Nintendo Shares Up, But Do Devs 'Get' the Wii?

kukyfrope writes "Nintendo shares have jumped over six percent since the Wii's unveiling at E3 last week." Despite both Peter Moore and Phil Harrison recommending you should get a Wii, the future of Nintendo and the Wii aren't assured. Next Generation reports that third party developers may not really 'get' the ambitious console.

Comments

They Will, Eventually

[knight37]

Remember, when the DS first came out not that many third parties "got" the DS either, but now they do, and we're seeing tons of titles coming out for it. Developers will figure Wii out, and since it's such an innovative platform, developers will WANT to develop for it. I can see Wii having much better third party support than the GameCube did, even though it was generally easy for a quick "port" to the cube. We won't see those cheap ports on the Wii, but we'll see some actual games developed specifically with the Wii in mind. Sure, we'll see some gimmicky crap too, but "90% of everything is crap".

Re:Good Point

[AuMatar]

EA is also working on ports of its sports games. They are porting to the new controller as well, its been mentioned that in Madden passing will use the remote as a pointer and a tossing motion for the throw. It might make that the first Madden game I've bought in years.

The problem is vastly different capabilities

[DrDitto]

The big problem is that game developers like to develop a game for all the consoles in a given generation. The hardware capabilities between the PS2, Xbox, and GameCube were different, but in the same ballpark.

Now I'm not a graphics guru and could be wrong, but to my understanding, this greatly eases the art pipeline-- for example textures and polygon counts could be the same size.

The problem with the Wii is that it is not in the same class as the Xbox360 and PS3.

Many people don't realize that for a given game, as much as 3/4 of the manpower goes into art and *not* code. Most developers leverage existing game engines. A friend of mine is on a project where they have ~ 40 artists and ~ 10 coders.

Re:The problem is vastly different capabilities

[egomaniac]

You could just as easily argue that this is an advantage of the Wii -- games can be made by smaller teams on tighter budgets. That's one of the reasons Nintendo's handhelds enjoy such strong third-party support: it isn't a huge investment to develop a game for the GBA or DS, at least compared to the home consoles.

So if Wii is cheaper to develop for and has innovative features which get people excited about gaming again, it may mean that developers will be more amenable to the idea of developing for it. After all, nobody seems to mind that the DS doesn't have the same horsepower that the PSP does -- if they likewise don't care that the Wii doesn't have the same horsepower as its competitors, then developing for it is going to look very attractive.

Speaking only for myself, I don't really give a rat's ass that the Wii isn't as powerful as the competition. Sure, high-def support would have been nice, but saving $350 by getting a Wii instead of a PS3 is damned nice too. And as a jaded adult with a wife and kid who has very little time for gaming anymore, it's been really hard to get excited about games lately. Sure, I bought a GameCube and a PS2 and (eventually) an XBox, but I don't remember being really excited about any of them. The Wii, on the other hand, has me positively giddy with anticipation. I'll get a PS3 and an XBox360 after a few price drops when I have nothing better to do with my time and money. I'll get a Wii at midnight on launch day.

Re:The problem is vastly different capabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

Want to know a Secret?

The Wii really isn't much less powerful then either the PS3 or the XBox 360, and in some ways (single thread performance) is more powerful. What the Wii's weakness is, is that the Wii contains a fixed pipeline on it's GPU; for those people that don't know what this means, the Wii does not support Programable Pixel/Vertex shaders.

If you look at the Red-Steel screens you'll see what I'm talking about; the geometry in the image will be as high as anything on the PS3/XBox 360, the Textures are as high resolution as anything on the PS3/XBox 360 and the Particle effects are as nice as anything on the PS3/XBox 360. When you compare screens you'll notice what is lacking is Normal Maps, and Material effects. Nintendo didn't include shader support because it costs a lot of money to produce Normal Maps and BRDFs (or other material functions).

Games will not be hard to port to the Wii, but they will never look as good as they do on the XBox 360 or PS3.

