Slashdot Mirror
U.S. Government Moves To Dismiss EFF Case
iny0urbrain writes "The New York Times reports that the US government has asked a federal judge to dismiss the Electronic Frontier Foundation's civil liberties lawsuit against the AT&T Corporation because 'of a possibility that military and state secrets would otherwise be disclosed.' The statement concludes by saying: 'Finally, because the United States intends to assert the state secrets privilege and file a dispositive motion to dismiss this action, the United States requests that discovery proceedings be deferred until the government's submission has been considered and heard.' You can view the full text of the government's statement of interest (PDF) on the EFF's website." Sorry, hadn't had my coffee yet this morning, and double posted this one. Sadly, the first one is a mere two stories down. It's also still pouring into the submissions bin, so I'm not the only one not yet awake.
And the original is only two stories below this one...
I honestly believe we are highly hipocritical on this subject. We all watch movies like True Lies where the one guy asks, "get me a wiretap on ...", the other goes "Are you crazy? Thats illegal!!" and he responds by saying "And we do it 20 times a day! Now do it!". We watch 24 where the guy does everything in his power to get the information he wants. Then we find out, "Oh Me Oh My! The NSA really DOES spy! I'm Outraged!". We should honestly pick a position. We should stop glamorizing clandestine observation and instead demonize it, or we should accept the fact that there are some things we just don't want to know about in the intelligence world.
I do security
How many cases against the government is the EFF running at the moment, and why is the government using the same "national security" excuse for all of them? On the other hand, I guess the "national security" excuse has worked pretty damn well in the past. It worked for billions of dollars spent on a war...
The security of the Motherland outweighs any and all privacy concerns.
--Brought to you by the Republican Proletariat.
What a load of rubbish.
Either you're trolling, or you have great difficulty distinguishing between reality and entertainment. Just because something is entertaining does not mean that it is something that is agreed with. These are two completely separate things.
How would you react to the fact that some people watch V for Vendetta, 24, 1984, and True Lies? Would your head explode?
You must be referring to the Republican war against our freedom.
Would the government stepping in for a case like this imply that AT&T is guilty?
.. when those being spied upon don't know it.
Now everyone bend over and shoot a moon....
First, the President has rights and responsibilities under Article 2 that gives him broad powers in times of conflict and war.
This assumes a war or conflict that can be ended. If it doesn't then the whole article is rubbish and those powers could just be given to the president in all situations, not just in case of war or conflict.
It is obvious that the current govenrment is doing all it can to define the conflict in such a way that it can never be ended, hence it is clear that this conflict is in fact being used to get around the consitution.
I am not trying to suggest that the current US government would follow any racial policies or such similar to the nazi party in Germany in the 1930s, but they are most definitely trying for the same kind of abuse of the democratic system to gather as much power as they can.
broad powers in times of conflict and war
And he went ahead and declared war on an abstract concept! We've always been at war with Eurasia, you know.
As the targets of the program are terrorist or their affiliates, no reasonable person could argue
Open source supports terrorism.
Copyright infrigement funds terrorism.
And most importantly: You can't ask who they're really spying on.
You can't take the sky from me...
"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?"
-Alexander Hamilton
It's very discouraging for a government to only check if the rights specificly said are being infringed upon. While the government takes the interstate commerce and "nessecary and proper" clauses and stretches them to infinity, the 9th Ammendment is almost always ignored. Why does it seem like we'll need Constitutional ammendments to limit what the government wasn't ever given the power to do? I'm not saying that we can ever truly go back to a small government in the libertarian sense, but we could at least not have the government slowly chipping away at our abilities to exercise fundamental human rights, like being reasonable sure that a lawful citizen can communicate privately without fear of being randomly tapped.
I sincerely doubt that anything that can be modified by the President (e.g., Executive Orders) will place any sort of constraint on the behavior of this President.
The whole concept of "times of conflict and war" is a canard. The US has been in near continuous military action - "times of conflict and war" - since World War 2. It's not what the Founders intended. Beyond that though, the moderation on a post arguing strongly for universal government surveillance of citizens and an effective elimination of freedoms and rights taken as core for 200+ years currently sits at +5 Insightful. It's incredible, and infinitely depressing, how many people actually want this.
If the President is as certain as you are that the people being wiretapped are genuine terrorists, then why doesn't he obtain the required FISA warrants?
Wild Eeep!
Illegally spying on citizens isn't criminal?
the only reason this is a "civil" case, is cause the government is too corrupt to regulate it'self properly at this point.. it's left to the citizens to fight back, and unfortunetly, the only way is through "civil" law..
MABASPLOOM!
Come on, Government - if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to fear, right?
(Why does that sound familiar?...)
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend