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The Pirate Bay Is Back Online

Many readers have submitted news that The Pirate Bay is back online, operating for now as "The Police Bay." Writes one anonymous submitter: "Pirate Bay got new hardware, moved the servers abroad and used recent backups. So the only bad side-effect of this police raid is that hundreds of clients of the ISP PRQ still have not got their servers back from the police. When the police did the raid on Wednesday, they took Pirate Bay from Bankgirot's secure server room. Then they also took all the servers in PRQ colocation facility STH3, effectively disabling a lot of small companies. The connection between PRQ and TPB? - Same owners, nothing more, this is beginning to become a huge scandal in Sweden with coverage on TV and all newspapers 4 days in a row."

108 of 934 comments (clear)

  1. Sucks to be the MPAA... by oberondarksoul · · Score: 5, Funny

    So soon they crowed victory, so soon will they be humbled. By the looks of things the takedown of the Pirate Bay was less than legal, and now with the 'Bay back online the MPAA must be feeling more than a little upset. Personally I'm of the view that the Pirate Bay was perfectly legal - they didn't carry any copyrighted works themselves, just as Google don't carry the materials they link to. What fun this whole affair will turn out to be...

    --
    And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
    1. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by Dredd13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pirate Bay is *more* legal than Google. Google at least exists in this "grey area" -- with things like Google Cache, and things like that, where they actually DO distribute the actual copyrighted content themselves occasionally. Nothing that the Pirate Bay serves up is actually copyrighted, since it's just .torrent files.

    2. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by Dredd13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly which law makes torrent files illegal? Please be prepared to cite chapter and verse.

    3. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by mondoterrifico · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Worst analogy ever.

    4. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by cduffy · · Score: 5, Informative

      The US has laws explicitly addressing "contributory infringement", where one assists others engaging in copyright infringement but doesn't do so themselves. Sweden doesn't. EOM.

    5. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by linvir · · Score: 4, Funny

      Your analogy sucks balls. The Pirate Bay would be more analogous to a gun distributor, with the actions of gun owners as their own responsibility. And even then the analogy only sucks balls a tiny bit less. In Anarchist Slashdot, balls suck analogies.

    6. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by Clopy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Horrible example. But in your own example, it would like if the police went after the manufacturer of the gun instead of the shooter. The PirateBay is not responsible for the use of torrents. Downloading TES:Oblivion would be perfectly legal in my country, as long as I also have had an original copy bought. It is not PirateBay's fault if I don't have the copy. PirateBay is legal, I am legal if I have bought a copy. Perhaps someone downloading from me could be illegal, but again that's not PirateBay's fault. That's his responsibility.

    7. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't under stand the finger analogy. Please use one involving a car.

    8. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by giorgiofr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wrong guess, I'm from the EU. My understading of copyright law in a foreign country a few Km away from me is not that bad, especially when I've been reading a bit about it. What you and your trolling friends refuse to admit is that TPB encourages and facilitates sharing copyrighted material. I will continue to use it no matter what Swedish law says (is it OK, is it not? Like I care...) but I will NOT kid myself into believing that TPB knows nothing about the Windows ISOs you can download thanks to their portal. The post I replied to was trying to get away with a ridiculous technicality which didn't make any sense, that's why I compared to another nonsensical one.

      The police raid of TPB (at the direction of the United States) is widely believed to have been illegal under the laws of the country in which the raid took place. Attempting to applying U.S. legal theory to the situation does not magically change the jurisdiction.

      Yeah, so what? I don't care about the raid, I am simply pointing out that TPB is happy to help with piracy. They don't host the material, OK. They're in the clear wrt Swedish law, OK. So what? It does not mean you can pretend that piracy does not take place thanks to their portal. Then if their law allows this, more power to them.

      Why does the United States and some of its citizens believe respecting the sovereignty of nations is optional?

      I don't know, ask an American. In the meantime, were you in favour or against the bombing raids on Milosevic? What do you think of regulating the activity of farmers in my country so that the farmers in yours get a better/worse ROI? And I could make countless examples... Don't believe Europe is immune to this kind of games. The USA are definitely not alone.

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    9. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by illuminatedwax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, ordinarily, police would love it if someone was distributing locations and phone numbers for drug dealers. Why doesn't the *AA thank them for giving them the IP addresses of illegal filesharers?

      --
      Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
    10. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by md04 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sorry, I am afraid that every good slashdotter knows that guns don't kill people.. Chuck Norris does.

    11. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by XSforMe · · Score: 3, Funny

      The MPAA wants to know which one is your favourite movie!

      The Curse of the Pirate Bay
      Pirates of the Baltic Sea
      The Return of the Pirate Bay

      Can you think of others? Let them know at www.mpaa.org!

      --
      My other OS is the MCP!
    12. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by dubbreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So why then would the US go after a company in sweden that does not have those law, while they leave local companies that go beyond "contributory" (ala google with their caching)?

      OK the answer is obvious, but what happens when all the torrent sites are shut down? Does the MPAA go after the search engines next?

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    13. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Moreover, what if the phonebook company would market their product specifically as a tool for hitmen, and even named their books "The hitman's lists"? It's hard to claim innocence with such a name...

      (Not that I don't agree with their service. The MPAA does deserve to go out of business. But claiming innocence about the service's intended usage is pushing it a little bit too far...)

    14. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by IndigoParadox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate to be cynical, but in my area they heavily traffic the interstate until everyone has a ticket for going 3 MPH over the speed limit. Back alleys aren't as profitable so they're not really a concern. =OP

    15. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by Hentai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      what happens when all the torrent sites are shut down?

      Incidentally, when's the last time YOU won a game of "whack-a-mole" with an infinite number of levels?

      --
      -Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
    16. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by el_nino · · Score: 4, Informative

      One difference between US and Swedish law is that in Sweden even non-commercial copyright infringement is a crime, which means that it is covered by the general rules for being an accessory or an accomplice to crime (Brottsbalken 23:4). This was never conclusively tried by the Swedish Supreme Court in the so-called "BBS case" (NJA 1996 s. 79), where the sysop of a BBS was prosecuted for letting users illegally share software. The reason is that the prosecutor never claimed that the sysop was an accessory or accomplice to acts committed by his user, instead claiming that the sysop was illegally making the software available to the public by letting users download the software from his BBS. The court held that the sysop could not be convicted because there was no act actually performed by the sysop, and because the prosecution hadn't initially claimed he was an accomplice to someone elses copyright infringement the court was unable to consider that possibility due to Swedish trial rules (Rättegångsbalken 30:3, som innebär att domstolen bara kan döma för en gärning som innefattas av åklagarens gärningsbeskrivning).

      Hence no one can be totally sure whether The Pirate Bay is legal in Sweden, because the legal precedent is not 100% clear. The question if intent should be very interesting here. While it should be evident that The Pirate Bay is set up with intent that people should be able to use it to commit crimes, the proprietors have no knowledge of what copyright infringement users are going to commit and no direct intent that those specific crimes will be committed.

      The claim that Sweden doesn't have laws against "contributory infringement" is wrong, however.

    17. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by SilentChris · · Score: 3, Funny

      I live near NYC. We have a lot of back alleys and everyone drives 3 MPH.

    18. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by houghi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not sure what country you are from, but where I am from the police needs evidence. They can not just arrest the owner of the number. They can not even just call him and ask him to sell them some drugs.

      In Belgium (where I am from) the cout has stated that it won't go after distributors who just share. It will only go after people who do copyright infrengements for money.

      So what would happen is the following. **AA gives the IP to the police. The police brings it to the court and the court drops the case. As this brings unneeded work to the police, they would NOT be happy with it.

      The local version of the **AA have tried to bring cases to court and where told to come back when money was exchanged. They also have tried to intimidate providers and some just informed their customers that they MIGHT be doing illegal and that that would be against the AUP. However as long as there is no courtcase, a provider can not give my information to SABAM (the local organisation) and they are not allowed to look wether I am sharing the latest SUSE torrent, a movie I made myself or the movie Daens.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    19. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by hotspotbloc · · Score: 4, Informative
      Pirate Bay is *more* legal than Google.

      Considering last weekend Google Video had a full copy (view and download) of "Fear and Loathing" I'd say they're tied. Hell, at one point it was number 35. I'm sure there was somekind of age-check-before-download (there has to be a single, cool word in German for that) to protect the children from such dangerous thoughts.

      A cache of the page: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ZwUcUdtinKUJ: video.google.com/videoplay%3Fdocid%3D-572069601692 0047541+google-video%2Bfear-and+loathing&hl=en&gl= us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox

      Shpxva' terng.

      --
      "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
    20. Re:Sucks to be the MPAA... by HexRei · · Score: 4, Informative

      The sole purpose of pirate bay is to facilitate crime,
      No. Their sole purpose is to host torrent files. Whether those are torrents of copyrighted works or public domain works is not something they consider, they host them either way. So your statement is inaccurate.

      Google removes things from the cache, the pirate bay tells people to fuck off.

      Well, duh. When its in google's cache, they are directly hosting it on their servers- that's a crime, no ambiguity included. Do you think they clear all pages of sites like TPB or www.torrentspy.com from their cache as well? Of course not, because they know its not illegal. In fact... hey look, a google cache of a page linking directly to a torrent file of a copyrighted work!

  2. The Top ten by yoharryo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nice to see an illegal copy of Vista is number one...

    1. Re:The Top ten by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nice to see an illegal copy of Vista is number one...

      Quiet, you - it's not criminally illegal, it's rightcopy defringement, or something like that. Yeah. It's in Sweden, and they're pirates, so that makes it absolutely all right. The fact that Sweden's got some odd legal loophole which makes it not a crime to post links to copyrighted material means that it's therefore absolutely not a crime to go ahead and download any of this copyrighted material, laws in the users' native countries be damned. Swedish pirates say what they're doing is fine, so therefore everything else they facilitate is too!

      Erm...

      Isn't actually downloading anything from such sites still illegal?

      I pay for stuff, or do without. It has its advantages, especially with games... ;-)

      * prances around in free Half-Life 2 T-shirt *

      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    2. Re:The Top ten by Legion303 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "* prances around in free Half-Life 2 T-shirt *"

      Looking at it from another angle, you paid $40 for a shirt. :)

    3. Re:The Top ten by Blue+Stone · · Score: 4, Funny
      Berrating a supporter of copyright infringement: $0.02
      Bragging about paying for Half-Life 2: $35.00

      Claiming that a bundled t-shirt is free: er ... priceless.

      For everything else, there's Pirate Bay.

      :-)

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    4. Re:The Top ten by Tweekster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you ever considered that it isnt a loophole and just the way the law is supposed to be. They have known about it for a long time, if it were a loophole it would have been "fixed" maybe that country wants it to be that way.

      Kind of like Russia and allofmp3.com. Maybe the Russian legislature just wants the law to work that way, they have had ample time and obviously been pressured to fix it, yet have not.

      And btw, downloading stuff might very well be illegal for you, but the internet is a global network, which means laws of one country do not apply everywhere, yes yes, I know this is a difficult concept to grasp but it is true.

      BTW, i wouldnt be proud if I were wearing a half life 2 tshirt.

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    5. Re:The Top ten by Surt · · Score: 3, Funny

      Given that he was prancing around in it, I'd have to guess the attention would not be unwanted.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  3. Political campaign for the Piracy Party by paugq · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Looks like the Swedish Police is making a free, wide and very positive campaign to favor the Piracy Party. I bet they will be getting a lot more votes thanks to this weird operation. Thank you Swedish police officers!

    1. Re:Political campaign for the Piracy Party by Husgaard · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Yes, their member count has almost doubled. And for the last few day they have gotten about 1000 new members each day.

      With the kind of support this incident has raised, they are now likely to enter the swedish parliament in the elections in september.

      Although (still) officially denied, it looks like TPB was raided on the direct order of the swedish Minister of Justice, Thomas Bodström, after pressure from MPAA and the US government. This is highly illegal in Sweden, and the leader of the opposition in the swedish parliament has requested an investigation.

    2. Re:Political campaign for the Piracy Party by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With the kind of support this incident has raised, they are now likely to enter the swedish parliament in the elections in september.

      Any word on how they're doing in the polls? I've just looked at the member stats, which are sort of an open issue, because the smallest party in parlament (Green Party, 247000 votes) just over the 4% margin (225000 votes) has about 7200 members, the pirate party only 5000. The ratio of votes to members seem to vary greatly though, but the Green Party is in the good end. E.g. the central party has 50-80000 members (depending on how you count) and 350000 votes. Since the number is growing so rapidly it's hard to tell, but I wouldn't say "likely" just yet. Then again, this might be the sort of party not that many "publicly" become members for but could vote for on election day. I really wonder what'll happen in september...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  4. Investigators liability? by LinuxGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, at what point does it become the responsibility of the police to do enough homework to make sure that their investigation dosen't harm many other businesses that are completely uninvolved in the search for evidence? What recourse do the other effected isp customers have?

    --

    Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
    1. Re:Investigators liability? by Depili · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Remember that this is Sweden, not USA we talking about, in here the police doesn't have any more leeway when it comes to laws than normal citicens. (Ever so often we get to read about wich high up police officer got how big traffic tickets etc [the fines are based on income rather than being a fixed sum]).

      So please try to remember that not every contry works the same as America (and I'm really happy that it's so, frankly America and the American mentality scares me.)

    2. Re:Investigators liability? by Svartalf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Basicly, as long as the police are conducting an legitimate investigation you don't get anything.

