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ESRB Changes Oblivion's Rating to 'Mature'
kukyfrope writes "Perhaps reacting based on the debacle that was the 'Hot Coffee' scandal, the ESRB today changed the rating on The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion from Teen to Mature. From the article: 'The content causing the ESRB to change the rating involves more detailed depictions of blood and gore than were considered in the original rating, as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters,' said the ESRB in a release."
if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters,' said the ESRB in a release.
So is this out yet?.....
MMMMMMM...polygon'd boobies!!!
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
virtual boobs only had 5 polygons and we had to walk to school up hill, both ways!
Uh, you could technically mod any PC game into toplessness. Therefore all PC games should be Mature? Do I smell a console conspiracy?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
If i make a mod for Oblivion allowing the player to engage in sexual intercourse would that mean the ESRB would have to rank Oblivion AO?
Basing the rating of a game upon the available third party content seems very stupid to me. I'm sure i'm in the majority of slashdotter who think that changing the rating of a game because of mods is stupid.
this does not bode well for the future of video game ratings.
It's the marriage with an Orc that summons a Mature rating.
Please stop entering code 2,2,7,6,6,4
I love the game, but there is no way it should ever have been Teen. The necromancer and vampire lairs can be very graphic (If you've seen Memorial Cave, you know what I'm talking about.), way too graphic for a little kid. Decomposing bodies with a noose around their neck hanging from the ceiling? And a 'kicked out' chair underneath them? More decomposed bodies stuck to the wall with spears (Incidently, the only spears in the game, other than the skulls.)
Way too graphic.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go buy one of the last 'T'-labeled games, and sell it for a profit later on.
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
Why is the ESRB now adjusting a games rating based on post-release modifications? Have you seen what topless Oblivion is like? You have to be pretty desperate to get off on those lumpy misshapen breasts.
And, since they have started this crusade, why hasn't the Sims 2 been pulled and modded Adults Only yet? That has far more explicit mods and in-your-face sexuality. Hell, the only way to get ahead in that game is to have sex, and that only gets a Teen rating still?
If the ESRB is going to keep pulling this, all game makers should just slap Adults Only labels on their games and let the parents figure out which ones are safe for their kids, like they are supposed to be doing in the first place.
From the article..."as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters"
I think the problem is that the content in question is actually included in the game itself, though locked out. I'm not exactly sure what the developers were thinking, including those skins. After the whole Hot Coffee fiasco, you think they'd have learned.
Because, you know, you can't possibly confront young people with images of something they've sucked on 10 years ago.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I saw a video of this nude patch a few months ago, check it out here.
If i wanted to hear bullshit, i'd go to church.
I have been told by reliable sources that the ESRB rating board in fact contains nudity, and that it can be unlocked simply by undressing the board members. I must therefore recommend that this story be rated M, and that /. prevent minors from reading it.
English is easier said than done.
the PC version will carry an additional content descriptor for Nudity
If the nudity isn't available in the basic game but needs a third party hack, isn't it false advertising to claim "nudity" on the box? I'd expect a refund if I bought this and found no nudity included.
The real Ralph Yarro posts as Anonymous Coward. Anyone else is an impostor.
I bet it has less to do with blood and more to do with game physics. In Morrowind if you attacked something it pretty much just bled and died, there didn't seem to be much of a problem with that. Now when you kill something and wack it's body with your +2 club of Enfeebling it will flail about in a most humorous manner.
So in other words the stationary boobies aren't the problem, it's the jiggly ones.
Reality test... am I dreaming?
Because the best way to demonstrate the strength of your ratings system is to REPEATEDLY CHANGE RATINGS AFTER ASSIGNING THEM.
As long as it's one Orc.
Polyorcamy would warrant mature in this political climate.
That's not quite how it works. I haven't played the game, but this is what I've gathered from reading the author of the mod's comments.
Most games handle clothing by making it directly part of the character model. Oblivion models character bodies and clothing seperately. Although this approach increases the complexity of the graphics, it allows more reuse of art assests. With this approach, you can mix and match body types and clothing without having to redo the artwork for the different combos. This patch simply removes the clothing layer.
Also, according to the mod author's comments, the topless women don't quite look right. The models were designed to look right wearing clothing, not bare.
