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Everyone Still Rumbling About PS3
To put things in perspective, the Curmudgeon Gamer has created graphs showing inflation-adjusted console costs. The PS3 is far from the most expensive console in history (that would be the Neo Geo, at almost $1000 adjusted price), but that hasn't stopped analysts, publishers, developers, and gamers from grumbling about it the week after E3. ABI Research has publicly stated that Sony may have 'hamstrung' itself with the console's high price. Publishers and developers are worried because (despite Sony's protests to the contrary), developers just don't have the kits to make the games. From the GameDaily article: "'A lot of developers have not gotten the kits,' said Sega of America president Simon Jeffrey while attending E3 last week. 'There certainly will not be a lot of titles available.' The result is that publishers that do want to take part in the PS3 launch will have to release games that don't fully take advantage of the power of the Cell processor, added Jeffrey."
Everyone Still Rumbling About PS3
Unfortunately, the PS3 is not going to be doing any rumbling of its own.
Except for the 1st generation systems (Atari), no system that has cost as much as the PS3 has succeeded... even taking inflation into account.
That and he's got the $500 PS3 on there, comparing with the highend 360. He should really have the $600 PS3 on there.
I had every intention of purchasing this console. Now there's a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening. Nintendo is going to be my camp for this generation of consoles now.
And it will hit $1000 on Ebay
I was wondering how I'd pay for Christmas this year.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Well this is interesting, I think the price concern is still justified considering the systems that beat it were the 3D0 and Neo-geo. Didn't everyone think those systems were ridiculously expsensive at the time, too? It would be more convincing if the PS1 and PS2 prices adjusted to inflation were in line with the PS3 price.
That chart doesn't really make me feel any better about the PS3's price, the only consoles more expensive on the adjusted chart are stuff like the Neo Geo (rich, niche market), the failed "multimedia" consoles like the CD-i, and the pre-1980 stuff that was ahead of its time. The only comparable (meaning, not niche) console that was more expensive than the PS3, even after adjusting price for inflation is the Saturn, which failed in the US.
Not written by me(quoted from the inquirer) but kinda funny:
Sony boardroom last June. Welsh wizard, Howard Stringer, is in the chair for the first time.
(ACT ONE)
The Sony boardroom. SONY EXECS seated. STRINGER pacing.
STRINGER. OK, moving onto the PS3... what is the easiest way for us to lose the ball on this one?
SONY EXEC ONE. Price, if we make it too expensive then Nintendo and Microsoft will screw us to the wall. Most people will not pay more than what the XBOX360 costs.
STRINGER. Great, anything else?
SONY EXEC TWO. We could delay it for ages until box Microsoft has established itself in the market. That would make it harder for us to claw back our lucrative European and American base.
STRINGER. Not bad, need a few more here.
SONY EXEC THREE. Well it is a bit tricky but we could make two versions of the PS3. One will have all the wi-fi gubbins and other bits that people want and will make it different from the XBOX360 and the Revolution. But make this version even more expensive than the base unit.
STRINGER. Nice thinking. It would also split our marketing budget between two similar products and the punters wouldn't know what we were selling.
SONY EXEC ONE. We could also make a really low key launch of all the details while our competitors are all over the games press like a hot rash.
STRINGER. Interesting how do we do that? There will be a lot of people interested in the PS3.
SONY EXEC ONE. We could go to E3, lock the demonstration models in a glass box and be evasive about crucial things like launch dates.
STRINGER. I like it... we will do all those things.
Sony Exec Two: Are you nuts?
STRINGER. No I am Welsh, we have a long history of being shafted by everyone from the Romans, the Normans, the English and the European Union but singing beautifully while it is done. I have no intention of winning against Microsoft or Nintendo. Now about what is happening with that Blu-Ray thingee. How are negotiations going with the HD-DVD crowd? µ
"far from the most expensive console in history." They say it like it's some sort of accomplishment or something.
What's next...a different study showing that the Sony Rootkit was "far from the most invasive rootkit in history?"
Whatever.
By pricing the PS3 so high, not only are they making the choice easier for next-gen gamers (PS3/Xbox360/Wii), but they are blowing their trump card in the next-gen format war.
It seems to me that a better move would have been to take a big(ger) loss on the consoles for the sake of saturating the market with Blu-Ray. Instead, they've set themselves up to lose both races.
The Neo-Geo (which if I remember correctly had CARTRIDGES that sold for almost 1000$ let alone the system itself... granted, it's been a long time and my youthful memory might be decieving me... and no, I'm not going to bother to take the time and look it up, someone else go do that and report back =) ) was that expensive for a couple of critical reasons.
1) It was a console that had technology far exceeding any capabilities available at the time. When Neo-Geo was selling to the elitist rich kids, the masses were just beginning to poke their heads into the SNES/Genesis market. A system of comparable power to the Neo Geo was at least... what? 4 years away? Possibly 5?
2) It was a console that was not marketed for the masses. Its advanced technology was marketed only to the few that could afford it. They felt that point (1) justified that marketing. Sony cannot claim that for the PS3, because no matter how many processors its core system is equivalent to, the end user is not going to see a dramatic difference between it and, say, the XBox 360. It's not like it was back then, when gamers who were used to 2D pixels suddenly had a system powerful enough to render 3D scenes. THAT was a significant jump... the jump between the Neo-Geo and its peers at the time was infinitely larger than the jump between Sony and its peers in technology.
If Sony wants to market to an exclusive lot, that's fine and entirely their perogative. But they won't sell many copies that way, and they're not going to make a lot of money that way. Where's SNK right now? I think last I heard they went bankrupt. Sony could learn from that example.
Of course, in order to actually appeal to an elite few, you have to offer them a truly elite product. They're going to need to beef up those system specs if they want to hit a market like that... and beef it up in such a way that an actual end user could visibly tell the difference in each and every licensed game they purchase.
-Vendal Thornheart
Neo Geo
3D0
PlayStation 3
CD-i
Sega Saturn
SONY, if you can pull this one off, you'll easily have the highest-priced success story in the history of video game consoles.
I don't think you can pull it off. $500-$600 is too much to pay for a video game console that, as far as I can tell, isn't doing that much of consequence to distinguish itself from the XBox 360 in the eyes of your average consumer.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
The PS3 will cost a zillion dollars and not have any games or any online or any vents and the controller was stolen from the Nintendo 64 and the games will be stored on Betamax tapes and you really, really, really hate Sony.
We get it already that you hate Sony and hate the PS3, and everyone agrees with you. This is established. You don't really need to post more stories about it, especially not on the front page, unless there are actual new developments. Can we have some stories about games now?
A bit of a defense for the Neo-Geo...
Neo-Geo like it's co-"competitor" the SNES, was arguably the console with the longest lifespan. It debuted in 1990 and the last game for it was released in 2004, a full four years after the original company (SNK) had declared bankruptcy. And some of the games that came out late in the system's life, including Metal Slug 3, King of Fighters '98, and Mark of the Wolves are some of the best games in their respective genres. Neo-Geo also had two main two systems: the AES (the regular Neo-Geo) and the MVS (the arcade system). Both of these were basically the same hardware, and software could run on either. Even if your favorite arcade game never reached the home system, with some soldering you could easily make a home-version of the game from the arcade one.
The price was always prohibitive, sadly. Old AES systems, even today, command a premium and most new games had an MSRP of $200-$300 each, if not more. Specific versions of old carts can go in the four figures.
Thankfully, the Neo-Geo lives on. There's still a very healthy market for it among collectors (see above), emulation of the hardware is almost arcade-perfect, and the most popular series (King of Fighters, Metal Slug) have been appearing as re-issues for more popular systems (Xbox, PS2, etc.).
Out of all the high-priced systems of the past, Neo-Geo was definitely the most popular and lasting, a credit to the game-centric (but ultimately unprofitable) ideology of its creators.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I like Zonk's stories. He actually writes them. They are for the most part well written and thoughtful with decent spelling and grammer. That's about a million times more than most of the editors do around here ;-) If you don't like it, uncheck Zonk's box and you will never see them again. There may not be as many posts in his stories because they appeal to a narrower audience, but the posts in his stories are on average more on topic and insightful. I know dissing editors is something of a hobby around here, but admit it, you don't really have a beef with Zonk, you just want to hurt his feelings for the fun of it. Probably because you are jealous that he gets to make money from playing games. Well, more power too him! I'd do it if I got the chance.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Sera.
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
The Neo Geo was not a console, I owned one. It was not marketed as a console, it was not *meant* to be a console. It was sold as a true arcade unit that had the ability to play all of the arcade titles without needing to buy individual cabinets.
The Neo Geo did exactly what it was supposed to do, be a 100% exact copy of the arcade unit, NOT a port or a very close remake.
For what it was the Neo Geo was a hell of a deal. A single arcade cabinet would have cost as much as the system and just one game, so after purchasing a few titles you had saved a considerable amount of money over individual stand alone units.
I will say that the Neo Geo would have been much better had it come as a stand up cabinet that allowed the games to be changed, for the money. But then it did not take up the space of a cabinet, so I guess that was the tradeoff.