      According to the Swedish news coverage, there is some legitimate doubts as to whether it was a legitimate investigation or not. Their laws don't make linking to infingements an illegality. As such, since The Pirate Bay didn't host anything that is illegal per Swedish law. Now, it gets even better than this. According to people over there the national police happen to keep whingeing about not having enough manpower, etc. to enforce problems like drug trafficing, etc. and little gets done about real problems- but they can muster 50(!) people to "bust" a place that doesn't do anything illegal per their laws as a result of pressure being put on them from MPAA and others in the US. It's my understanding that there's a lot of people pissed about it over there right now.
      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    3. Re:Investigators liability? by mkw87 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      frankly America and the American mentality scares me

      Try living here...

      --
      Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
    4. Re:Investigators liability? by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Oh come on ... the video from the surveillance cameras shows they took their sweet time checking out the server racks. They didn't have to take all the hardware they took (and who the fuck needs to wear camo on a raid of a server room anyway?).

      The warrant was for seizing the servers hosting TPB; any seizure exceeding that was outside the scope of the warrant, and that's why they (the police and the minister of justice) are in the crapper - taking something that's outside the scope of the warrant is theft. That they covered the security cameras with garbage bags partway through just makes them look guiltier.

      So - either:

      1. the police couldn't properly identify the hardware in question, in which case they were incompetent, and should have called in someone with more expertise, or
      2. they could, but over-reached.
      3. they purposefully grabbed more than they were entitled to, hoping for a backlash against TPB for causing the inconvenience
      Those are the only options. How much you want to bet it was #3, seeing as politicians and the **AA were involved? This is a very public cluster-fuck, and someone will have to pay, both politically and financially.
    5. Re:Investigators liability? by popeguilty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As an American, I spend a lot of time alternately baffled, terrified, annoyed, and enraged at my fellow citizens. We're a bizarre place.

    6. Re:Investigators liability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      BZZT! Wrong!
      In Sweden, you have even less rights than in the US. In the US, you have Miranda rights, proper search warrants (that have to be shown to the suspect), standars of admission for evidence (i.e. illegally obtained evidence is not admissible in court), you name it. In Sweden? None of these.

      Go check out http://www.avslaget.se/ and find out just how many rights you have as an innocent suspect.

    7. Re:Investigators liability? by Znork · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "(groundless searches, SLAP-style shutdowns, excessive destruction of property)"

      Both groundless searches and excessive destruction of property would be possible in this case; there has been no attempt whatsoever of the parties to in any way hide what they're doing, there has been public debate on the issue, there have been court cases giving credible support to the idea that linking is not infringement, everything's been open and available. Even seizing the actual pirate bay servers might be excessive, there is no grounds to suspect any destruction or tampering with evidence would be done; the parties in question do not consider their content illegal.

      Basically it reeks of intimidation. Anyone around you doing something the MPAA doesnt like? Never mind if it's illegal or not, better get them to stop, or _you_ will be targeted. Collective punishment without due process.

      They even took DNA from the _legal counsel_. In a possible contributory IP infringement case?? What are they going to use that for? As it has no value as evidence whatsoever, one can only assume they're planning to place it on some other crimescene or hand it to foreign intelligence. I cant think of any reasonable reason to take it, so the conclusion has to be they have some unreasonable purpose.

      This isnt justice. This is state-sponsored political terrorism.

    8. Re:Investigators liability? by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Informative

      Now, it gets even better than this. According to people over there the national police happen to keep whingeing about not having enough manpower, etc. to enforce problems like drug trafficing, etc. and little gets done about real problems- but they can muster 50(!) people to "bust" a place that doesn't do anything illegal per their laws as a result of pressure being put on them from MPAA and others in the US. It's my understanding that there's a lot of people pissed about it over there right now.

      Agreed, I'm a Swede and there are problems with police shortage in many cities here. Ours would basically celebrate if we got as few as 10-20 more our way to, you know, handle abuse and rape and drug cases.

      To make matters worse, the Swedish police have also earlier said they aren't intending to prioritize these cases too much, which made a lot of sense given the overall situation. Then this happens, where they get 50 officers to arrest 3 people and clean 1 server hall. If it weren't for the serious matters here, I'd start trying to come up with "how many Swedish police officers does it take to screw in a lightbulb", but I'm to annoyed to be in the mood right now. :-p

      Anyway, thankfully, the case with piracy involved hasn't scared away politicians, and a political party member has contacted the Parliamentary Ombudsman part for these reasons, part for others in this controversial move (like not granting lawyer defense for one of the arrested, but still for another), and it remains to be seen whether any actions will be taken against Thomas Bodström.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    9. Re:Investigators liability? by Husgaard · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The video shows that the police covers up the cameras, so they most likely wanted to hide something during the raid. And I guess that they forgot that they were in a high-security hosting facility - most likely the swedish secret police is p*ssed at them for covering the cameras.

      They are liable for any damages, including downtime for legal services. They have publicly confirmed that after the raid.

      And most likely they will end up paying big time. Instead of just taking TPB's servers as the warrant allowed, they took all servers hosted by the same hosting provider . Most likely to make an (illegal) example, trying to make the hosting provider go bankrupt and instill fear in other hosting providers. About 200 legitimate businesses in Sweden are down right now because of this.

    10. Re:Investigators liability? by smidget2k4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is of course, unless you are labeled a "terrorist" here and sent off to some secret prison, never to be heard from again.

      Does Sweden have secret prisons where they can hold you indefinatly, without a trial, and without a reason?

    11. Re:Investigators liability? by 6Yankee · · Score: 4, Funny

      "how many Swedish police officers does it take to screw in a lightbulb"

      Two - but how do you get them in there?

    12. Re:Investigators liability? by ruiner13 · · Score: 4, Funny
      "and who the fuck needs to wear camo on a raid of a server room anyway?"

      No kidding. Much more effective camo in that terrain would be a Sun microsystems hat and a half-life 2 t-shirt. And don't forget the sweat pants! He'd be nearly invisible!

      --

      today is spelling optional day.

    13. Re:Investigators liability? by Black+Pete · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why was the parent modded as Flamebait?

      He's right -- the video does indeed show the police covering up the cameras with garbage bags. Until the cameras were covered, the video doesn't show much: A bunch of guys standing around looking at the servers, chatting on a cellphone, a guy pointing around at the cameras(!), etc.

      I was immediately suspicious once the cameras were covered -- I'd have thought the police (of all people) would welcome the cameras since it'd be hard proof that everything they did was on the up and up, they have video backup for when they testify in court, the defendant(s) can't claim they planted evidence, etc, etc.

      When the police covers up cameras to hide their actions, that shows very clearly they know they're planning to do something questionable (if not outright illegal). In my books, that's not flamebait, that's worth investigating.

      The fact they took a whole bunch of servers rather than just TPB is hardly flamebait-worthy either. It's a serious issue. Especially for the (more) legit businesses involved.

  5. Examples Please! by kwandar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can only hope this is causing a huge scandal s Sweden as stated by the article. Can any Swedish readers provides us a synopsis of some of the reports on tv and in the newspaper?

    1. Re:Examples Please! by seezer · · Score: 5, Informative

      This guy http://tpbeng.blogspot.com/ is translating local news to english.

    2. Re:Examples Please! by Caine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Virtually all major swedish newspapers (http://www.aftonbladet.se , http://www.dn.se/ http://www.expressen.se/ http://www.svd.se/ are leading with the "Pirate War" and news that Pirate Bay is back online.

      Media coverage have so far been very good, concentrating on the mismanaged raid, suffering of other hosted servers and the fact that the raid was not in line with the popular will.

      Swedish state television have also done a news report connecting US lobbying and the swedish minister of justice to the raid, which is seen as extremly bad. Several other politicians and the justice ombudsman have started investigation into the legality of the raid.

    3. Re:Examples Please! by Hinhule · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There have been numerous articles showing both sides of the story, often in the same newspaper.

      The swedish national TV station (funded by every household with a TV) ran a story based on an informant, basicly saying that the minister of justice was running errands for the white house. Ordering the takedown of the pirate bay even though prosecutors had already looked into it and found that they couldn't justify a takedown. The minister of justice and his departments actions are currently being investigated.

      There have been an online poll showing that about 87% think that music copying is ok. Most people also think that music piracy would go down significantly if a music CD had a resonable price.

      Oddly there have been no mention what people think of actual programs and games being copied. So as far as the masses are concerned they think TPB is used only to copy music and movies.

      I would like there to be an article around the fact that if TPB is found guilty of assisting copyright violations. Where do you draw the line? What about google or any other search engine? What about community sites, several cases of rape and pedophilia has been caused by connections made on such sites, are they assisting these crimes as well?

      Lots of people are outraged that the police already low resources are being wasted on copyright violations when people don't want to go alone at night out of fear of rape / muggings.

      All in all I think the media coverage have been better than expected.

  6. Location of servers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the IRC channel, it sounds like the new servers are located in the Netherlands with hot backups running in Ukraine. The MPAA just got rocked. If it wasn't so damn early, I'd drink to this news...

    1. Re:Location of servers... by thelost · · Score: 5, Funny

      a true pirate starts drinking before the sun hits the yard-arm. yarrrr

      --
      Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!
  7. Amazing! by Sj0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it's turning into a major scandal, could this mean that people in Sweden generally don't think gestapo-like tactics are justified to take down a few people downloading video games and TV shows?

    Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that talking about war isn't actually talking about peace, and that freedom isn't actually slavery.

    --
    It's been a long time.
    1. Re:Amazing! by masklinn · · Score: 3, Funny

      Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that talking about war isn't actually talking about peace.

      God damn it, do you mean that fucking for virginity doesn't work either?

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    2. Re:Amazing! by skrolle2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Usually when the police over here is covered in media, they are complaining about lack of funds, there are too few policemen, minor crimes go uninvestigated, and the general feeling is that the police doesn't do its job.

      And now the police did a large-scale raid, not against drug smugglers, traffickers or other organized crime which people actually care about, but against file-sharers. As a result of a direct order from the minister of justice (who btw is not allowed to do that), and as a result of pressure from a foreign power.

      So we have a situation where the police doesn't have manpower to do what people want, but when the US wants to shutdown a legal Swedish site, there's suddenly plenty of resources available. THIS pisses people off enormously. The average Joe couldn't care less about copyright or filesharing or the Pirate Bay, but this blatant misuse of the police is something a lot of people care about.

    3. Re:Amazing! by Xemu · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Usually when the police over here is covered in media, they are complaining about lack of funds, there are too few policemen, minor crimes go uninvestigated, and the general feeling is that the police doesn't do its job.


      Apparently child porn creators and distributors are enjoying their freedom because of the raid.

      There are very few (much less than 50) Swedish policemen with proper IT-investigation skills.

      One of the more disturbing news reports relating to the PirateBay raid is that out of the 50 policemen used in the raid, several were pulled out of ongoing child porn investigations, causing these child abusers to roam free longer.

      Now, that is very offensive to most civilians, as there is consensus that child porn distribution on the internet is a much more severe crime than copyright infringement of anything.

      --
      Tell your friends about xenu.net
    4. Re:Amazing! by Surt · · Score: 4, Funny

      God damn it, do you mean that fucking for virginity doesn't work either?

      Actually, I am pleased to inform you that fucking is in fact how all virgins throughout all of history were produced. Stay the course!

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    5. Re:Amazing! by phauxfinnish · · Score: 3, Funny

      there is consensus that child porn distribution on the internet is a much more severe crime than copyright infringement of anything.

      What about copyright infringment of child porn?

  8. CCTV footage from the raid.. by scredda · · Score: 5, Informative

    ..is available at YouTube. For some reason the police covered the cameras with plastic bags halfway through.

    1. Re:CCTV footage from the raid.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      For some reason the police covered the cameras with plastic bags halfway through.

      Why would they do that? Do they have something to hide!?
  9. Thank you, Sweden! by Atario · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As an American who's disgusted with the current Copyright Cabal running roughshod all over everyone and everything, I'm glad there's somewhere in the world where this crap inspires the mainstream rage it should. GO GET 'EM.

    What's it like in Sweden? What's a nice time of year to visit? Are there programmer jobs available? Do you still have that bikini team?

    Be seeing you...

    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    1. Re:Thank you, Sweden! by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sorry, all those gorgeous blonde women are in their 40's. Nowadays, all we have left is chubby girls who look like raccoons.

    2. Re:Thank you, Sweden! by NoMaster · · Score: 4, Funny
      Nowadays, all we have left is chubby girls who look like raccoons.
      Pics?

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    3. Re:Thank you, Sweden! by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Funny
      all we have left is chubby girls who look like raccoons

      That'll do for Shlashdotters.

      --
      That is all.
  10. Demonstrations by hanssprudel · · Score: 5, Informative

    There will be demonstrations in Sweden's largest cities this afternoon, condeming the actions of the Swedish police and department of justice in this matter. It is being co-organized by the Pirate Party, and the youth organizations of several mainstream parties from across the political spectrum.

    In Stockholm it starts at 15:00 on Mynttorget (right by parlament). That is in 15 minutes so hurry!

    In Gothenburg a demonstration will start at 16:30 on Gustav Adolfs Torg.

    1. Re:Demonstrations by mkro · · Score: 4, Informative

      And if you agree with what they are doing and want to support them, here is the donation link. SMS donations work from several countries, and makes giving a few bucks quite hassle free. I did, and feel way better than after buying a ring tone this way.

      --
      I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
    2. Re:Demonstrations by Darby · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't see anything about freedom. I see a lot of stuff about not wanting to bow to the US,

      Wow, it's right there staring you in the face. Or, do you have some bizarre definition of freedom?

  11. How many.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..cops does it take to change a light bulb?
    50. One to do it and 49 to confiscate every other light bulb in the house as evidence.

  12. Two political parties have alread filed complaints by DaveRexel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Representatives from two major political parties in Sweden, Folkpartiet and Vänsterpartiet have filed formal complaints against the Minister of Justice and members of his staff.

    This has increased the general publics awareness of The Pirate Bay and probably increased the number of p2p users.

    A very nice shot in the foot for the Swedish Justice Dept., the police and our very "customer friendly" **AA organisations.

    --
    # ~: no sigs today
  13. not to sound like a party pooper by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but if they are in the netherlands now, what is to stop the dutch police from doing the same thing?

    yeah sure, it's a giant game of whack-a-mole, but isn't the lesson here to do to thepiratebay what was done to napster?

    that is, when the riaa/ mpaa behead these entities, they go underground and become headless

    that is: no central server. thus, napster morphed into morpheus, kazaa, edonkey, et al

    which is the real lesson for the mpaa/ riaa: you don't kill this "infection", you only make is more resistant to your antibiotics

    the mpaa/ riaa is breeding superpiracy

    you would think that instead they would coopt the pirate bay, legitimize it

    but no, they have to fight where it would be wiser to collude. they just breed a stronger foe, drive this behavior further underground, and not stop one bit of it, and just make it much more difficult to ever stop

    their behavior is creating the culture of piracy. if they embraced and extended, instead of exterminate and berserk, the mpaa/ riaa would create a culture that would say "hey, this stuff is cheap, and high quality, and easily organized... why would i want to go to a bad quality copy of my media that is hard to find?"

    surely they see that that is all they are doing, no?

    they are digging their own graves

    you can't fight technological progress

    this genie is not going back in the bottle

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  14. Moved to The Netherlands.... by tsvk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Judging from a traceroute, the servers seem now to be hosted in The Netherlands.

    I'm a bit surprised, when the admins of TPB said in Swedish media that they will relocate abroad, I actually thought that they would move outside the EU.

    Let's see how the Dutch officials will react to this; how long TPB will stay up before they try to take it down again.

  15. Pirate Bay admin interviewed (in English) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    In Chaosradio International #009 one of the maintainers of TPB called "Peter" mentions traffic data and server capability of TPB and also comments on the Pirate Bay induced traffic on the Swedish part of the internet. According to Peter, each of the Pirate Bay high end servers handles about 20000 connections per second. This kind of packet flow once brought the main router of one of the biggest Swedish internet service providers to its knees. The traffic volume to and from the Pirate Bay actually isn't very high, just a couple of gigabits per second. The induced traffic between the peers allegedly reaches 50% of the total Swedish internet traffic. Swedes can get 1Gbps connections to their homes and don't have to pay an arm and a leg for it. 100Mbps is quite common.

    The interview also covers the political environment and the internet culture of Sweden, and of course the raid.

  16. The Swedish Chef Reports: by DrunkenTerror · · Score: 4, Funny

    Feele-a shereeng seete-a Zee Purete-a Bey, vheech ves clused doon fullooeeng Vednesdey's reeed by zee Svedeesh puleece-a, oopened egeeen oon Setoordey murneeng under a deefffferent neme-a: Zee Puleece-a Bey.

    Zee seete's perffurmunce-a ves steell petchy et loonchteeme-a oon Setoordey, despeete-a beeeng roon frum noo serfers in Hullund effter ell zee Svedeesh iqooeepment ves cunffeesceted. Bork! Bork!

    Zee reeed, vheech ves cerreeed oooot et husteeng cumpuneees in Stuckhulm, Fästmunlund und Fästra Götelund tergeted oone-a ooff zee vurld's lergest seetes fur shereeng mooseec, gemes und cumpooter prugremmes.

    It ves prumpted by a cumpleeent tu puleece-a frum Unteepuretbyrån, vheech represents zee Svedeesh feelm und mooseec indoostreees' cupyreeght interests. Bork! Bork! Bork!

    Un infesteegeshun egeeenst Zee Purete-a Bey hes beee oongueeng fur munths. "Ve-a beleeefe-a thet ve-a veell be-a fuoond nut gooeelty," seeed Fredreek Neeej, oone-a ooff thuse-a roonneeng Zee Purete-a Bey, tu Ixpressee. "Ve-a ere-a gueeng tu cunteenooe-a unteel zee ferdeect cumes. A-yup!"

  17. Check out the new logo just updated! by biscon · · Score: 4, Funny

    The changed the old logo adding cannonballs shooting from the pirate ship smashing a hollywood sign. Way to go my proud swedish brothers. I admire your balls! (ehm.. well you get it).

  18. not a victory by plams · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These news may be great for filesharing people worldwide. But from a political point of view the Piracy Party has not won until the the servers are back up on swedish territory.

  19. Re:MPAA/RIAA press release by Ann+Coulter · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, for the record, 2006_05_31.pdf.

  20. Becoming a huge scandal in Sweden... by D4C5CE · · Score: 3, Insightful
    this is beginning to become a huge scandal in Sweden with coverage on TV and all newspapers 4 days in a row
    And deservedly so, if the seizure is indeed comparable to trying to fight crime by bulldozing an entire law-abiding, tax-paying business district on the vague rumor that someone might probably have bought a fake brand T-shirt once from a street vendor somewhere in there.

    And no matter what statistics anyone may have come up with (or forged), Bittorrent is just a highly efficient means of distributing perfectly legal stuff such as Linux releases, scientific lectures and speeches, or free renders. Much like a knife is a proven instrument for cutting food, rather than reason for suspecting an intent to kill someone.

    BTW if the laws had teeth against some real ills of the information age, and if the authorities were similarly responsive, though hopefully in a more targetted way, against botnet operators perpetrating DDoS and spam, we wouldn't need to have discussions like these for more than a decade already...

  21. Server logs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The torrent files that the Pirate Bay hosts are, it appears, legal in Sweden. However, the copyright infringement being perfomed by the individuals who download those torrent files and use them to make unauthorised copies of other people's work is certainly not legal in Sweden.

    So, what's the likelihood that any records they may have kept of who's been committing copyright infringement are now in the hands of the Swedish police, the Antipyratbyran, and indeed the MPAA?

    Pretty high, I'd say. Expect more raids soon... but this time, targetting the people who are committing the actual crimes, rather than the people who are exploiting legal loopholes to facilitate them.

    1. Re:Server logs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Listen to the interview. According to one of their admins, they don't keep logs. He specifically mentions that they aren't stupid like that.

  22. safety by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But do we feel safe that we used pirate bay? It's not insane to think that the police will follow up IPs of DLing torrents and use this as "reasonable" evidence to investigate further in other countries (USA for example), then take this as far as to taking down trackers or even tracking down single IPs and sueing/arresting people.

    --
    I like muppets.
    1. Re:safety by Ex+Machina · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They've always been able to do this by connecting to a running torrent and seeing the peer names.

