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Scientists Find Ancient Ecosystem In Israeli Cave

An anonymous reader writes "Israeli scientists said on Wednesday they had discovered a prehistoric ecosystem dating back millions of years. Scientists were called in and soon found eight previously unknown species of crustaceans and invertebrates similar to scorpions. The cave, which Hebrew University Professor Amos Frumkin said is 'unique in the world,' had been sealed off from the outside world since its surface is situated under a layer of chalk that is impenetrable to water."

26 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. Wow by solafide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Question is, will these new species be able to survive now that they have been opened up to the outside world?

    1. Re:Wow by l5rfanboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wonder what kind of care and concern will go into the study of these creatures, though of course many I'm sure will be taken back for study. I really wonder however if this will be used in the evolution vs creationism debate.

    2. Re:Wow by aquabat · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wonder if they taste good...

      --
      A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
    3. Re:Wow by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Funny

      Evolutionist: "See, they evolved to fit their environment- more proof of evolution".

      Creationist: "See, they were intelligently designed not to have eyes in the first place- more proof of the creator"

      The truth: They were placed there as a joke by his noodly appendage. Ramen.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  2. Fine and dandy except... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    If they find a bunch of pulsating eggs in the back of the cave, Chest-busters will definitely be a new species to runaway from.

    1. Re:Fine and dandy except... by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
      > If they find a bunch of pulsating eggs in the back of the cave, Chest-busters will definitely be a new species to runaway from.

      Never mind that. The cave has been sealed for 5 million years. It's so dark that everything in it has evolved away from eyesight. We're talking GReat Underground Empire levels of darkness.

      > LOOK
      Nothing to see here. It is dark. It is so dark that you are not merely likely, you are absolutely certain, to be eaten by a grue.

      *** You have died ***

  3. ...and now it's contaminated by frankie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well at least it appears the cave doesn't contain some cryptovirus that none of the surface world's immune systems can defeat. Although realistically the opposite is more likely to be true, and everything in the cave gets killed by invading crickets or something.

  4. What have they been eating? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they've been in the dark for so long, what have they been eating? You have to get energy into an ecosystem somehow.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:What have they been eating? by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Chemolithoautotrophs, probably. Microorganisms that are metabolising compounds from the rocks to get their energy, then everything bigger eats the next step smaller below them. Similar to deep-smoker vent communities.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    2. Re:What have they been eating? by gmiley · · Score: 2, Informative

      As stated in the article it is an Ecosystem. Ecosystems on any scale you look at it are presumably self-sustaining in and of themselves. Just like anywhere else you can have bacteria, fungus, slime molds, etc at the primary level feeding off disolved minerals, then the next step up would be tiny micro-organisms living off the fungus and slime-molds, next step up - insects, small critters feeding off the micro-organisms, etc... so on and so forth.

    3. Re:What have they been eating? by Tango42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not matter that's an issue, it's energy. Most ecosystems are powered by the sun (via photosynthesis), this ecosystem must be powered by something. I think cave systems are either powered by chemical reactions from volcanic vents, etc, or on biomatter entering the system from outside. They claim this one was completely cut off, so it's probably some chemical thing.

  5. stran9e by packetmon · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Every species we examined had no eyes which means they lost their sight due to evolution," said Dimantman. How do the scientists know that considering the so called blind scorpion was dead and the others were live. Perhaps eyes looked differently and evolved into what they now expect. For all they know those creatures could have had some motion imaging sensors that were eyes. Anyhow here is a picture of the scorpion. What that article also failed to mention was that all but one scorpion were found alive:

    The invertebrate animals found in the cave - four seawater and freshwater crustaceans and four terrestial species - are related to but different from other, similar life forms known to scientists. The species have been sent to biological experts in both Israel and abroad for further analysis and dating. It is estimated that these species are millions of years old. Also found in the cave were bacteria that serve as the basic food source in the ecosystem.

    The animals found there were all discovered live, except for a blind species of scorpion, although Dr. Dimentman is certain that live scorpions will be discovered in further explorations and also probably an animal or animals which feed on the scorpions.

    http://www.playfuls.com/news_001136_Previously_Unk nown_Prehistoric_Species_Discovered_In_Israel_Cave .html

    1. Re:stran9e by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Funny
      > More to the point, how do they know it was evolution?

      Because there was no Intelligent Designer in the cave with them.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:stran9e by Trogre · · Score: 4, Funny

      Haven't you been keeping up with current events?

      The intelligent designer rose from the cave on the third day.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  6. good on them by johansalk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The quarry men who knew to call the scientists.

    1. Re:good on them by Otter · · Score: 4, Informative

      In Mediterranean countries with antiquities everywhere (Israel, Greece, Turkey), all children are taught that if you find any artifact, bones, cave or whatever, you don't touch it and you inform someone so experts can be brought in. It's like "Don't get into strangers' cars!" in other countries -- they have public service announcements about archeology during cartoons.

  7. Re:Excellent example in favor or evolution by Mir322 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or it was just God going "Nothing for you to see here..."

    --
    "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."- Friedrich Nietzsche
  8. Original press release--answers many questions by Haberdasher · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.huji.ac.il/cgi-bin/dovrut/dovrut_search _eng.pl?mesge114907691205976587 It's 2-3 times longer than the wire service story and answers the 'what they're eating' question and others.

  9. O2 by Nutria · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Even crustaceans breathe oxygen and expel CO, so what transformed oxygen to O2?

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  10. The picture is of one of the crustaceans. by zen611 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Crustaceans are the lobster-like critter in the image.

  11. Don't go in there! by CODiNE · · Score: 4, Funny

    Scorpions? Long passageways? If you find a Mayan temple down there DO NOT GO INSIDE.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  12. That's easy. by jd · · Score: 2, Funny

    If they're being kept in the dark, then they're feeding off 24-hour news.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  13. Not that unique... by Starker_Kull · · Score: 3, Funny
    "The cave, which Hebrew University Professor Amos Frumkin said is 'unique in the world,' had been sealed off from the outside world since its surface is situated under a layer of chalk that is impenetrable to water."

    Sealed off from the outside world, probably dark and dirty in that cave, with mysterious life forms growing within. Sounds like a typical /.ers house to me.

    (Ducks)

    ;)

  14. Beer-goggles by alcmaeon · · Score: 2, Funny
    "I mean, maybe we devolved into having eyes, and they evolved into not having them?"

    Good point. If eyes were so damn great, we wouldn't have had to invent beer to overcome them.

  15. Re:White scorpions? by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Informative

    Do creatures that live in no-light situations evolve to be colourless as colour is not useful without light? Does this show that other creatures in light-available areas develop pigments etc to serve a function based on their environment?

    Yes, and yes. Pigmentation in water crustaceans is often a matter of camoflage. Producing these pigments has a metabolic cost as does producing eyes. When they are no longer needed for survival, the very slight pressure to conserve energy overwhelms the now missing pressure to disguise oneself to avoid getting eaten.

    This is why nearly all species isolated from light for many, many generations end up blind and colorless. What little color they do have is from the materials they are made from instead of from added pigmentation.

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    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  16. Re:White scorpions? by Profound · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It would depend on how the eyes were removed. If it was the equivalent of /* createEye() */ then it wouldn't take much to evolve back. If it was a gradual reduction in power until the eye was effectively useless, then it would have to re-evolve all the way back again.