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Leveraging Development Skills in Other Fields?
It Can't Be All Bad asks: "I've been working as a programmer for a few years now, and I really love the work. I'm trying to think ahead of possible ways to leverage my skills into more specific areas where programmers are welcome and can find work. Areas like bio and chemical informatics appear very interesting ,but for the most part they seem to be for chem/bio majors with masters degrees. My biggest problem is that I'm self taught with only about a years worth of college experience. At this point in my life (with a family, kids, and bills), going back to school just isn't an option anymore. I wanted to know if anyone has had any success utilizing their development skills in specific fields that don't require masters degrees, and what areas I could be overlooking. Like most people here, I just want to be a part of exciting projects with some sort of purpose behind them."
I have found it well worth while to find jobs at small companies that are related to the field you are intrested in.. sure there isn't a huge ladder to climb up but you get a few years in the field and if your company is any good you get a good reputation.. then you can move up and to a larger company that is what you want.
.. they want to see it get bigger.
if you don't have the papers you must show your experience - best to start out small as they are the most likly to let you try - and if you can prove your self you can open doors..
but on the other hand i went back to the small company because i like the work better and the people are nice and not just out for a paycheck
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Assuming it's informatics you want... Find out where the people who you want to be like hang out - Informatics blogs, IT Toolbox groups for informatics apps, etc. Just absorb for a while. Then get the to know the tools they use - there is uaually a way to get an evaluation copy or at least a white paper. Ask polite questions when you don't understand, and get to know the more kindly regulars. You CAN work in informatics without a subject matter degree, but it's harder - you need to be able to buddy-up with a scientist and do the computer things he does not want to, without becoming 'just the computer guy' (who is expected to do all the low-level computer stuff).
There are some college-level statistics courses available for free, too - I think MIT has one.
This method will work for any semi-advanced but not too esoteric field these days. Those internets, amazing things.
Look for a tie in. It's easier to squeeze it in the nonprofit sector.
I did the exact opposite of your question (leveraged other skills to get into development), but I suppose the concepts are the same. I have a dregree in history from Penn State, but since I was wee ittle I've been tinkering with computers. Hell, I broke the computer so many times when I was little my Mom had to have her company's tech guy come out and lock it down so I couldn't screw it up again.
At this point - pretty much 15 years later (8-23) - I'm an experienced network admin and web developer regardless of whether or not I've had formal instruction in them (I took Intro to C++ at Penn State before getting forced out of the Computer Science program due to low grades - I went and got myself addicted to a MUD. But that's a differnet story. Heh.)
Anyhow. My specialization in history? The US Civil War. My job? I'm the one man IT department for these guys.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
I'm using six years of video game testing experience on a help desk for a large corporation. Instead of dealing with clueless producers as to why the game shouldn't ship with fatal bugs, I'm dealing with clueless customers who can't find the ON/OFF switch. The hard part is not die laughing while the user is on the phone.
"At this point in my life (with a family, kids, and bills), going back to school just isn't an option anymore. "
Has long distance learning ceased to be an option?
Although I mostly studied programming in my college Comp Sci major, most of what I actually learned (other than syntax) was problem solving. Self-taught or not, if you have what it takes to be a good programmer, you probably have what it takes to be good at other jobs which are about finding the solutions to problems. OK, maybe not social work or politics, but anything combining analytics with creativity... so if anyone asks about your academic credentials, point out what your real qualification is.
Find something that interest you, not where you think there are jobs...
Not to sound rude or anything but the best thing you can do is pick some area that you are actually interested in. You mentioned that you are interested because you can get work in those areas. You have a much higher chance of succeeding if you don't pick your career path based on potential jobs but truly on what you find fascinating. This will allow you to pick it up much quicker and if you express this interest in your work you will certainly do better work and be able to advance quicker. I am sure this might not be you, but there are way too many people that say they're interested in getting into Bioinformatics/Chemoinformatics/etc. I love the field and wouldn't want to work anywhere else, but it's dissappointed to see the applicants flooding with people who have no true interest, or experience for that matter, in any of the relevant fields.
but do you really want to? The perspective on problem-solving gained through computer programming is useful for virtually any task repeated more than a couple of times. I worked in an industrial-strength kitchen popping things in and out of the oven, and knowledge of things like modularity, latency, pipelining, and resource locking made me an incredibly efficient baker. Using the idea of symmetric multi-processing made me faster when working as a cashier because I used both hands to wave things past the bar code scanner. Knowing how sorting algorithms made me really good at a desk job moving papers around based on index numbers.