  23. Re:MPAA/RIAA press release by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not use the MPAA's bandwith?

    http://www.mpaa.org/press_releases/2006_05_31.pdf

  24. Re:Could someone please explain by Mikkeles · · Score: 4, Informative

    A .torrent isn't copyrighted and linking to copyrighted material isn't either.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  25. Well duh... by raehl · · Score: 4, Funny

    Software pirates don't have guns.

    This wouldn't have happened if those network admins were armed.

  26. Re:MPAA/RIAA press release by Cartzca · · Score: 5, Funny

    "The MPAA has a multi-pronged approach to fighting Internet piracy, which include educating people about the consequences of piracy" Is this going to be the old-school 'piracy == terrorism' line? I hope not; I'm look for a more SouthPark style: 'Here's X's private jet, notice anything? X used to have a Gulfstream 4, but now she's had to sell it and get a Gulfstream 3 because people like you used to download her music for free. The Gulfstream 3 doesn't even have a remote control for its surround sound DVD system. Still think downloading music for free is no big deal?'

  27. Re:The average Joe may care more in future... by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Informative

    Helping someone to break a law is in itself illegal.

    Contributory infringement has to be direct, not indirect. Pointing someone to a computer that has a chunk of a file is indirect. Giving them that chunk is direct.

    The difference is important - otherwise, your electical company, your landlord if you rent/your bank if you have a mortgage, the company that made your computer, the chair you sit your ass in to type, and the boss who pays your salary so yo can afford all the shiny toys, would all be guilty of contributing to infringement, since without them you wouldn't be able to infringe the copyright. Oh, and the government as well, since they regulate the telecom industry and provide the environment that allows you to do all these things.

  28. Re:MPAA/RIAA press release by fbjon · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's interesting, they compare the popularity of thepiratebay.org (21st in Sweden by Alexa), with CNN.com (125th in Sweden, Alexa). Color me surprised: a swedish site is more popular in sweden than an american site.

    --
    True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  29. Re:Could someone please explain by Jon_A_Mnemonic · · Score: 3, Informative

    A torrent file is basically an "assembly instruction manual" for data file(s). Just as it's not illegal to distribute instructions for building a bomb or a gun, it is also not illegal to distribute instructions on how to create a data file. Actually building (or using) a bomb might or might not be illegal, but merely delivering the instructions on how to build it is definitely not illegal (at least in the U.S., so far). Just so with torrents: hosting the torrent files, distributing them, downloading them, that's all legal. Actually using the torrent file to "build" the data file(s) it represents is what is illegal, if the file(s) being (re)built are copyrighted.

    If you want to start a website that does nothing but provide instructions on how to build bombs, you can do it. Even if every single person who downloads those instructions uses them to build a bomb and tries to blow up a packed church on Sunday.

  30. Re:No one to root for by linvir · · Score: 5, Insightful
    incredibly expensive shows like 24 and Lost WON'T EXIST if they can't make money
    Welcome to the world of tomorrow! They'll adapt their business model eventually, and they'll start making shows available online. Or they'll keep their hands clamped over their ears and shout "LALALALA!" louder and louder until they go out of business. You're one of these people who thinks that it's the customer's duty to give a shit about producers, and that's just not the way it's supposed to work.
  31. Pirate Effect by stickytar · · Score: 3, Funny

    well it was online... till we slashdotted it.

    --
    believing the big bang requires a certain amount of supernatural faith
  32. Re:ARRRR!! by Epsillon · · Score: 3, Funny
    Umm wait a minute, do pirate's dance merry jigs? =P
    Possibly not, but certain law-enforcement agencies may do, especially when they shoot themselves in the foot this many times...

    Nice feral apostrophe, by the way. Haven't seen one of those for a while.
    --
    Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
  33. Re:The average Joe may care more in future... by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Copyright infringement is illegal.

    The devil is in the details. In this case, "most of the western world" would probably disagree quite strongly on a) what constitutes infringement, b) how long works should be protected for and c) what the punishments should be.

    For example, I doubt you'd find many people who think downloading a song that gets played ten times a day on free to air radio should be considered infringement. Similarly, you will probably not find a lot of sympathy for media companies claiming to be "suffering" from copyright infringement in the face of ever increasing profits and ever decreasing product quality.

  34. Re:No one to root for by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Welcome to the world of tomorrow! They'll adapt their business model eventually, and they'll start making shows available online. Or they'll keep their hands clamped over their ears and shout "LALALALA!" louder and louder until they go out of business. You're one of these people who thinks that it's the customer's duty to give a shit about producers, and that's just not the way it's supposed to work

    Wow...you sure completely missed his point. Yes, they'll adapt their business models, to only produce those kind of shows that can make money even when widely pirated. His point is that this class of shows will include fewer, if any, good shows.

    TV and movies are not like music, where the artists make most of their money outside of sales of the music (e.g., bands make their money from their concerts).

    Piracy fails the "what if everyone did it?" test. When it is a small, underground activity, it likely actually helps music and movie and TV revenue, by acting as advertising. If it becomes the mainstream way of getting content, however, then it does make it uneconomical for the producers of content (except for news and for programs where the view interacts with the show, such as by voting on what contestants win or lose).

  35. Your help is needed! by inerte · · Score: 4, Funny

    Quickly, citizens!

    The Pirates have gone global this time. They can change their port with the tidal waves of mind crimes and its nefarious actions.

    It's not time to save on resources. The criminals can move between countries in a matter of days.

    We need the help of a new super-hero spotted in Canada previous week! Only him can track down the Pirates and sunk their ship of infringments around the Earth.

    Support the fantasy! Don't let our dreams die!

    Captain Copyright, our prays are with you. Save us from the Pirates!

  36. Re:One word by Eudial · · Score: 4, Insightful
    honeypot


    Why would they set one up? I mean, bit torrent is completely open. Anyone can get your IP when you download off a torrent.
    --
    GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
  37. Re:No one to root for by vertinox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    5) Slashdot sucks, because most people here don't see the immorality of file sharing, and don't see that incredibly expensive shows like 24 and Lost WON'T EXIST if they can't make money. We might actually be seeing the fall of good video programming. It may not exist in 10 years, except for amateur junk.

    You were pretty good up to this point...

    And I must say I support file sharing exactly for this reason.

    I want mass media to die an ugly death!

    Lost to me (although better than most other crap they put on television) still represents what makes me ill about television. Maybe I'm just bitter over "Enteprise's" failure or the cancelation of "Firefly" but I am disgusted by most cookie cutter music and lame stories that make no sense and waste millions of dollars to make movies and TV shows that are unoriginal and could be made by an ad lib script.

    The only thing I bother today is Adult Swim on Cartoon network because of the imported Anime... Heck... My movie collection is nothing but foreign films because some reason... When you don't have kiss butt to a hollywood director and fix script problems with CGI and million dollar actors... You are forced to make entertainment the hard way. (Which is why I love fan fics remakes of star trek).

    If these moguls lost quit making emo boy bands and crap movies... The world would be a better place.

