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European Commission Reverses its Views on Patents

prostoalex writes "ZDNet UK News reports "The European Commission said last week that computer programs will be excluded from patentability in the upcoming Community Patent legislation, and that the European Patent Office (EPO) will be bound by this law". Politician Adam Gierek posted a question to European Commission asking the institution to clarify its standings on software patents."

17 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Pretty sure the reporter has it wrong... by morganew · · Score: 5, Informative

    Europe has never allowed 'software patents' instead, the allow "Computer Implemented Inventions"

    Article 28.1 of the draft Community Patent Regulation provides that a community patent can be invalidated on the grounds that the subject matter of the patent is not patentable in accordance with Article 52 of the Munich Convention (that is, the European Patent Convention). Article 52 of the Europen Patent Convention provides that computer software "as such" is not patentable subject matter.

    If the community patent regulation were actually adopted in its current form, one would be able to get and keep patent protection for computer software-implemented inventions in the same manner that it is currently possible under the European Patent Convention.

    Unless the Commission is putting for a new version of Article 28.1 of the draft Community Patent Regulation that specifically repudiates the "as such" language in Article 52 of the European Patent Convention, the situation is the same as it ever was.

    relevant text of orginal EPO Docs:

    Methods of doing business are, according to Article 52(2) EPC, not to be considered to be inventions. Although not explicitly stated, this exclusion is also considered to apply to a wide range of subject-matters which, while not literally methods of doing business, share the same quality of being concerned more with interpersonal, societal and financial relationships, than with the stuff of engineering - thus for example, valuation of assets, advertising, teaching, choosing among candidates for a job, etc.. The term "business methods" has become a generally used shorthand for all of these areas.
    Claims for business methods can be divided into three groups:

    claims for a method of doing business in abstract, i.e. not specifying any apparatus used in carrying out the method;
    claims which specify computers, computer networks or other conventional programmable digital apparatus for carrying out at least some of the steps of the business method ("computer-implemented business methods");
    claims which specify other apparatus (perhaps in addition to computers) e.g. mobile telephones. ,/i>

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    A sig?!? I don't think so.....
    1. Re:Pretty sure the reporter has it wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Right. The way I read the .doc file, all they are saying is,

      1. the new "EPC" law/framework will simply reconfirm that the EPO is bound by law, rather than just doing whatever it wants;
      2. and as such, any patent can be appealed in court if someone thinks the EPO overstepped its boundaries.

      It does not really say anything about what those boundaries are. In fact it reads more like "we're still thinking about that".

      Part of the .doc quoted for great justice (and to avoid the need for a .doc compatible viewer, wtf, it's just a bit of text) -- emphasis added :

      Moreover, with respect to the particular cases mentioned by the Honourable Member, the draft Community patent Regulation confirms in its Article 28.1(a) that patents granted for a subject matter (such as computer programs), which is excluded from patentability pursuant to Article 52 EPC, may be invalidated in a relevant court proceeding.

      This being said, the Directorate-General for the Internal Market and Services has launched a broad consultation of all interested parties on the future patent policy in Europe, with a particular focus on the structure of the European patent system. The Community patent, including the common political approach which was reached by the Council on 3 March 2003, forms part of the questions addressed to all stakeholders. The deadline for the consultation was 12 April 2006 and preliminary findings will be discussed with stakeholders at a hearing in Brussels that will most probably take place in June 2006. The Parliament will of course be duly informed of the results of this consultation.


      So, meh :\

      --peirz

    2. Re:Pretty sure the reporter has it wrong... by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pretty sure the reporter has it wrong... Europe has never allowed 'software patents' instead, they allow "Computer Implemented Inventions

      What actually happened is "the European Commission has confirmed that the European Patent Office's (EPO) case law is not binding for member states... For the first time, the Commission has also clearly stated that computer programs are not patentable subject matter, without hiding behind the infamous "as such" cop-out."

      Go to a reputable source for this if you want accuracy: European Commission: EPO Case Law Not Binding - Software Not Patentable..

      This is a great development, it's far from the end of the story.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:Pretty sure the reporter has it wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      Article 52 of the Europen Patent Convention provides that computer software "as such" is not patentable subject matter.

      Although not completely inaccurate, that's pretty misleading as the way you've arranged the words gives the impression that there's no clear exclusion of software patents. What Article 52 actually says is:

      (1) European patents shall be granted for any inventions which are susceptible of industrial application, which are new and which involve an inventive step.

      (2) The following in particular shall not be regarded as inventions within the meaning of paragraph 1:

      (a) discoveries, scientific theories and mathematical methods;

      (b) aesthetic creations;

      (c) schemes, rules and methods for performing mental acts, playing games or doing business, and programs for computers;

      (d) presentations of information.

      (3) The provisions of paragraph 2 shall exclude patentability of the subject-matter or activities referred to in that provision only to the extent to which a European patent application or European patent relates to such subject-matter or activities as such.


      That final "as such" has indeed been used by the EPO as a loophole to allow software patents but in the actual Convention it applies as much to e.g. presentations of information or to aesthetic creations as it does to software.

      In practice the EPO has applied it in relation to software in a manner that permits software patents in general.

      The wording probably could be used to justify certain exceptions to the general prohibition on software patents (or patents on presentation of information etc.) but I don't believe that it can in good faith be used to render the explicit prohibition on software patents irrelevant.

      Can any supporters of the EPO's stance give examples of things which would have been patentable had the EPC not explicitly excluded computer programs from being regarded as inventions, but which the EPO treat as non-patentable as a result of that exclusion?
  2. Does this mean patent immunity for EU corps? by ArghBlarg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Can EU-based companies then freely do work to interoperate/reverse-engineer things made by the (insane) US software industry? I hope to $DIETY so. This would force the US software industry to actually focus on quality and usefullness instead of paying lawyers to lock the latest trivial feature up in patents.

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  3. Don't break out the champagne just yet ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    European Commission Reverses its Views on Patents

    For now. This has gone back and forth so many times I feel like I'm watching a game of ping-pong. There are enough powerful interests involved that this issue that continued vigilance will be required.

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    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  4. Re:Clarify please? by AEton · · Score: 4, Funny

    This means that software can now patent people.

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    We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
  5. Re:Clarify please? by cp.tar · · Score: 5, Funny

    So in European Union, YOU reverse "in Soviet Russia" jokes!

    Wait a sec, something just doesn't seem right...

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    Ignore this signature. By order.
  6. Pressure? by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to wonder if the corporate lobbying pressure has shifted as the big players have been hit with more and more patent infringement lawsuits in the USA. Of course the free software complaints must have helped, but I've always had the impression that these bureaucrats listened more to industry.

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    a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
    1. Re:Pressure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The EU software industry consists mostly of smaller companies that would be hurt by allowing for software patents. Only companies such as Microsoft, Nokia and Siemens were lobbying pro-patent as far as I recall. It might just be the EU Commision have learned to ignore the Irish commisioner, who is heavily pro-Microsoft due to the company's presence in his country.

  7. It will be nice to see by Null+Nihils · · Score: 5, Interesting

    a steady flow of independent innovation pouring in to the UK if they do end up getting rid of the illogical legislation standing in the way of software progress (I will refrain from using the word "innovation").

    Microsoft (and anyone else commanding a patent arsenal) are saying the opposite, of course; that the market will shrink, not expand. It sure would be nice to see them eat their words if the UK does continue in a no-software-patents direction and smaller, more inventive companies take advantage of their new freedom.

  8. Re:Thank goodness by afaik_ianal · · Score: 4, Informative

    For anyone who didn't cringe at that post (and I'm talking about the wording of the post, not what MS did or didn't do), please read COPYRIGHT vs. TRADEMARK vs. PATENT before taking part in this discussion.

  9. Contrarian view by xkr · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It used to be that inventions were made out of motors, belts, pulleys, and such. Consider the cotton gin, or the sewing machine. Now, inventions are made with computer programs, web interfaces, java beans, relational databases, flash. The real tests (used to be): is it novel? It is useful? More than ever, those hundred-year-old requirements still make perfect sense. Patenting the obvious is just as bad an idea now as it ever was.

    In the heyday of railroads, new patents were being issued every few hours on improvements in track shape and airbrakes. The parts of the patent system that are broken, or badly in need of a tune-up, are not related to computer programs, they are related to issues of proper review, rational litigation, and what should be public disclosure of licensing, and mandatory licensing.

    Patent law actually requires "fair licensing." After all, the whole point of patents was to get inventions INTO the public domain, not to promote monopolies. Its just that courts have long since given up trying to assess fair licensing, so we have forgotten that half of the original formula.

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    I will create a sig when innovation restarts in the U.S.
  10. Re:Sounds like that's good for open source... by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm still not clear on how if you actually want to make a living selling software you create you can do so without being able to claim an intellectual property right.

    Copyright gives you all the protection you need. Branding and customer loyalty from consistently good products and consistently good service will work wonders too.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  11. Re:Clarify please? by zoney_ie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The European Union is ultimately important most of all for political reasons. It is bringing European countries closer together.

    For some countries, it has been invaluable - e.g. in the case of Ireland. That is, not just economically, but from a point of view of being involved, not just a small isolated backward country on the outskirts of Europe. While not an equal to large European States, the country (and other small EU members) are far closer in status to the big countries than they would be outside the European Union.

    The EU is also about offering help for countries to improve themselves. Sure, some countries haven't done so well (Portugal, Greece) but they might be worse off but for the EU. And it is important for every country to have at least somewhat as well-off neighbours. One doesn't want a US-Mexico situation.

    At least some of the Central and Eastern EU members are already making great strides towards catching up with the rest of the EU.

    I do not understand those who don't see how this benefits Europe as a whole, even those who could easily "go it alone" (e.g. UK). Besides, some of the complainers, their problem is they aren't making the best of the EU (look again at the UK - they could do so much better from all the openings that having 24 other members has).

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  12. Re:Clarify please? by BobTheLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Free trade harms the local economy and increases unemployment? Which economist have you been reading?

  13. Software patents in Europe: status quo&next ba by FlorianMueller · · Score: 4, Informative
    Let me provide some clarification:

    Software patents do exist in Europe. Tens of thousands of them, in fact. They have been, and continue to be, granted by the European Patent Office (EPO) as well as national patent offices (such as the UK Patent Office, for an example).

    However, Microsoft, Oracle, SAP and the other usual suspects are unhappy about the fact that most of those European software patents are barely worth the paper their documents are printed on. All patent litigation in Europe goes to national courts. Even if there is an infringement of the same patent by the same infringer in multiple countries, the patent holder has to sue country by country. The national courts look at the applicable national law. So, what does that applicable law say as of now?

    All countries that are member states of the European Patent Organization (the international organization that runs the EPO) have signed and ratified the European Patent Convention (EPC), a treaty that was worded in the 1970s. Its article 52 says that "computer programs" (and various other things) are not patentable inventions. But it also says that this exclusion only relates to the excluded subject-matter "as such".

    The interpretation of "as such" varies greatly. The EPO believes that a computer program is only a "computer program as such" in the form of source code or object code, on which no one (not even in the US) would want a patent because its scope would be too narrow (for protecting code, copyright does the job anyway). But any concept that can be implemented by way of a computer program, such as a context menu, is considered a technical invention by the EPO.

    It's like saying: Once the program actually runs on a computer, that whole computer along with the program running on it is no longer a "computer program as such" and the exclusion doesn't apply. That's the EPO position. It's also the way many national patent offices justify the grant of software patents. However, national courts with their independent judges often come to a different conclusion and throw those software patents out right at the beginning of an infringement litigation.

    At this juncture, the real threat is not that the EU would introduce an EU community patent and change the legal framework. The clear and present danger is that the European Patent Litigation Agreement (EPLA) might be ratified. Microsoft, SAP and their usual allies (including the EPO itself) are pushing for this initiative now. That's the one to watch out for.