Then I discovered that if I had absolutely no interest in what I was programming I didn't get depressed when management sabotaged it. So now I work for a megacorp and just code what they tell me to code. I get my "working on something interesting/important" fix by working on open source software in my spare time.
How we know is more important than what we know.
I have worked 12 years in the IT field, and one day I just decided to be a homeless beggar. My hygene hasn't changed much, and I can save up for a cup of coffee just by sitting in front of the local Starbucks as I steal free wifi to surf the web with my Blackberry. Plus I can sleep whenever and wherever I want. Sweet!
As one of three kids, I remember as a young kid, seeing my Father have to go off on his own some nights to study and other nights he would not be home or have to leave right after dinner for classes. Don't make excuses. If you don't want to go to school, don't. If you want to go, go. Just don't make up excuses or let excuses get in the way of bettering yourself.
Personally, it seems to me (as a business owner) that when I hear things like this, it is the same as the person saying, "I want something better, but how can I get it without extra work or sacrifice?" If you want an improved situation, you'll have to work for it and have to go through earning it through work and hardship. If that's too much, then don't dream if you won't work.
A degree can help to increase your chances of doing something you really want to do. Given your circumstances, perhaps an online university such as this one could be just what you need.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
... or if they did he said "Screw you."
I think you misunderstand the point of going into these fields.
The point isn't for the programmer to go around and cure cancer. The idea is that while the medical and chemical engineers are great at what they do, they are not so great at computer science.
So you go into this field *to help them* do their work.
BTW to the OP I'd say look into the fields numerical analysis and informatics. The idea is that when you have to compute a *lot* of data knowing how to best use the processing power is important. It's also very important to know how to mitigate potential errors. And perhaps how to throw together a computation cluster or two.
Of course, a good coder will not be necessarily good at any job. But, I understand the point this way: if someone is a good coder this means he likes his job and he likes doing it well. This means that he likes doing everything well. If he becomes a construction worker, he will do this well too. It is in the nature of man to do things well or to be lazy and work only for the paycheck.
Just my opinion.
What a n00b. Using the idea of heterogenous multi-processing made me faster when working as a cashier because I used both hands and both feet to wave things past the bar code scanner.
I'm a programmer and used to be an admin, for a total of about 10 years working in tech now. The most useful experience I've ever had was working in a very project management heavy environment, doing reporting for managers and facilitating onsite teams. I didn't really learn much in terms of technology in this role and I didn't really have one specific job description. What I did get from it was the opportunity to learn how businesses work and get things done. I don't really want to become a manager but I find it much easier to talk with management types and work around cultural/domain lingo barriers (even if that means sucking up some corp-speak). I'm still friends with several old managers (who repeatedly solicit me for work) and I have a much easier time identifying bad managers and explaining why they suck in terms that someone other than a techie could understand. I was a shoe-in for lead/design roles on project management software development projects. And really all of this was from some non-tech exposure in a very tech-centric environment (IT support outsourcing).
Just because you don't know the domain-specific details of an area you'd like to work in doesn't mean that those sorts of projects don't need skills beyond the immediate context of the project's domain. If learning the domain up-front is too daunting or unrealistic, why not look to more general skills that most any project can benefit from?
There is a lot of areas where you don't need anything but your PC, net, arxiv.org and may be some not very expensive equipment. If you like bioinformatics you may want to check genetic algorithms - there was not much progress in that area lately, and that mean opportunities for a newbie. If you like chemestry check "artificial chemestry" and cellular automata it using. If you want work with you hand as well as do programming you may dabble into small-scale robotics, image recognition (and the subfield of face recognition) for it, self-replicating assemblers. You may try to cross abovementioned areas, or invent some new ajusted field. After you make some progerss and get accuinted with the field you may try to apply for real job.
even if you don't feel like you need it, go ahead and get your degree. It will pay off in the long run. Find a way to do it, go to night school, live off of your wife's salary, borrow, take part time contracts, go to overload classes. Get your degree.
The harder, more difficult, more math intensive your degree the better. The sooner you can get it, the better.
[signature]
When I was stuck washing glasses in a bar I tought a lot about the knapsack problem.
Spencer Ogden
Not sure this helps but heck...
My first degree is in electronic engineering, I then did a PhD in computer vision. I spent 6 years working in a medical school working on developing novel approaches to analysing MRI data (specifically neuro imaging). I now work for a large Pharmaceutical company working on medically imaging projects.
A lot of my work involves overseeing and developing imaging techniques and software as well as managing analysis projects internally and with numerous collaborators all over the world. It is an incredible interesting job as well as being a rewarding industry, financially but more importantly ethically and morally (people seem to like to dislike drug companies, but how many other industries are trying to cure cancer?)
I think key to this has been that although I like to think of myself as a competent even good programmer (hell I read slashdot don't I!) it isn't the focus of what I do. At heart I'm an engineer and like to see the problem solved and the data analysed just as much as creating an elegant solution. I also just love plotting data, but that's just between me an my therapist. It can be frustrating being surrounded by biologists, chemists and clinicians all speaking a very different languages (even structural chemists appear to have a hard time understanding the organic chemists) particularly during warm afternoon meetings. However, I get a great satisfaction in being a 'fish out of water' so to speak and having something completely different to offer plus I've learnt a lot about the process and science of drug development.
My advice? Definitely use your programming ability as a tool and get in there. You may need to do a conversion course (MSc in Bio-informatics or some such) although we have quite a lot of informatics people who come from all manner of background (e.g. financial). Try and get some statistics training too. On the whole not understanding the biology/chemistry is not as much of a hurdle as not understanding what the data distribution means or how best to summarise it.
-- "Can't sleep, clowns will eat me!"
Any specialized programs that perform calculations pertinent to a specific industry probably require a good knowledge of the subject matter in order to create accurate algorithms. General purpose programs, like a generic database, are probably handled by the IT department.
--- There are two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don't know it
IMHO, System Programming, Information Security and Financial Systems are good areas to work, because you can focus in software. In Bio or Chem. you'll need to learn stuff not related to computers or CS stuff. It's good if you like to study different things, but I prefer to focus in software.
I work for a Stock Market with server side software. You can think otherwise, but the business rules for stock market are simple (if you stay away from Risk Software, where you will do lots of math). You will need to deal with multithreading, optimizations, sockets and logs, lots of logs (God Saves grep/awk/sed). They spend billions of dollars with technology, there will always be jobs for good programmers.
I've been recruiting for 10+ years in Silicon Valley and here is my recommendation: since you are trying to leverage your IT experience into somewhat related Cheminformatics/Bioinformatics field, I recommend that you target biotech companies as an IT professional and specifically state in your objective that although you are applying for an IT position, you want to grow into and learn more about Cheminformatics/Bioinformatics. Someone else on this particular thread mentioned this already but I would highlight that if you let your passion and enthusiasm guide you, then it really does not seem like work and you are more likely to succeed than others who see it just as a job. Job descriptions often appear rigid but you would be surprised to see how flexible recruiters and hiring managers are when they see promising talent.
b /RI05-252
BTW, I am looking for a Java Developer - details at:
http://www.cytokinetics.com/cyto/opportunities/jo
Best of luck!
Charles
Silicon Valley
"..untrained code geeks who learned how to sling together a few Visual Basic routines."
I don't have a degree.
I designed and wrote a software system that saved a large financial instituion hundreds of millions of dollars.
I designed and wrote software to parse and find relations to different cellular results.
I wrote software to fire a laser in extremely percise time interval.
I get job offers very regularly.(real offers, not just fishing headhunters.)
Do not confuse lack of a degree as uneduated or untrained.
Visual Basic code, indeed.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"I designed and wrote a software system that saved a large financial instituion hundreds of millions of dollars."
Did you invent the ATM? Other than that, I can't think of many applicaitons an individual could design and write that could save a financial instituion that kind of money.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs