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The Arctic's Tropical Past
140Mandak262Jamuna writes "The BBC reports on findings that the arctic/polar region was tropical some 55 Million years ago." From the article: "Although the data tells us how the world changed from one with green house conditions to one with ice house conditions millions of years ago, it may also help scientists to predict what will result from the present changes in climate. Appy Sluijs points out that the data reveals that some of the climate models used to detail the Arctic's history got things wrong, and as they are the same models that predict our future climate they may need adjusting. " The reader pointed out that this may have had as much to do with continental drift as it did climate change.
That's how that polarbear fits into Lost!
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
If its the latter, then we still get the benefits of a cleaner environment. So why not take the steps?
CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) are not particularly toxic. If we're only concerned about pollution, we should probably focus on things which are a bit more toxic e.g. mercury in the water which enters the human body through tuna, etc. And remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you do impose heavy restrictions on companies in the "developed world," they'll simply move whatever tiny amount of manufacturing is still left to China or any other country which is business friendly and does not limit CO2 production of companies.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
Climate changes aren't caused by humans! So it's irrelevant to study them, whether they are happening or not! There's no proof humans are causing them! ARGH!!!!
Sorry, had to condense anti-global warming people's stuff down to a few lines. =P
FTA - "'Basically, it looks like the Earth released a gigantic fart of green house gases into the atmosphere - and globally the Earth warmed by about 5C (9F).'"
:-)
I didn't know that fart was a scientific term. I'll have to include it in my next science assignment.
"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." --Barry Goldwater
From the wikipedia article on continental drift: "South America and Africa are moving apart at an average of 5.7 cm per year, due to the seafloor spreading along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. This is comparable to the growth speed of a fingernail. The fastest recorded seafloor spreading takes place along the East Pacific Rise at 17.2 cm per year"
Using the lower number gives us a distance of 2850 kilometers in 50 million years. Not quite far enough for major climate change just based on distance. However, this amount of drift could severely alter the Atlantic Conveyor, a heat pump that moves tremendous amounts of heat from the equator to the poles. It is also enough distance to affect the amount of light available to trees.
It should also be noted that using the higher figure would result in a movement of 8600 kilometers, nearly the distance from the equator to the poles.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I have a friend who has terrible motivation. Whenever he has a problem, it totally makes him freeze up... and it really hinders him in life. I tell him: "Well, why don't you try [solution X]?" To which he always responds, "Oh, if I do that, then all that will happen is [new speculated obstacle Y]."
Sometimes I want to grab him and yell, "Maybe. Maybe not. But you could at least try!? Why talk yourself out of trying? If you try and fail, you're certainly no worse off than if you just sit around on your ass wishing the problem would disappear!!"
.... and this is how I feel about many of the arguments against environmentalism. People poo-poo any specific action that is proposed, saying: "Oh, if you do that, then companies will just do this" or "If you do that, then you'll just see these other problems" or (my favorite) "If you do that, it might not make a difference." But why spend all this energy talking yourself OUT of even trying to solve a problem that needs (ultimately) to be solved, anyway?
Sure, manufacturing companies might move oversees to China. But not all of them can afford to, and for some of them, they might calculate that the cost of moving overseas exceeds the cost of complying to environmental regulation. And in the end, more companies will still be more compliant, than if you just throw your hands up in the air and say "oh noes! nothing can be done-zo!"
The northernmost parts of Canada, Russia, and Alaska, as well as all of Greenland are considered to represent the Arctic Region of the Earth. The Geographical pole itself is just ice, but there is plenty of Arctic Tundra up there.
Using the lower number gives us a distance of 2850 kilometers in 50 million years.
You mean the lower number that is the relative speed between two plates that are moving away from each other?
Read what you posted again:
South America and Africa are moving apart at an average of 5.7 cm per year
The implication is that South America is moving 2.85 cm west each year and Africa is moving 2.85 cm east each year.
Since you are dealing with the absolute speed of a single plate (not its relative speed to another), you could "get away" with 2.85 cm per year.
However, since we are talking about either North American plate or the Eurasian plate, you should use 1.15 cm/year or 0.95 cm/year. This would be a worst case of around 600 km.
- Tony