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DIY Carrier Grade Linux with Debian

An anonymous reader writes "Carrier Grade Linux, once the domain of big-bucks Bells and commercial software vendors, just became more attainable for universities, companies running high-availability web services, and average Linux hackers interested in learning what goes into the world's most reliable, maintainable, and available systems. The Debian project, backed by HP, has launched the Debian-Carrier Grade Linux subproject, and registered Debian-CGL with version 2.02 of the CGL spec. LinuxDevices has created a simplified version of the registration form that lets you see which Debian packages to apt-get, and which packages you'll have to download and compile out side of Debian, in order to get your own Carrier Grade Linux setup."

22 of 75 comments (clear)

  1. carrier-grade linux by spud603 · · Score: 3, Funny

    An excellent example of the clarifying power of hyphens.

  2. Carrier grade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Personally I'd rather wait for torpedo grade Linux.

    1. Re:Carrier grade? by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally I'm waiting for Food Grade Linux.

    2. Re:Carrier grade? by jc42 · · Score: 3, Funny

      You want a Linux designed to blow up and destroy ships?

      Even if we get this capability in linux, it'll be ridiculed for being years behind Windows. (That's one of about 1.4 million online pages about this incident.)

      It's sorta like the constant chant that linux "isn't ready for the desktop" because it doesn't treat its users as horribly as Windows does. Similarly, linux can't be considered "battlefield ready" until it can duplicate the disasters that the military has come to expect from their software.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:Carrier grade? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Funny
      theres no information here on whenever or not penguins are edible

      Yes, they are edible, and have been on the menu for a long time. http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/antarctica2/ask/new/Peng uins_as_food_for_humans.txt The flavour is ok - sort of halfway between dolphin and bald eagle.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  3. I had no idea what carrier grade means by Nate+Fox · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Grade_Linux

    Carrier Grade Linux' is a set of specifications which detail standards of availability, scalability, manageability, and service response characteristics which must be met in order for Linux to be considered "carrier-grade" (i.e. ready for use within the telecommunications industry). The term is particularly applicable as telecom converges technically with data networks and commercial off-the-shelf commoditized components such as blade servers.

    1. Re:I had no idea what carrier grade means by jc42 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, my first thought was "Hey, linux isn't just for toasters anymore; now they're putting it into air conditioners."

      I do wonder how long it'll be before Carrier sends them a C&D letter.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  4. For those of you who don't know... by vishbar · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Carrier-grade" means that the server pipes all incoming data directly to the NSA.

    --
    Ride the skies
  5. Wikipedia by flood6 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was lost as hell over this summary and even TFAs. Here's some help, apparently "Carrier-Grade" refers to telecommunications carriers, which can typically accept no more than 30 seconds to 5 minutes of downtime per year from their servers.

    1. Re:Wikipedia by smbarbour · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmmm... Let me know when someone finds a "carrier-grade" carrier. I have yet to find any carrier with 5 minutes or less of downtime per year. Our current carrier is at approximately 24 hours of downtime per quarter-year.

    2. Re:Wikipedia by parc · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're mistaking carrier-grade voice service with a data SLA.
      Carrier-grade services require that a telco provide dialtone, routing, completion, and ring within certain time limits a certain percentage of the time. In all my years of dealing with telcos, I've only missed a dialtone twice. I've gotten failed routing far more often, but still well within 99.999% of the time. My data circuits, on the other hand, have failed often.

    3. Re:Wikipedia by rcw-work · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Hmmm... Let me know when someone finds a "carrier-grade" carrier. I have yet to find any carrier with 5 minutes or less of downtime per year.


      Telcos feel they need 99.999% uptime from their equipment in order to provide you with a much lower level of service - typically 99.9% for a T1 or an analog voice line, occasionally 99.99% for a set of redundant circuits.


      Our current carrier is at approximately 24 hours of downtime per quarter-year.


      That's roughly 99%. If this is a T1, you should be able to do ten times better. Your SLA should provide a clause to escape your contract if it's really that bad. However, find out what the downtime is caused by - if it's local loop issues, then it's not the CLEC's fault, it's the ILEC's fault and you're still stuck with their wiring no matter who you choose. The best thing to do in that circumstance may be to demand a different physical circuit from your existing CLEC.

    4. Re:Wikipedia by jc42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [A]pparently "Carrier-Grade" refers to telecommunications carriers, which can typically accept no more than 30 seconds to 5 minutes of downtime per year ...

      Well, if we measure this in a way comparable to the way that phone companies measure uptime, it'll mean measuring the time that the OS responds to pings. A machine that is a total zombie, with no processes making any progress, will be considered "up" if you can ping it from a nearby machine.

      After all, we are all familiar with phone systems that give a dial tone (i.e., is "up") but can't make calls, or makes them but doesn't transmit sound in one direction, or has so much noise that the speech is unintelligible. But none of these problems are considered "downtime"; the most common definition of "up" is providing a dial tone within N seconds.