    If no one made money from art, then only true artists would make art... Plain and simple. Of course they'd be starving and need patrons like they did in the Middle Ages, but Da Vinci made quite a living without the need for copyrights of his work.

    Maybe I'm an art house bourgeois uppity bastard who only like foreign films, but I'd like for one day in my life to be able to turn on the radio or TV and see something that is more than just "entertainment". I'd like to see art.

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  38. Re:No one to root for by xigxag · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) TPB sucks, because they're just leechers making money off of other people's copyrighted work, all the while disengenuously crowing about "freedom".

    I suppose Used Booksellers are leeches in your eyes as well. Should we shut them down too?

    incredibly expensive shows like 24 and Lost WON'T EXIST if they can't make money.

    How does filesharing substantially hurt 24 and Lost? The shows have already aired and made their money by the time they get onto filesharing sites.

    Honestly, if networks and cable companies would get together and allow rebroadcasting on demand of major shows, the vast majority of people would simply do that if they missed a broadcast. Or they could allow downloading of the show off their website, complete with commercials, in a time-limited "secure" format that would expire, say, a month after initial broadcast date, so as not to interfere with DVD sales. Most downloaders would probably go for something in pristine quality that would be easy to locate and download, over the dubious quality of an anonymous fileshare.

    Anyway, the point is that this is not about making money. There are plenty of ways for them to make money off the internet with their shows, as they are beginning to discover. This is about control. The suits have shown over and over again that they resist any attempt to lessen their total control over the distribution of their product, even when it can make money for them. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming every step of the way.

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
  39. Re:The average Joe may care more in future... by persnowfall.se · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Under Swedish law, what matters is your intentions in the act that constitutes a crime. Google or my electrical company has no specific intention in helping me breake the law. In the case of The pirate bay on the other hand you would IMHO have trouble arguing that they has no intention in helping people violate copyright laws. Exibit A, there logo, Exibit B, their name, Exib... eh, you get the picture.

  40. Police responsibility is a catch 22 in Sweden by the-intersocialist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Swedish police has more leeway in Sweden then in the US because we don't have any institution to audit them. In american police (at least judging from police movies, correct me if I am wrong) it is considered improper for somebody to investigate themselves and therefore there are special police units that investigates on the actions of policemen. Here in Sweden it is the same polices doing internal investigation as all other investigation.

    Also when it comes to courts. In the US you have a right to be judged by your peers (in theory, atleast). In Sweden you have the right to be judged by your politicians - remember, those same people who apparently ordered the bust (which they had no right to do, as so many others have pointed out).

    The Swedish legal system is a catch 22 when it comes to govermental responsibility. The police carries out the orders from the politicians, the police investigates itself if anyone complains that their actions were illegal and if that investigation shows something was not right the politicians get to judge whether it was right or not of the police to carry out their orders.

  41. It's a huge victory. by babbling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The MPAA, US government, and Swedish police took down the The Pirate Bay website. If I told you that was about to happen, you'd probably see it as a very bad thing for bittorrent file-sharers and Swedes.

    Instead, the action has been criticised in Sweden, gained the pirate party a lot more support and publicity, and the website has been put back up within about 2 days. Now it's hosted in other countries, and if any of those countries attempt to take it down, you can bet that it will again get widespread coverage in the news.

    The Pirate Bay has gone from being a website into an idea. The MPAA thought they could just take it down and that would be the end of it. Instead, it seems that any attempt to take it down just gets support for file sharers and causes copyright laws to be questioned. Other countries can take it down, too, but the Swedes have set an example - there will be political backlash every time someone tries to mess with The Pirate Bay.

  42. Re:The average Joe may care more in future... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm sorry, but pretty much everything in your post is wrong.

    Contributory infringement has to be direct, not indirect.

    No, contributory infringement is inherently indirect infringement, also known as secondary liability. Maybe you're getting confused by the fact that there must be an underlying direct infringement which is contributed to.

    Napster, for example, was found liable for contributory infringement because they were aware of infringements on their system (having been expressly told about them by copyright holders) but nevertheless continued to materially assist the users who were directly infringers. All Napster did was to provide a technology and and index of links, remember.

    They're not alone. It's actually not that uncommon to see linking result in liability.

    Pointing someone to a computer that has a chunk of a file is indirect. Giving them that chunk is direct.

    Also your example fails, because giving someone a file will not be contributory infringement, it will be direct infringement, in the form of distribution.

    The difference is important - otherwise, your electical company, your landlord if you rent/your bank if you have a mortgage, the company that made your computer, the chair you sit your ass in to type, and the boss who pays your salary so yo can afford all the shiny toys, would all be guilty of contributing to infringement, since without them you wouldn't be able to infringe the copyright. Oh, and the government as well, since they regulate the telecom industry and provide the environment that allows you to do all these things.

    No, for two reasons. First, the law differentiates between factual causes and proximate causes. For example, let's imagine that A negligently runs a red light and hits B. B can sue A, but he can't sue A's mother. A's mother is certainly in the chain of factual causation: if she hadn't had A, A wouldn't have hit B. But she is too far removed from the car crash for liability to stand.

    Second, one of the elements of contributory infringement is knowledge of the infringement at the time of the contribution. It is incredibly unlikely that any of those entities will have the slightest idea what you're doing at the time when you download something unlawfully. Therefore they're off the hook.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  43. Re:No one to root for by saleenS281 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and you entirely missed his point. Which was: either those shows can begin to provide the content online for people who want to download it and watch it on a computer, or they can lose their ass to piracy. Most people are willing to watch a few commercials if they can download the show they want, when they want it.

    Not everyone, myself included, has time to be at their TV everyday at a given hour to watch their favorite show. I hate to break it to you, the studios aren't making any money when people Tivo either. I suppose next you'll tell us all how horrible it is when people skip the commercials using their Tivo? They can adapt their model, or they can die. Someone somewhere along the line will figure out how to provide those "expensive" shows on demand, and they'll reap the benifits. If not the current regime, then whoever replaces them. Stop being so naive and stop eating all the shit the **AA throws on your plate.

  44. Pick better examples next time by __aailob1448 · · Score: 3, Funny

    24 and Lost won't exist? YES! YES! YESSSS!

    *Starts pirating in earnest*

  45. Re:No one to root for by GroeFaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow...you sure completely missed his point. Yes, they'll adapt their business models, to only produce those kind of shows that can make money even when widely pirated. His point is that this class of shows will include fewer, if any, good shows.

    I'm not exactly sure he missed the point. The central expression is "good shows". "Good" by what definition? Is he worried that humankind will not see the n+1st season of 24, x years from now? Or that he won't? I just fail to see the link between countable commercial success and some ill-defined, subjective definition of "quality" if applied to entertainment. Just look at what shallow, voyeuristic crap your general-prupose, mind-wasting TV program mostly consists of today. No imaginable change could make that much worse, in my opinion. But maybe someone can tell me why shows that have been designed with ~100% piracy in mind must under any and all circumstances be worse than those today?

    TV and movies are not like music, where the artists make most of their money outside of sales of the music

    How very shortsighted. Is this another law written into stone, not subjectable to change? An actor's public image is determined mainly by what role(s) he plays and what he says and does in public outside of movies, and not primarily by how much money his movies make. Of course, if an actor doesn't rake in cash with his movies, he won't play in many movies, but if NO movie makes box office money (assuming ~100% piracy), then the playing field is level again. Just think of how much money is made through merchandise. Of course, merchandising does by far not work for any movie, but as a matter of fact, the most succesful movies in term of box office nowadays are all movies with lots of merchandising potential (Star Wars, Matrix, LotR, Harry Potter, Spiderman, X-Men, etc. etc.). The actor can furthermore capitalize on his/her success in various other areas involving public appearance. Think of something, I'm getting tired of laying it down.

    Piracy fails the "what if everyone did it?" test.

    Examples like Apple's iTunes' success (and most TV consumers' laziness, btw) show that this scenario will remain what it is today: an industry scarecrow far from reality. There are (or could be) just so many more aspects to a movie or music CD than just retail price. If you can't compete on price alone, get ahead on other aspects. It's really simple, and does not even require a fundamental change of business model. This whole war of *AA vs. The World is nothing but the industry's struggle for a price monopoly irretrievably lost to file sharing. Now it's real competition, not just the pseudo-competition of Sony Music vs. Warner Records or Paramount vs. New Line Cinema.

    In conlusion: Don't paint the future so bleak, it's just not going to be as bad as you might think. Don't just take current trends and extrapolate them without boundaries, you will almost certainly overshoot. There are too many economic realities which will persist even in the remote future. To change them, a fundamental economic change would have to happen as well.

    --
    The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
  46. Re:What exactly are we supporting here? by Surt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem is, you're wrong with your bottom line:

    The bottom line is this: copyright infringement DOES cause serious problems. It causes money not to go to shows/movies/etc. It causes creative ventures to be cancelled. It causes people to lose jobs (not just the stars who have money -- people like the crew that have little).

    It's actually the copyright in the first place that causes the problems. It creates an unnecessary cartel of employment and jobs that hurts the rest of society. Art used to be about performance before the copyright cartel, and most of the works of art that people consider great were created under that system, not under the copyright system. Many of us believe, with well developed reasons, that the world would be better off without any copyright.

    Yes, some jobs will be impacted. Jobs that needn't have existed in the first place, and that are essentially leeches upon the rest of us, like most lawyers.

    Other jobs will be created, and in the balance, all of us will be better off.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  47. Re:What exactly are we supporting here? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am supporting them as an effective pressure group to bring copyright law back in line with the desires of the people. Personally, as a commie, I'd rather see copyright being abolished outright, but for something more realistic, the Pirate Party programme (5-year copyright term, noncommercial copying unrestricted) sounds just about right to me.

  48. Re:What exactly are we supporting here? by jaelle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, no, some channel doesn't. I did not buy a single cd in the 15 or so years prior to my discovery of p2p. Not one. Because the music I heard sucked and too many cd's were full of bad songs. 15 bucks for a single song is just too much.

    Since p2p, I've been on a music buying spree. I'm finding music I love everywhere, download the entire cd, and then buy it direct from the artist. I like my audio uncompressed and in it's natural state, and most music lovers I know feel the same way. At first I bought from stores, until RIAA sued it's first kid. I immediately began boycotting RIAA affiliated stores and musicians.

    The music industry is not losing money on piracy. They're making more than ever. What they *are* losing is the musicians they've been treating as slaves all this time. If they'd treated fans and musicians decently from the start, this would never have been an issue.

    So that's the real-world result of 'piracy'. Musicians are actually getting my money for the first time since I was a teenager.

    --
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
  49. Gasp! by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gasp! Are you saying that American law isn't the supreme law of the world? Handed down by god himself to the puritans, so that they might convince the entire world of the immorality of nipples, pot, and sharing?

  50. Why can't we see them doing it? by Paul+Crowley · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We have footage of police wandering around, and footage of cameras with plastic bags over them. Why no footage of a policeman putting a bag over a camera? In this country, CCTV cameras are mostly arranged so that if you try to disable one, you'll be caught on camera doing it by another.

    I really want a still image of a policeman putting a bag over a camera that I can distribute far and wide.

  51. Re:The average Joe may care more in future... by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think a lot of people here aren't looking at the bigger picture. Whether you like it or not, the vast majority of the international community in the western world does agree on some basic legal principles: ...

    ... and the overarching principle in international law is the sovereignty of nations to govern their own internal affairs, set their own laws, etc. The US getting the Swedes to violate their own laws and procedures is in direct contradiction to this.

    Unfortunately, the US seems to think that it can still play the superpower game, when in fact its more of a "first among equals" situation.

    Remember, 95% of the planet doesn't live in the US, and isn't governed by US law or practices. With the international flow of information, etc, we can cherrypick our virtual location on a case-by-case basis. For example, want to criticize country A? Set up a server in country B. Want to criticize country B? Set up a server in country A.

    Corporations have long been doing the "cherry-pick a jurisdiction" for all sorts of things, from labour to legal venue. They're pissed off because now the average Joe can and is taking the same loopholes.

    Being relistic (I know, this is slashdot, so realism may be seen as extremely off topic), the whole **AA problem is the result of an industry that was, historically speaking, for most of its existence, a decentralized cottage industry, that for a short time, thanks to advances in technology over the last century, became a big, "manufacturing-type" business, and is now in danger of returning to being decentralized again thanks to further advances in tech, and people's refusal to let themselves be manipulated the way they used to be.

    What are they going to do in 20 years when we don't need singers, actors, key grips, cameramen, etc. ... when everything can be simulated by a hobbyist sitting at a keyboard, and when virtual worlds have more grip than a "stupid linear movie"? The answer - they won't do anything - they'll be gone.

    TV, movies and music are already losing people to the net, games, etc. This is because there are still only 167 hours in a week, and every hour spent online or playing a game is an hour less to watch TV or see a movie.

    On a related note, Nintendo's Wii is probably going to hurt Sony's entertainment business as a whole, as its pitched at the general population, and will drag millions more to spend more time playing rather than watching Sony's library of movie properties. The idea behind blu-ray or an hdtv player in a console is to "tie in" other forms of entertainment. People are going to vote with their wallets.

    If Hollywood wants to continue to compete, they're going to have to justify their access to the consumer's most valuable resource - time. So far this year, they haven't - their movies suck to the point where even downloaders don't want to bother, its a waste of bandwidth and disk space and TIME.

    Like I said, time is your most precious asset, and what they want. Ask yourself this - will movie theatres even exist 20 years from now, when the average consumer will have a 10-foot wall screen, surround sound and immersive environments where people can meet, party, and play? Or are they going to go the way of the drive-in, bulldozed to make way for housing.