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Jack Thompson Weighs in on Oblivion
Robotron23 writes "Jack Thompson has commenced his attack on The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion by seeking appearances on several talk shows. A press release announcing his availability speaks of Take Two not having 'learned its lesson' over the Hot Coffee scandal, before continuing to detail the issues surrounding Oblivion's re-rating, in particular regarding nudity - concluding that the game content will spawn 'an even worse disaster' than occurred during Hot Coffee."
Subject line says it all.
Video games don't make me fell violent, morons do.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
I think that there should be a new rating introduced. How about "TM", or maybe "T-M". It would stand for "Teen-Moddable", and underneath it it would say: "This game can be modified by the players. This means that there can be boobies and heavy sexual innuendo."
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
He likes to instigate things. He likes attention. Everyone knows his stance, which you either agree with or don't (hopefully it is the latter). Can we just be done with him now? Honestly, the best course of action is to ignore him.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Can't be pissed off at Thompson for being a wanker...He was born that way, I doubt he could help it. I guess you could blame his parents for not slapping the stupid out of him...
All that being said, W. T. F. was the ESRB thinking giving that game a goddamn Teen rating? DIABLO II got a goddamn M rating. Any moron would know that a first person game with fricking SWORDS is going to rate an M. Didn't Morrowind rate an M?
Really, does it weight that heavily on the sales if it ends up rated M?
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Gah, this is nothing but Troll bait.....We can't stop Jack Thompson from talking to the press. We can't stop the press from listening to him...so why do we even bother to post these. All we get are comments ranging from the useless to the insane (yes threating JAck with violence is an excellent way of proving he's wrong *sigh*). This post included ;)
Lets me tag stores like this with "asshole attentionwhore bullshit esrb fud"
/offtopic
Even if it doesn't accomplish anything it makes me feel better
This is just ridiculous. If you're going to make an accurate model of a human character, of course you're going to have to start with a naked form and build up from there.
I can understand people getting offended at "Hot Coffee", which was explicitly sexual, but this is just silly. People are naked beneath their clothing. It's true! Take-Two showed more no skin than you'd see in the world normally, but they made the horrible sin of starting from anatomically correct base. You might as well ban mannequins.
FTA:
During your interview, Thompson also gives antidotes from his new book, "Out of Harm's Way" (Tyndale House Publishers).
I wish someone would give me an antidote to Jack Thompson...
Actually it is a fair parallel to Hot Coffee. The content shipped on the disc, but the content isn't a sex scene. The content is a nude-colored texture for female characters. However, this horribly offensive nude "patch" doesn't even have nipples. The odd thing is that you can't access it on the 360, but the 360 version is being rerated and ripped off the shelves. So no nipple, and not even in the 360, but the 360 is being rated for having nudity. Thank God for the ESRB to protect me!
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
How did that man manage to become a lawyer?
of course he's only talking out of his rear end without bothering to do any research
Um, dude, I think you answered your own question without realizing it.
Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
http://www.tsanewsblog.com
How can user mods be prevented, also how can a developer be held resposable for a non-sanctioned mod (something that would void any warenty on the product)? That is the real question.
The "Lesson" is that Hillary Clinton is a stooge or at least bottom feeding to get conservative votes and people like Jack Thompson have declared war on an entertanment industy accusing it of erodeing our morals. Media reflects our culture not the other way around, "fix" our culture and the desire for simulated violence will go away on it's own.
Just my 2 cents...
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
First, get a bunch of gamers together. Give half of them the most violent video game you can think of, and give the other half a bunch of articles/rants by Jack Thompson, and tell each group to play/read for an hour. At the end of that hour, administer a few tests to see how violent each group is.
I guarantee you that the Thompson group will be much more prone to start bashing in heads, particularly Mr. Thompson's.
Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
It doesn't even look like a real nude woman[1], it's not even close to anatomically correct. It's less realistic than a Barbie doll with the clothes stripped off. Last time I checked, Barbie dolls didn't have an 'M' rating -- they didn't have a rating at all!
:)
[1] Or like the pictures and videos we've all seen, for those of us who lack a basis for comparison
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
He graduated from an accredited legal program and passed the bar, all of which can be accomplished without demonstrating that one has any ability to think critically and run an ethical lawyering practice.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
The ESRB's response to that was nudity was the real issue. So which is it?
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
"Last summer the video game industry was rocked by revelations that Take-Two Interactive, the makers of the hyper-violent Grand Theft Auto games, had illegally embedded in GTA: San Andreas graphic interactive adult sexual material."
Illegally imbedded? Since when is depicting nuidity in a work of art/literature/film/video game illegal? Pretty sure we can do that given the first amendment. The rating system is not law either, so not showing the ESRB all content is no more illegal. Seems his attitude is a bit skewed.