      Since a recent upgrade, my wife's Mac Powerbook has repeatedly gotten into a state that it doesn't respond do any input except mouse motion. We can show it's alive by movingg the mouse and watching the pointer move on the screen. But button clicks or keyboard input have no effect. I can ping it from another machine, but I can't telnet or ssh to it. The on-screen clock changes once a minute. I'm sure that Apple would consider this to be "uptime" for OS X, along the lines of the phone companies' way of measuring their 6-nines "uptime". And when we finally give up and reboot it, that's not considered "downtime" either, since it was done intentionally by the user.

      Something very similar happened on my RH linux box a year or so back. But I can't replicate it.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    5. Re:Wikipedia by Khyber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The on-screen clock changes once a minute.

      Could that be simply because OSX and Mac OS (versions 9 and below,) do *NOT* show the seconds that pass by? *points to his default-install 72-D version iBook running OSX 10.2.8 and his Powerbook 190c running Mac-OS 8*

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  6. Debian Is Top Dog by devphaeton · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Debian has long been 'the example' IMHO. RedHat got all the fame and glory, but Slackware and Debian really showed what Linux should be like.

    I just wish all these projects (i.e. ubuntu) that base off of debian would give them more credit.

    --


    do() || do_not(); // try();
    1. Re:Debian Is Top Dog by JerkBoB · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I just wish all these projects (i.e. ubuntu) that base off of debian would give them more credit.

      How?

      From About Ubuntu:

      Ubuntu is a free, open source operating system that starts with the breadth of Debian and adds regular releases (every six months), a clear focus on the user and usability (it should "Just Work", TM) and a commitment to security updates with 18 months of support for every release.


      It's right there in the first sentence... Perhaps you want a large blinking banner at the top of ubuntu.com?

      A large number of the Ubuntu devs are (wait for it...) Debian devs, too. Ubuntu regularly contributes back to Debian. I'm sure there are political squabbles, but to say that Ubuntu doesn't give credit to Debian is nonsense.

      Bleh.
      --
      A host is a host from coast to coast...
      Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
    2. Re:Debian Is Top Dog by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Debian has long been 'the example' IMHO. RedHat got all the fame and glory, but Slackware and Debian really showed what Linux should be like."
      That is your opinion. There is no one size fits all.
      Some people want a simple, easy to install Linux.
      Some people want the latest and greatest Linux
      Some people want the most stable Linux that will provide the most up time.
      There are many projects that show what Linux should be like. Some projects are useless or redundant but if that makes there developers happy so be it.
      Debian is a very good project but I would say that Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, Gentoo, and Slackware are all good projects and each really shows what Linux should be like. Flexible and adaptable.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  7. CARRIER HAS ARRIVED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    apt-get install interceptors

  8. Carrier-grade Windows? by ortholattice · · Score: 2, Informative
    Although the concept struck me as amusing, given that carrier-grade requires 99.999 (5 nines) to 99.9999 (6 nines) percent reliability, still I couldn't imagine that MS would allow itself to be trumped by this.

    And, sure enough: from Google, "carrier grade Linux" - 114000 hits, "carrier grade Windows" - 17 hits (but still, not 0). The top Windows hit is from 1998: "a Microsoft white paper available at SUPERCOMM '98 will discuss carrier-grade Windows NT Server-based systems." Well, at least they talked about it, you gotta give them credit for that. Haven't heard much about it since, though.

  9. Do we need this ? by amias · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Seems like a good idea at first but if you have 5-30 minutes downtime per year
    that means one very quick kernel patch per year . If you are really concerned
    about uptime applying patches in a timely fashion is just as important as
    hardening the system to start with.



    Obviously starting with solid proven code should mean less patches are needed
    but nobody is perfect and what about new functionality ?



    That kind of uptime is IMHO more a function of your hosting environment and the
    hardware you choose , this is going to be a waste of time for anyone but the
    carriers who can afford it . You would do better to have multiple servers in seperate
    locations , a nifty routing/caching setup and a sensible Develoment/Production regieme.



    Still its a nice stick to beat microsoft with , even if it is a bit too bendy :)

    --
    [site]
  10. Telecom carrier? by PhYrE2k2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Telecom carrier? I'd doubt it. Internet service provider- fine- but they're not a carrier.

    Telecom carriers are Long Distance providers, and Ma-Bell providers around the globe. They are the ones that provide power into your home for your phone service as well as the service itself. They are the ones that do switching entirely on closed circuts.

    Carrier grade is usually coined as 5-9's (9.9999%) which is friggin amazing. It's what the systems are designed for, and they usually pull it off.

    -M

    --

    when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
  11. Carrier grade doesnt count scheduled downtime. by BrookHarty · · Score: 3, Informative

    Thats the dirty little secret, scheduled downtime. As long as you schedule the downtime, its still carrier grade. I've yet to see a service even with maintenance windows stay up for a month. Service in terms of big pile of servers running multiple applications with a big fat database cluster behind it. YMMV.