Re:The problem is vastly different capabilities

[Cadallin]

There are several things wrong with your post:

1. Texture memory - Yes, the Revolution has less memory overall, (estimates about final numbers are between 96-128MB. HOWEVER (!) this memory is all 1T SRAM, i.e. it's really fucking fast, and the system is using a UMA, plus each of the individual components have reasonably big on-die caches, so the Revolution has a very decent, SPEEDY (Faster than DDR2, and RAMBUS), memory sub-system.

2. Information indicates that the revolution's main CPU is a faster clocked version of the chip in the Gamecube, which is a slightly customized POWERPC G3 chip. On the other hand, the cores of the Cell, and the Xbox 360 are known to be the same design and are in many ways extremely cut down, to such an extent they they are less capable than the initial 1993 PowerPC cores. The Revolution's G3 has a MUCH higher IPC than the CPUs in the competition. As a result a more accurate comparison would be to say that it probably around 1/2 as powerful as one such core.

3. Given the Gamecube GPU's proven graphical prowess, and that it is known that the Revolution's GPU is a faster version of that chip, YES, there will be power to spare on AA, especially at 480p. Also, you seem to be confused, Jaggies get worse as you INCREASE resolution. So all things being equal, at 720p a scene will look more jaggy than at 480p.

That lower resolution also means that requirements are lower across the board. One can simply look at GC titles like "Resident Evil 4" and the release screen for Twilight Princess, plus the knowledge that the Revolution has headroom to improve on that, and rest confidently that the revolution will look just fine

Re:The problem is vastly different capabilities

[keyne9]

There is some serious delusion on the part of some Nintendo fans on how well this system is really going to be able to compete in the graphics department.

There is some serious delusion on behalf of the PS3/Xbox360 fans in that graphics are the game.

Re:Good Point

[scd]

What games could possibly resist that?

The ones who are too mature, and need violence/sex all the time, that's who...

Lack of Developer Support?

[DeadCatX2]

Say what?

There are lots of games coming out for the Wii.

And just because big third parties aren't frothing at the mouth doesn't mean anything. I'm FAR more interested in titles like Sadness. These less-known developers are going to take risks that you won't see any big third party developer take.

Re:Good Point

[Lave]

There haven't been many games announced for the Wii by 3rd parties. Red Steel, Madden, Super Monkey Ball, and Sponebob are all I can think of off the top of my head. There will be more, but not at launch (we're not even sure about the above). The top off your head isn't the best place to decidie things like that. This is the official upcoming games list announaced at E3 As you can see they have a lot of support. 77 games announced before launch is amazing compared to the gamecube. (FYI: These aren't launch titles but are the first announced - they plan to have 20 titles at launch.) Disclaimer from the Nintendo press site - someone was kind enough to post their login details on a forum I use. These are copied and pasted from a pdf - hence the formatting problems - I'll bold the developers but I cant be bothered to arrange them:

Tony Hawk's Downhill JamTM MarvelTM: Ultimate Alliance Activision Call of Duty® 3 AQ Interactive Boxing Action

Atari Dragon Ball Z Budokai: Tenkaichi 2

Atlus Trauma Center: Second Opinion

BANPRESTO Family Action Game Disney's Chicken Little: Ace in Action

Buena Vista Games Disney's Meet the Robinsons

Capcom Resident Evil series SIMPLE series

D3Publisher Original Action Game

Eidos Title TBD Madden NFL '07

Electronic Arts Medal of Honor Airborne

EPOCH Title TBD From Software Action Game Genki Title TBD BOMBERMAN LAND

HUDSON SOFT Flight Game

JALECO Title TBD KOEI Sengoku Action Elebits

Konami Digital Entertainment Soccer Game Majesco Bust-A-Move Revolution BOKUJO MONOGATARI Heroes KAWA NO NUSHITSURI Marvelous Interactive Original Simulation Mastiff Mr. D. Goes to Town (working title) The Ant Bully