Anyone up for labeling this scandal "Hot Mead"?
Insert Sig Here
Oh noes! Quick ESRB, slap minesweeper with an M rating!
Why, only yesterday I was sickened to find that by cutting out and supergluing the centrefolds from 'Playboy' onto my television, I was able to turn the supposedly child-friendly film 'Bambi' into a cornucopia of filth. I have written to the head of Disney to complain and will be protesting outside my local Best Buy to demand this sick spectacle be taken off store shelves.
A book, present both in Oblivion and in Morrowind. Contents follow:
The Lusty Argonian Maid
by Crassius Curio
Act IV, Scene III, continued
Lifts-Her-Tail: Certainly not, kind sir! I am here but to clean your chambers.
Crantius Colto: Is that all you have come here for, little one? My chambers?
Lifts-Her-Tail: I have no idea what it is you imply, master. I am but a poor Argonian maid.
Crantius Colto: So you are, my dumpling. And a good one at that. Such strong legs and shapely tail.
Lifts-Her-Tail: You embarrass me, sir!
Crantius Colto: Fear not. You are safe here with me.
Lifts-Her-Tail: I must finish my cleaning, sir. The mistress will have my head if I do not!
Crantius Colto: Cleaning, eh? I have something for you. Here, polish my spear.
Lifts-Her-Tail: But it is huge! It could take me all night!
Crantius Colto: Plenty of time, my sweet. Plenty of time.
END OF ACT IV, SCENE III
---
(and make friends to the alchemist in Skingrad, she'll ask you an interesting question...)
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
If this is the case, it brings up all sorts of interesting questions about the nature of nudity, since the texture, on one model, is perfectly acceptable but the same texture, on a different model, is obscene.
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
-Voltaire
Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
The problem that Americans have with nudity is pretty much incomprehensible to Europeans. We laugh when we hear about it, but actually it's pretty sad.
The greatest nation on Earth is also one of the most primitive and most inhibited cultures in existence. And as it's a core inhibition within the religious fundamentalism of the government, the cultural barbarianism gets institutionalized, and isn't going away.
Things like this remain around until the current generation of standard bearers die off. The inevitable conclusion is that if you're American but "enlightened" (you know what I mean, and if you don't then don't worry your little head) then you'd better spend part of your year across the pond, even if it's just for the yearly holiday.
Very sad.
Just to make it clear again, I like Oblivion, Hardcore, and eMule. I don't like rape and the encouragement or incitement to do so, and hope Oblivion is not associated with Hot Coffee and other last-minute changes. Clear enough for you ? RTF POST!
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
'I', for 'Immature'?
Not A Sig
Care to actually be informed and know what you're talking about? From the wiki entry on the Hot Coffee mod:
Moving forward:
Who defines vice? Further, who defines the encouragement thereof? Where's the line between commentary and implicity? I'm not going to touch the other element of your comment simply because I feel that it'd likely come across in a manner I wouldn't intend - I assure you I've got nothing but the highest level of compassion for you in that regard.
First of all, screaming "You're facist righty scum" or "You're just a pinko commie" over a disagreement's is a bit childish. Not that it really matters, but, in reality, my politics are much more along the lines of western European socialism with a strong libertarian bent than they are Bill O'Reilly - I'd have my mic cut off on The Factor in a matter of moments.
*You* are the one who made an incorrect assertation without even actually saying what made it immoral. If it's my fault that I was actually informed about the issue and aware of the content of the mod (and not some assumed rape element that *does not exist in the game*), then I apologize. My statement about puritanical ideology may have been a bit overboard, but your comment absent the undertones about rape (which again, is not present in the game) reads exactly as I responded to it.
Sorry again for the mix up, but I still stand in the same place on this one.
The parent is correct, the underlying skin of 'female upper body, nude' was only included to allow additional clothing to look correct when it exposed portions of what the bra was covering.
The nude female skin included in the file isn't even female. The proportions are quite distinctly male as evidenced by the placement of the nipples being way too far appart and thus rendering them on the side of the breasts rather than the front when it is placed over the female upper body mesh in the mod. The mesh file of the supposed nude still distincly shows the folds of the bra (rendered normally as a folded up, dirty off-white cloth going around the upper body) giving the topless characters lumpy shadows where the bra was.
In other words, this was not a 'hidden' nudity thing. The males can be rendered without shirts and clothing made with exposure of various parts of the upper body. The female was made the same way, and since the nipples would never be shown, it didn't matter that they used the male skin 'skin' for it as well.
Just to reiterate, the nude texture was included into the game because Oblivion's clothing and armor textures/meshes would not always look correct with a bra texture going straight through it. The bra mesh would also cause clipping and it would be rather clunky to retexture it with every armor. Rather than make some convoluted script that checks skin tone and modifies the existing texture, Bethsoft used a much simpler solution.
I think that the presence of nipples are the foremost concern for those who object to the "nudity" nipples are apparently the most offensive part of the mammary and must therefore never be shown to children of any age. But if we consider the role a nipple might play in the modelling of armor and clothing (although I will admit that I have no experience in this matter and will defer to the knowledge of anyone who does), such as providing a boundary for how far the neck of a peice of attire can go. The nipple play a part in determining where a seam might be placed on a blouse or an indentation on a tight fitting dress.
Unlike the Hot coffee mod, which was an intentional inclusion of graphic content, Oblivion's mesh and texture were created to make the game run more smoothly and quite possibly as a modder's resource. The "nipple" on the topless mesh is barely distinguishable from the rest of the breast, and Bethsoft goes to great lengths to make it's content appropriate for younger audiences. For example, in Daggerfall (and Arena?) the book series known as "The Real Barenziah" had very graphic sexual content, Which they removed from Morrowind (and Oblivion) and replaced with the phrase "this passage has been removed by order of the church" They also removed all nude daedra or provided more consevative versions of them for Morrowind. I don't think Bethsoft ever intended for the mesh and texture to be used for this purpose, and while Bethesda certainly expected nude content to become available, they should not be obliged to provide such content for ESRB screening purposes.
So I'm addicted to Oblivion, at least an hour a day of late. It's a great game, and one of the aspects that builds on this is that there is a sense of Accountability in the game. If you outright kill someone, things change. If you steal, people get pissed at you. If you punch someone, they go rounds with you. Isn't it more important when rating a game that it enforces proper consequences upon the player?
This is in addition to how ridiciulous it is that you can Mod it, therefore it's MA. Guess what, I can render porn in another well known program, called Windows, so I want it rated MA too (MA for what I say when it crashes).
--
Goblez
- Kal`Goblez
Would somebody hurry up and release a hardcore pornography mod for "Barbie's Horse Adventures" so that people can see the idiocy behind re-rating games based on mods?
1/ If you mod Oblivion you can unlock nudity skins, so they need to treat Oblivion as if people will do so.
2/ If I modded my pants I could cut out the crotch so my old feller is hanging out for all to see. Does that mean I should be treated as if I will and locked up for potential indecent exposure?
3/ And if its possible for me to do this, its also nothing stopping Jack Thompson from doing this.
Conclusion: If Oblivion is classified as mature for potential modded nudity, Jack Thompson needs to be locked up for indecent exposure. It's amazing how ironic the world is when you use specious logic.
Blessed are the 1337, for they shall pwn the earth.
Freud would like a word with you.
So would Oedipus.
allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters
Now there's a candidate for rephrasing if ever I heard one.
Hal Spacejock: Science Fiction with Nuts
Personally, I believe this has a lot to do with the aging of America. The same dorks that were getting wasted and making babies in the 60's are now called Senator and/or Mr. President. Bush talking about the evils of drug abuse sounds about as believable to me as Shwartzenager talking about the evils of steroid abuse.
My message to the ESRB:
a ct.jsp.
I just heard that you re-rated The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion based on a third-party content patch that unlocks the base skin used under the clothing models.
This is absurd.
I can make a third party patch for anything that will turn any 3D model into a naked chick in The Sims 2, Barbie Horse Adventures, etc. What I or anyone else does to a game that we have purchased should not affect the rating of the unmodified game sold in stores. This is just a cheap ploy to get attention.
Their form is at http://esrb-web1.client.logicworks.net/about/cont
Let 'em know if you feel the same way.
You are still innocent until proven guilty. What's changed is what they do to innocent people. - notnAP, #26891325
So basically they don't want kids taking the shirts off their dolly.
Better start checking IDs for all those Barbie dolls! We've got to think of the children!
On the game box infront of me for a T rated online game, right under the "T: Violence" part it says "Game experience may change durring online play.". How about when a publisher submits its game to the ESRB, one thing they have to tell them is if the game will have any sort of SDK, for creating mods. If so add "This game may be modified to reflect a different rating". Seems like that would be fair enough warning to parents, even though the majority would still ignore it and complain later...
It is pretty rediculous for a developer/publisher to leave content such as nude skins in the game, to be easily unlocked... Almost as rediculous as changing the rating of a game because of two nipples. The movie Titanic was rated PG-13 for fucks sake... and as I recall that contained nearly full frontal nudity.
My hand touched her hand. Her hand touched her boob. By the transitive property, I got some boob! Algebra is awesome!
Barbie dolls are now Adult Only toys, to be sold only in adult sex shops due to the fact that they have built-in nudity, and by modifying the doll (taking the clothes off) you can reveal said nudity which is not only unrealistic but exagerated for the purpose of sexual attraction (bigger tits)
Regardless of how those textures got there, the semantics of it are sorta like this:
1. There's the game as you bought it, and it doesn't show any nipples.
2. You download a mod which, regardless of HOW, replaces the bra texture with a skin and nipple texture.
Exactly what difference does it make where that texture was? If the mod was 100k larger to include its own textures, would that have prohibited anyone from downloading it? Well, no. Would an extra 100k have made the parent pay more attention to what little Billy is playing? Hah.
Or does anyone imagine that if the game shipped without that texture, someone else wouldn't have painted it? It's been done before for countless games which _didn't_ include nipple textures, and which in fact had the bra as an integral part of the texture. So what? It didn't stop anyone from recolouring that area, or swapping in a naked texture from another game.
So exactly what conceptual difference does it make? Why is it ok to have a naked mod for The Sims 2 or Morrowind or (don't laugh) SWG, but not in Oblivion? It's still something you have to explicitly search for, download and install, not something you can discover by accident.
If it was a case of "Oops, I bought this "Test Clothes" from a vendor hidden in a valley, and now my character is naked", _then_ I'd understand it. Well, ok, then it would be something that people (kids or otherwise) could stumble upon in the game as it was shipped. But that wasn't the case.
So let me tell you what it really is: idiotic hypocrisy. That's all. Bunch of retards trying to look more moralistic and puritan than the Joneses. "*GASP* You mean those nasty game developpers were playing with naked textures? Why, the evil perverts... let's punish them! Let's gather an outraged mob with pitchforks and torches!" That's all there is to it. A bunch of SFVs (Stupid Fashion Victims) and prom queens trying to be fashionably outraged, when they think it's fashionable to be outraged.
Groupthink is a funny thing. Or as Terry Pratchett once wrote, the IQ of a mob equals that of the most stupid member divided by the number of members. It's funny how whole towns or whole countries can be such a mob. Take a bunch of people who, taken individually, have nothing against X or pro Y, put them in a group where they think it's fashionable to be pro Y and against X, and watch them try to be the ones who scream the loudest against X and pro Y. Just to fit in the perceived group standards.
In this case, the perceived standard (at least in huge areas of the USA, but not only) is that to be a fashionable pillar of the community you have to be fashionably outraged by nudity, sex, etc. Watch the bunch of hypocrites try to outdo each other in being outraged of it.
It's freaking sad, that's what it is.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I appreciate your sensitivity regarding rape and wish to point out that I have seen lots of press articles referring to rape in Hot Coffe.
Therefore, no hard feelings and I retract my overly political statement..
Yes, this is a backpedal, your argument is fair and reasoned!
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
Dear ERSB: A modder adding nudity to the game? This is the software equivalent of a kid picking up a pen and comic book and drawing breasts and a mustache on Wonder Woman.
The Teen rating was appropriate. The Mature rating based off of third party modifications is not.
"To pass through the jungle; silence, courtesy, ferocity, as the occasion demands." -- Kamau, "Proper Passage"