In any event, this is not a fair comparison. The 3DO, fine, but not the Neo Geo. Everyone likes to use it as the comparison and it is so damn frustrating because it most certainly was not a console, not even close.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
Okay, like the wii is going to be all fun and stuff, and I'm like totally going to play it and be all like 'WHEEEE', because that's the name of the thing, well, not exactly the name, but they sound the same and that's what nintendo is going for with the name, and like dude, you're going to have actual light saber battles and you'll hear like the totally cool doppler effect if you play the new Zelda, and omigod I'm so going to run right out and get one and be like all 'WHEEEE!!!one!' but I think that I mentioned that already and this is totally a run on sentence as I haven't used like any of that lame ass faggy punctiation, except for the comma splice that overweight fat bitch of an english teacher warned me about, but she's totally an ex-box chick so I don't have to listen to a goddamned word she says, cause I'm going to be rocking out to my new Nintendo console while she's busy overheating her ex-box power supply and Mr. Schmidt, the P.E. teacher is sitting there with a totally kickass PS3 and no games to play because they couldn't get a dev kit out to all those homo developers, and for the price of one PS3, I've got the wii (remember: WHEEEE) and like six or seven great titles with plumbers and shit.
There, is my UID low enough?
If you inflation adjust TVs, vcrs, dvd players, stereos, computers, or ANY other consumer electronic device you will see a violently declining price.
That's kind of the point here. If you look at the graph, the price isn't declining all that violently. They declined pretty sharply in the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s, then climbed in the mid 90s, collapsed with the debut of the N64 and Dreamcast, and are now going back up again in inflation-adjusted (real) dollars.
From a perspective of someone interested in a PS3 is that Sony has priced its product into a range previously occupied over the past 20 years by the Neo Geo, CDi, and 3DO -- none of which were terribly successful commercially, at least when compared to less-expensive platforms like the NES, SNES, and Playstion.
So while experience in other technology sectors indicates that consoles ought to be dirt cheap right now, Sony is still trying to charge a 1982 price for a 2006 product. It remains to be seen whether consumers will be wooed by the technology into shelling out that much dough. Frankly, I'm skeptical. But then again, I've never bought a new console in my life: I wait until they're one generation out from new and I get can get one used, complete with a mod chip and other goodies that early adopters have to live without.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I mean, there it is. You can't shorten it any more than that without editorializing or removing vital information, and nothing more needs to be added to it to explain the situation. There's the facts of the case, and from them, you can deduce all that remains.
As a semi-professional blogger, I envy your writing skills, sir.
Then you beat your damn kid for being a greedy little turd and teach him to appreciate the generous parent who gave him anything at all.
(I say "Wii consoles", because there is no way to pluralize "Wii" that doesn't sound totally fucking stupid.)
The plural of Wii is clearly Uss (pronounced usses). Yes, I'm agreeing with you.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
First off... some people do not want a game console. I am sure you know the type: They think games are silly and won't consider anything that might be related.
Second, there are some nice features in dedicated players:
Front panel display
Backlit remote
high quality upscaling of DVD content
high quality scaling to formats other than the discs native format.
lower physical noise levels
lower signal to noise ratio
more picture adjustments/calibration settings.
Basically the PS 3 will be great when your Blue Ray content matches your TV's native resolution. Unfortunately that will be very rare.
A lot of Blue Ray movies will be 1920x1080p on disc. Will your TV handle that ? If you have a TV that is 1366x768 progressive, like most people who have HDTV's, every movie you watch will be scaled, as that resolution doesn't correspond to ANY HD or SD format.
The scaler in the PS2, Xbox and Xbox 360 is pitiful. A $50 USD DVD player outperforms all of them with standard DVD. There is no reason to expect any better from the PS3.
Unless you have one of the new Grand Wega's or the other 1080p TV's most Blue Ray content will look noticeable worse than a dedicated player. Even if you do have such a TV Blue Ray content that is 720p on disc will look worse than any dedicated player.
Now- I happen to be buying both a 1080p TV and a PS3 sometime this year. (probably both together in the fall.) This is less of an issue. I do however expect to get a dedicated Blue Ray/HD-DVD combination player once they fall under $300 USD.
You could also buy a higher end A/V amplifier, many of which include high quality image scaling hardware.
The point is that you do actually get something for your money. (Provided of course that you are shopping intelligently.)
By the holiday shopping season (ugh.. pains me to type that.) we may see a couple of low end blue ray and HD-DVD players, but I don't think so. All the manufacturers are looking forward to the high margin early adopter money too much. Still, despite my opinion, don't rule it out.
Expect to see a huge raft of cheaper Blue-Ray players after the holiday season.
In fact- if the PS3 doesn't sell well enough expect to see a PS2.5 or somesuch. basically a PS3 with a DVD instead of Blue-Ray. It would play PS2 games at enhanced resolution (like you see with Halo 2 on Xbox 360) and PS3 games that fit on DVD media. It will be very aggressively priced- probably debuting competitive with a price reduced Xbox 360. (Yeah I expect MSFT to drop the price after the holidays, like say in February 2007.)
Don't post innacurate information
If you do, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
Dad? I didn't know you had a Slashdot account...