Midway Games Happy Feet New Vertical Scroll Shooting Game

MILESTONE New Action Game Character Action Game MTO SAN-X All-star Revolution FINAL FURLONG Mobile Suit GUNDAM SD GUNDAM G BREAKER DIGIMON ONE PIECE UNLIMITED ADVENTURE New Action Game New RPG TAMAGOTCHI

NAMCO BANDAI Games Title TBD

Natsume (developed by Marvelous) Harvest Moon Disaster: Day of CrisisTM Excite TruckTM Fire EmblemTM Metroid® Prime 3: Corruption Project H.A.M.M.E.R. TM Super Mario® Galaxy The Legend of Zelda®: Twilight Princess WarioWareTM: Smooth Moves

Nintendo Wii Sports Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz

SEGA SONIC WILD FIRE

SNK Metal Slug Anthology Necro-Nesia Spike Jawa CODENAME: FINAL FANTASY® CRYSTAL CHRONICLES: Crystal BearersTM

SQUARE ENIX DRAGON QUEST SWORDSTM: The Masked Queen and the Tower of MirrorsTM Turn IT around!! Let's go by train!

TAITO Cooking Mama -Cooking with International Friends-

TECMO Super Swing Golf PANGYA The Game Factory Title TBD Avatar: The Last Airbender SpongeBob SquarePants: Creature from the Krusty Krab THQ Disney/Pixar Cars Action Game

TOMY Battle Action Open Season Rayman Raving Rabbids Ubisoft RED STEEL Vivendi Universal Games Title TBD

Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Title TBD

It will take time to gain momentum

[LordZardoz]

Regardless of how great the Wii turns out to be, Nintendo is going to need some time to overcome the less then impressive image they have gained from the N64 and Gamecube. Part of it is that not many companies are going to be eager to bet on the guy who came in 3rd place in a 3 way race. Gamecube did better in Japan then the X-Box though, and that is why your seeing alot more Japanese publishers giving it a shot.

Aside from that issue, another more insidious problem is that people tend to hold grudges, and Nintendo has alienated many developers over the years. It took most of 2 console cycles for Square to do anything with Nintendo after Yamauchi said that Squares RPG games suck. And Nintendo also managed to drive away Silicon Knights shortly after the Metal gear port was done. There are many more companies that just dont much care for having to work for Nintendo.

The last issue is that even once the console starts to take off, most 3rd party games (except probably for those done by Sega) are just not going to feel as good to play as most of the Nintendo titles will. While the SDK is cheap, its going to take a while for the designers to get their head around the sort of things that are possible. WarioWare: Smooth Moves will be the best demo title for the sort of things someone can try with this console, and Metroid will point the way for FPS games. But beyond that, its going to take a while before 3rd parties come up with the sort of Original titles that will truly sell the system.

Its like playing a Texas Hold-em poker game, and your starting hand is 7 Jack, when your opponents have pocket aces and pocket kings. You will win once the flop comes down as 7, Jack, Jack, but its going to be a while before everyone else at the table watching the game realizes it.

END COMMUNICATION

Spinning a way out of E3

[killbill!]

Whenever I hear both Microsoft and Sony advising consumers to buy a Wii as a second console, I hardly see that as an endorsement. Instead, I can see fear in their eyes. Fear that consumers are going to buy a Wii first.
The huge splash Nintendo made at E3 has spin masters frantically running for cover. They're trying to downplay the Wii as good enough only as a secondary console. But even they feel the former Revolution is going to be a coup.

As for third-party developers, I'm planning to buy a Wii on launch day and at least 4 games (Metroid, Mario, Zelda and Red Steel, maybe Wii Sports). That's enough quality gaming right here to prevent me from actually seeing the light of day for the next few months, and I'm not even counting the countless classics on the Virtual Console.

The Wii is not suffering from a lack of titles. Actually, it already has too many strong launch titles to even let me try an unknown third-party game. Out of my 4/5 launch titles, only one is from a third party. The publishers that missed the boat have only themselves to blame.