"It is also clear that Take-Two corporately and its senior officers, including CEO Paul Eibeler, individually, must now be prosecuted criminally for the knowing distribution of "sexual material harmful to minors" which is a felony in most states and nationally. The undersigned intends to work toward that end immediately"
Again, the ratings system is not law. Because a game is rated teen does not mean it is intended to be marketed towards kids. If anything, get on the ESRB for misrepresenting the game. Why not sue every publisher who puts out sexually explicit books. It's not the publisher's responsibility to dictate who should buy their material. His statements are outrageous.
For those who dont know, all the Mod did is:
It changes the male bare chest texture for the female bare chest (which has a bra)
Theres no "hot coffee" no hidden sex scenes, games, or anything, just some kid who realized in our culture is ok to show male breasts not female breasts you can do this "MOD" in ANY game.
Case closed.
Is there a way to send this info to ALL the talk shows this moron is presenting hilself on? (seriously)
p.s. IMO Oblivion does desserve an M rating theres quite a bit of blood, realistic violence, you can create an "evil" character, and theres some innuendo here and there, worst of all Oblivion (the land) does look a lot like hell. I have no idea why the ESRB didnt rated it "M" in the first place. My guess is they didnt played it at all. ( in which case is the ESRB the one who should be sued)
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
Actually, most of the sources I've read agree that the nude content was shipped with the game, and unlocked pretty much the same as hot coffee. Here's a couple:
r eady-available.htmli ewproject&project_id=191l ls_oblivion_4_nude_patch
http://www.igniq.com/2006/04/oblivion-nude-mod-al
http://www.oblivionsource.com/?page=modforge&op=v
http://grbeta.bolt.com/download/pc/the_elder_scro
Do you have a source that says it did not ship with the game?
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Actually all lawyers are required to sign up for Ethics 101 class in their first semester. Anyone who shows up is immediately expelled from law school.
Lets face it. One part of most boys development is to make liberal use of our adrenaline & testosterone. Some people play sports, some play video games, some get in fights, some go on murderous rampages, some break things, some hike, et al. The point is that it happens. Now, if there's a better outlet to fast-paced violent video games, then lets find it. IMHO if it means that some bored teenager wants to do -something- I'd rather it be beating the crap out of some virtual enemy than against a real person.
i ldren.cfm?from=sids
I think the real issue with the 'older' audience is that they've forgotten these key periods in a young boy's life. I say boys because in general people aren't afraid about girls morals being eroded. Its like there's a magical shield around girls that say they can't be violent offenders or mass murderers. Thats another flaw in their logic.
Not only that, they've mistakenly attributed the realism in video games as an increased threat to our childrens morals than the 'harmless' nature of games in the old days, like double dragon (The sole activity of the game is killing people).
If Jack really wanted to solve the problem, he'd come up with a new teenage pass-time that they actually want to do more than games.
Just to end this thought:
"Part of the research challenge is to try to learn what positive changes affecting children born most recently are associated with the reductions in both victimization and offending"
Quote relates to the severe decrease in crime from teenagers recently.
http://www.nichd.nih.gov/new/releases/americas_ch
Bye!
First of all, yes, there is blood in Oblivion and occasionally blood skidmarks as the corpse is thrown back by the Havok engine.
But also try stuff like this:
- decayed corpses in cages, corpses hanged over a flame, corpses hanged from ropes (sometimes with a kicked chair underneath, meaning the bugger was alive when he got hanged), a burning corpse looking like he tried crawling out of a lava pool right in the very first oblivion gate. Skeletons in spiked cages. I'm told there's even one with a tiny skeleton inside it, presumably a pregnant woman was left to die in that cage. People or corpses in cages whose bottom you can open and let them fall on some spikes below. Etc.
- the end of the Dark Brotherhood quest arc was already mentioned, so lemme detail a bit more: they hanged the bugger upside down and gutted him like sardine. Alive. Literally. The fresh corpse is basically hollowed. They'll even talk about it.
- towards the end of the Figher's Guild quest arc you get to experience getting drugged out of your mind, and in that hallucinating state going and slaughtering a whole village of innocents, including going in each and every single house and slaughtering every single villager.
- heck, if blood was bad, you can also set people on fire and watch them running around burning. (Try enchanting your bow for maximum fire damage, for example, watch people bursting in bright flames every time they get hit by an arrow. Or make a potion of fire damage and "poison" your arrow with it, same effect.)
- torturing people. Spoiler warning, btw. In one quest along the main line you get to explore a madman's "paradise". In fact, it's closer to our idea of "hell", and one section has people in cages in or over lava. And you can play with the levers to lower them into the lava, or raise them out of it. In the previous section you get to watch people be hunted by demons for sport, and you get one quest to free an even nastier demon and sic it on them.
That's just off the top of my head. Basically I'd say it's a _very_ gruesome game at times, not a super happy fun escapade through flower-filled meadows where deer bounce around.
So _if_ violence is considered a reason to keep kids from playing a game, then, yes, I fail to see why this game wasn't M to start with.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
And nudity is bad because...?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The best thing to do is just let him keep on ranting publicly, in the press and in court rooms. He does a great enough job making an ass out of himself, much better than anyone else could do to him. For added effect, maybe he can piss off another judge and get a contempt charge.
Jack is a troll trying to get publicity and popularity by attacking a scapegoat. It's an old trick, with Adolf Hitler being propably the most famous real example and Emperor Palpatine the most famous fictitive example. That's the peer group Jack belongs to. Joseph McCarthy and Fredric Wertham are other good examples of this morally banckrupt tactic of sacrificing innocents for profit.
For the benefit of Google Spider, let's put it all into a single sentence: Jack Thompson is using the same tactic as Adolf Hitler, Joseph McCarthy, Fredric Wertham and Emperor Palpatine used: victimizing innocents for his own profit.
Jack Thompson, Adolf Hitler. Jack Thompson, Senator McCarthy. Jack Thompson, Fredric Wertham. Jack Thompson, Emperor Palpatine.
Any other way we can make the poor spider link the man to his proper context and peer group ?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
There's a religious talk show called steve brown etc., and Jack was on there last week. A caller called in though and challenged him on whether video games cause violence when statistically violence is going down (at least in the us). Thompson said something about how the caller was wrong about violence going down and talked about some news study that showed it was going up. The caller then said something like "I can't believe you'd be calling a news story more accurate than crime statistics from the US govt." It was pretty funny...thompson basically conceded and then made some lame statement that violence would be down even more if there weren't violent video games, which is obviously bs. So anyway, why don't all of us arm ourselves with statistics like that guy and call into every show he's on?
3
Oh and that show has an mp3, here's the link for it: http://media.gospelcom.net/kln/sbetc/050606sbe.mp
>I think the real issue with the 'older' audience is that they've forgotten these key periods in a young boy's life.
I disagree: I think most people remember *exactly* how they were when they were younger and, now that they're older and more mature, are appalled by their own behavior and want to prevent other people from making the mistakes they made. It's just like stage mothers. One of my best friends is a hardcore Christian who is against drugs, homosexuality, and sex before marriage. Know why? Because when we were in college together she was spending every weekend drunk and coked out of her skull, screwing other girls. I keep pointing out to her that she wouldn't be where she is now if she hadn't done those things -- in fact, if she hadn't she'd probably be more like me, raised low-key liberal Christian with no particular urge to bust loose during college, and now as an adult completely permissive towards other people's rights to do whatever they want and vaguely agnostic, rather than who she became: right-wing Christian woman. Needless to say, she does not agree with me at all, because she, like Jack Thompson, thinks she has the right to tell other people how to live their lives. Which is, fundamentally, what this is all about: people who don't think you should know or live what they know or have lived. Santimonious bastards.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
Hitler claimed that Jews were out to destroy Germans, that there was a huge Jewish conspiracy out to destroy Germany. He then painted himself as the savior of German people, who would exterminate Jews and rid Germans of them.
McCarthy claimed that there was a huge communist conspiracy trying to destroy the USA. He then painted himself the savior of USA, who would exterminate communism and rid USA of it.
It's the same thing. Both destroyed people to boost their own careers. The main differences were that Hitler was a lunatic who believed at least some of his own garbage while McCarthy was just a morally corrupt liar; and that Hitler succeeded in getting supreme power in Germany while McCarthy failed to ascend past senatorship.
True, McCarthy didn't start death camps. However, he did his best to destroy his victims lives, so the lack of camps had likely more to do with lack of power than lack of malice.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Tonight, on "Eye on Springfield": just miles from your doorstep, hundreds of teenage boys are playing videogames where they are given weapons and trained to kill. The town calls it an "arcade", but a more alarmist name would be "The Killbot Factory."
Sorry, no, it was a female mesh with a female texture. I don't have the data here at work, but it was like 'meshes/character/femalebody.nif' and 'textures/imperial/_male/femalebody.dds' (Yes, the second path says _male, but the actual file says female.) Those are not the exact file names, but they aren't far off and both DID say female. That's hardly an accident.
The mesh was not actually used anywhere in the game.
I Googled and found the instructions to mod it yourself, without a download. I'm too lazy to change the above text.
From http://rome.ro/2006/05/oblivion-re-rated-bad-news. html:
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM