Slashdot Mirror
Australians to Get Compulsory Photo ID Smartcard
syousef writes "The Sydney morning herald reports that a new national ID card will be issued in Australia."From 2010 people will not be able to receive government health and welfare payments without a card. People may choose to have other information stored on the card, such as health and emergency contact details which, for example, ambulance officers could use.". Your papers please."
This is a seriously rediculous statement. I understand the need for privacy, however I don't see how this is any more invasive than requiring a drivers license or a state ID or a passport to get certain benefits as well.
There is good reason for requiring identification for certain benefits to ensure that people don't abuse the system. As of right now, the USA doesn't have a "national ID card", however a drivers license is close enough. Police from any state can take your license and request all of your information.
This system not only simplifies that process, but allows you OPTIONALLY to put in more health and contact information to benefit you if you run into problems.
Passports, State ID Cards, Licenses, are all essentially the same thing. What the hell is the problem?
I've debated other Libertarians on this issue, and the main point they can not refute is, "So what?"
In nearly all 50 of these United States, you are required to carry some form of ID, usually a driver's license. Once you cross state lines, your ID is no longer familiar to those who may want to look at it (airport ticket counter, liquor store cashier, hotel clerk, police officer, EMT) and thus becomes easier to forge. A national ID instead of 50 differnt state ID's could help prevent this sort of thing and make absolutely no difference people's lives, as we are all required to carry a state ID already.
I've carried a state ID for over 20 years, and I've never had anyone ask to see my papers.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
We much prefer the American system, where if you get sick, the choice is
i) mortgage yourself in penury
ii) or die.
The funny thing is, can you imagine if passports were a new idea? Just think of the outraged slashdotters that would vent their fury on a scaremongering story entitled "New Compulsory Photo ID required just to leave the country".
Or Driving Licenses: "New Compulsory Photo ID required just to operate vehicles!"
Oh, The Huge Manatee!
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Excellent. After living in Australia for 6 years I've moved back to NZ. Whilst we do occasionally do ridiculous things wrt environmental issues, our general method of governance is much much `pre-9-11' (as people say ^_^). Maybe that's because we're an outdated backwater; but whatever the reason, at least we avoid lunacy like this. In case anybody doesn't know by now, we have also effectively banned any US ship from entering out waters (although how we do that is not something I agree with; we are `nuclear free' which, although prevents any US ship from visiting, also means we are nuclear free).
NZ is sort of like Amiga OS (or perhaps I should say *BSD? ^_~)... secure and free mostly by obfuscation and isolation =^_^=.
The Shoes of the Fisherman's Wife Are Some Jive Ass Slippers
I don't know the half of how 'papers' work
Most european nations have had what you americans would call "ID cards" for decades if not centuries. Actually, they are not called ID cards, but passports. That's a bit confusing because you probably consider a passport something for travel, whereas in most of europe, you have a second (and slightly different) passport for that.
Most europeans don't consider national ID cards (let's stick to that terminology) evil in any way and wonder why you americans make such a big issue of it. We've had them for as long as anyone can remember.
And yes, in some european countries it is mandatory to have your ID card with you when you leave the house. I don't think you'll be arrested for not having it, at least I've never heard of that happening after WW2.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The only answer that comes to my mind is "Crime". And I'm all for a government cutting that down.
The French Resistance were 'criminals' under the laws of the Vichy regime during WWII.
Nelson Mandela was a 'criminal' under the laws of Apartheid South Africa.
Do I really need to go on?
The fear in the USA is more related to a strong national government taking full control. We have, for longer than our federal government has even existed, taken great pleasure in being a confederation of states and not a single government with political subdivisions called "states." I don't know how Australian federalism (if such a thing exists there) works, so I don't know if the same fear makes sense there. Remember, our nation's constitution was strongly opposed at first and nearly was not ratified because of exactly the same fear.
Most Americans proudly carry an ID card issued by their state of residence, and are happy that full faith and credit must be given to it in other states within the USA. However, many of us dislike one or more of the following:
1. Mandatory carrying of identification documents and mandatory production of them to police when the police have no probable cause to make an arrest. See the Hiibel case that was decided in our Supreme Court not that long ago - a Nevada man was arrested for refusing to identify himself under a Nevada state law requiring him to do so when the policeman made what is known as a Terry stop, meaning one where you have reasonable suspicion (but not probable cause) that a crime is being committed and can confront the suspect about it to give him a chance to either dispel your suspicion or confirm it. The Supreme Court basically said that the law was just fine, but largely because it allowed you to identify yourself just by stating your name to the officer and not producing any documentation of who you are.
2. National ID. The US Constitution does not provide for this. I can see an argument for the federal spending power to allow Congress to condition certain expenditures on the condition that the recipients have a national ID card, but even that argument is on shaky ground.
3. Biometric information on ID cards. A photo and a signature, plus a holograph to show that it's state-issued, is all we want.
4. RFID and the like in ID cards. We do not want our ID to be "visible" to the government without us showing it to them. It's not that we have an evil government - it's that things like this make it easy for an evil government to thrive if it comes to exist.