want to get into the field, they're welcome, but going on and on about how terrible it is for us poor little girls who actually have to *gasp* work with or even *double gasp* talk to male colleagues is just going to scare people of both genders away. Why not just shut up about it? Why not just let people choose what they want to do and leave them to it? A few more pairs of breasts around the office may be a welcome sight to the average guy, but if the girls don't want to be there, maybe they shouldn't be.

    3. Re:Girls aren't interested in programming by Malkin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh. Mah. Gawd. We aren't interested in programming? What have I been doing with my life? I knew I should've become a hairdresser! Maybe it's not too late! Somebody get me the number for the nearest cosmetology school! Why, here I was, all about to accept another game programming job offer, when I could be perming hair! What was I thinking!?!

  3. Brenda Laurel, bring back Purple Moon! by spun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The time is finally right for a female-centric game company. Don't know who Brenda Laurel is? You should. The woman is a freakin' genius and a pioneer in the field of human-computer interaction.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Brenda Laurel, bring back Purple Moon! by Hakubi_Washu · · Score: 2, Informative

      I tend to think Roberta Williams is more of a pioneer here. "King's Quest"? The founding of "Sierra"?

    2. Re:Brenda Laurel, bring back Purple Moon! by spun · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, hells yeah. When I was a kid and played her games I always fantasized about marrying a geek chic like her. Roberta was more influential in gaming, but she didn't write particularly girl friendly games. Blue Moon, Brenda's game design company, wrote games (maybe only 'a game,' I can't remember) with a social interactive slant that was aimed at girls. But besides that, Roberta is a fairly talented but mostly self taught game programmer while Brenda is a genius computer scientist who has researched some very deep issues that impact nearly all areas of computing. She wrote a book analyzing computer-human interaction in terms of Aristotle's Poetics that I would consider an absolute must read for any UI designer.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  4. Casual means casual by Lewisham · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That statistic is BS. Sure, I watch girls play games all the time. They play Sudoku, Solitare, FreeCell. They like puzzle games, and that's cool. But it's almost always going to be on a casual basis.

    Being casual does not make you that bothered. I ride bicycles, but I don't want to be a bicycle engineer. I would even say I love cars, but I don't care about their engines past how loud they are and how fast they can go. That's a casual relationship too.

    Why would girls who play Sudoku care in any way shape or form about programming Sudoku games?

    We can run around these circles all day about why girls play games or why they don't, why they program or why they don't, but the end result is the same. Unless someone can fundamentally change the nature of programming, or indeed, development, they aren't going to do it.

    I have stopped caring about how many girls play games or how many girls develop games. It's not a big deal.

  5. True equality requires complete equality by Distinguished+Hero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder why we never hear people complaing that women are not 50% of the criminal "workforce".

    From the UK: "Men outnumber women in all major crime categories. Between 85 and 95 per cent of offenders found guilty of burglary, robbery, drug offences, criminal damage or violence against the person are male. Although the number of offenders are relatively small, 98 per cent of people found guilty of, or cautioned for, sexual offences are male"

    Or how about garbagemen (garbagepeople) or coal miners? Why are people never concerned about women not making headways there?

    Riddle me that, Batman.

    --
    Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
    1. Re:True equality requires complete equality by onkelonkel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an interesting exercise, let us substitute $men for $women and $female_dominated_profession for $male_dominated profession. Example: nursing for engineering, and lets see how the rhetoric sounds.

      "It is self-evident that the low number of men in nursing is the result of systematic discrimination against men by the sexist women who dominate the profession. Without affirmative action, the entrenched and dominant female hierarchy will never allow men to compete as equals. Hospitals should stop hiring female nurses until the number of men and women working in the profession are the same."

      Does that sound odd to you?

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  6. Re:What's your point? by Distinguished+Hero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My one question is this: why is it always an assumed premise that if there's a statistic in which girls or boys are over-represented:
    1. it's automatially a bad thing
    2. it's automatically a bad thing for girls


    Not true. Nobody seems to be concerned that men outnumber women in suicides (in developed countries, with the exception of Chine -- if you count them as developed), or that men outnumber women as drug users, or that most of the people in jail are men, or that most garbagemen (garbagepeople, sorry) are men, or that most coal miners (or any other crap job) are men. If only there was some sort of conclusion we could draw from all of this...

    --
    Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
  7. Business Situation by McD!ck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I work for a rather large software company, and I am one of the many engineers. In the 6 years I have worked here I have worked with a total of 3 women. Most of them were VERY competent programmers. In contrast I cannot count how many men I have worked with, sure enough the number would be in the hundreds.

    Back in college (6 years ago), we had similar ratios in all the CS classes, and even in the upper division physics classes. However, my upper division social classes were DOMINATED by women.

    I don't want to sound sexist or mysognistic, but I don't think we need more women in engineering any more than we need more male social workers. I think we need more people doing exactly what they want to do; if that fits a pattern, so be it; just as long as we don't restrict people from being in any profession.

    McD

    --
    People who are against human cloning must be bitter they are not good enough to be cloned.
  8. Did anyone else read it as... by Bieeanda · · Score: 2, Funny
    "That time for women in games" and shudder at the implications?

    "Lara, you're going to have to swim through this shark infested water to get to the next ruin."
    "I certainly hope not. Blood attracts sharks quicker than anything else."
    "My god, you're injured? Don't you have any medical kits l-- oh."
    <icily>"Quite."

  9. I know a lot of female gamers... by kria · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know a lot of female gamers, but maybe that's because I am one. Programmer, too. But I'm a slight anomoly - most of the women gamers I know are tabletop gamers, while I play both, in nearly even amounts. So for players, I can buy the viewpoint that far too many games drive away women with big boobs and scanty costumes. Female armor in most MMORPGs, for example, tends to get a lot of jokes, just like really bad fantasy novel covers.

    Regarding women as programmers, I think that there are two things to consider:
    a) programmers are geeky and particularly at the moment, teenagers frown on people being smart, as the opposite of cool. Women tend to be more socially aware (or socially malleable) than their male counterparts in high school, so while they may quietly get good grades, they probably won't choose a geeky path like CS in college.

    b) there are still, believe it or not, teachers who discourage women from fields related to math or science. I was lucky enough not to have that problem in high school (now a fading ten years in the past), but I have heard plenty of first hand stories on the subject.

  10. The problem lies elsewhere by hanako · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The mainstream games industry sucks. What sane person would want to be trapped in there?

    So girls aren't keen to join? That's probably because they have too much SENSE to join the world of perpetual crunch time and all the other misery we always hear about. :)

    Girls who love mainstream games are perfectly capable of getting in there themselves. There's no point in trying to force others into it. I'm a female game designer and programmer and I would be thoroughly MISERABLE if you tried to hire me to work on your FPS.

    The problem comes earlier, really. The problem, as I see it, lies in schools and preconceptions. I've been in plenty of places with girl gamers who think games are cool - but have been conditioned to believe that programming is really hard and impossible to understand and they couldn't possibly do it, so they will never try. Even though there are tons of tools out there to make programming easier and help newbies make at least small, crap games with very little experience necessary. The girls are too convinced that programming is beyond them to even LOOK for tools. So they just sit around and talk about games that "it would be cool if someone made" rather than doing anything about it themselves.

    Do any high schools bother teaching simple interactive creation tools like Flash? Show more little girls that they can MAKE something cool if they just TRY and a couple more of them might come and join me. :)