A Cleaner, Cheaper Route to Titanium

Burlap writes "Using technology developed at MIT, 4-person startup Avanti Metal hopes to reduce the cost of producing Titanium from the current $40 per pound to a mere $3. The article discusses how a special combinations of oxides and electrolysis separates the titanium metal from the Earth's abundant titanium oxide ore."

Comments

Apples and oranges...

[THotze]

I always love articles like this when they compare the price of MAKING something with the price of SELLING something. Titanium's sold on a market sort of like oil... prices fluctuate based on demand more than they do based on the cost of production.... if the price of titanium is $40 this year, and was half as much last year... last year it was $20, and I'm SURE that people were making a profit selling that, so it was produced for probably a maximum of $15, probably more like $10/lb.

So yes, this saves money... but it needs to be done in a large scale, 1st. I don't know how they come up with a cost/lb estimate that they consider to be more than VERY ball park estimate... $3 could be $6.

Its substantial savings, but its not like we're going to be able to start planning our houses with titanium frames in a few years or anything. And that's assuming that demand doesn't keep skyrocketing above supply... in which case we could have the same price (or more!) regardless of how much it costs to produce titanium.

Tim

Re:Apples and oranges...

[Andy Dodd]

"and, although I'm not a metalurgist, is there any reason that titanium couldnt replace steel almost entirely if it was cheap enough?"

In addition to being expensive, titanium is NOT easy to work with.

Re:Apples and oranges...

[big tex]

"and, although I'm not a metalurgist, is there any reason that titanium couldnt replace steel almost entirely if it was cheap enough? "

One word: welding.

OK, I'm drunk, but bear with me. I weld best this way, so explanations should work as well.
Welding steel is easy, really easy. It can be done outside, with nothing but a constant-current power source and some flux coated rods (SMAW,or 'stick' welding). This requires a minimal amount of skill. Move on to some better equipment, say wire feeders and constant-voltage machines, and we can weld sheet metal like it's nothing (GMAW) or lay down some structural fill in a hurry (FCAW or SAW). I can teach someone to weld FCAW in a few hours, provided they're smart enough not to burn themselves and not look at the bright lights without a shield.

Titanium oxidizes like a little bitch. Basically, the largest part of welding technology is creative ways to keep oxygen, hydrogen, and those other things in the air away from the weld puddle. This can be done by flux (SMAW, FCAW, SAW), or by shielding gasses like CO2, Ar, He (GMAW, FCAW, GTAW). The only good way to weld titanium is by using TIG (GTAW). This is the most skilled, labor-intensive, slowest process going. I can lay down steel welds for bridge in pounds per hour, but titanium takes hours per pound.

Now, more available titanium should lead to a titanium MIG (GMAW) process, but that's still small potatoes compared to SAW, GMAW, and it can't really be done outside. (I don't want to hear about the trailer you welded in your driveway. Try it two stories up in the wind, or on a barge, and we'll talk). To provide another point of reference, the high production and field processes (SAW, FCAW, SMAW) don't work with Aluminum, the 20th century's miracle metal, because they are flux-based and Aluminum doesn't do flux-based, flat out. Titanium will be the same way.

In summary, titanium is kept in limited used in industry because it's hard to weld, not because it's expensive.

Re:Apples and oranges...

[scheme]

In addition to being expensive, titanium is NOT easy to work with.

Just as an illustration, welding titantium in a normal atmosphere will cause it to become brittle. You need an inert atmosphere (e.g. argon) at the weld point and on the cooling joint to protect it. Any iron or steel contamination will also screw things up.

Re:Apples and oranges...

[modecx]

Just as an iustration, welding titantium in a normal atmosphere will cause it to become brittle. You need an inert atmosphere (e.g. argon) at the weld point and on the cooling joint to protect it.

You're right, you need a good supply of argon to keep hot titanium from forming oxides or nitrides with atmospheric gas. It's an amazing thing, nearly *all* of the non-aviation titanium welds I've seen were not done right, and they have either an amber tint (not good) or a blue tint (really not good), and often a little rainbow of colors somewhere inbetween. The one exception I've noted is the race car industry. They actually do it right, and lives depend on it, so it's a good thing. The aftermarket parts for cars though? Holy shit, that stuff is ALWAYS FUBAR, and if it were to serve a purpose like strut bars for race/street cars, I imagine they'd crack if they were actually used for a few good hours. The funny thing is that I'm sure they think those colors are pretty!

Anyway...

Awesome!

[eric434]

I took Sadoway's class last year. Awesome guy -- this is right up his alley (making things more environmentally friendly).

Here's a PDF presentation on the process:
http://web.mit.edu/dsadoway/www/MOE_Ti.pdf

Re:I'm surprised

[AtomicBomb]

The concept is not new: basically the same as the Hall cell for aluminium production. But, I believe finding a suitable salt is not that easy. In the case of aluminium, cyrolite is used. In titanium, what's the suitable one? Suppose you mix Ti2O3 with another metal salt, you may get another metal instead of Ti. Needless to say, the whole electrolysis process gets quite messy at 1500+ degC.

Re:Aluminium?

[Deadstick]

Twice as strong vs 1.6 times as heavy, higher melting point, better resistance to corrosion and fatigue.

rj

Re:I'm surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Another cleaner, cheaper route for Titanium production has been developed in Cambridge, UK.

Reach about the FFC Process for Titanium Extraction.

Re:Aluminium?

[Frangible]

Several reasons:

1. Insulation; titanium is less condutive of heat/electricity. This can be a benefit or detriment depending on the application.
2. Strength; the same amount of Ti/Al alloys to support a specific load can be made with a lighter weight of Ti. An equal volume of Ti is heavier than Al, though.
3. Fatigue life; titanium, like iron, has infinite fatigue life. Aluminum does not. What this means is you can make a spring from Ti but Al will fail if repeatedly stressed.
4. Corrosion; titanium is more corrosion resistant than Al because it oxidizes rapidly in contact with air
5. Social reasons; titanium has significantly more percieved value than Al, moreso than the material differences. Further Ti has a unique color as well.

Sometimes aluminum will still be better; in many applications the relative strength difference doesn't matter and thus a lighter equivalent volume of Al is advantageous. Also, the high conductivity of Al is a good thing in many situations.

The most common Ti alloy, Ti-6Al-4V, actually has 6% Al in it.

Inexpensive Russian Titanium..

[thesupraman]

Of course they are carefully looking at the AMERICAN price for titanium production..

It is much much cheaper in Russia, as it is basically produced as a side effect of steel production there due to the different ores available.
Most significant titanium users source their titanium from Russia, and there is little interest in other sources as Russia just has the right ores anyway.

Oh well, good try though.

Re:Ad problem.

[RockModeNick]

Thats incorrect. Any good steel shear, including the wiss tinsnips in my tool drawer, will cut a titanium ring apart easily. Titanium may have a better strength to weight ratio than steel, but steel is much harder at simular or even smaller actual size and as such will easily shear titanium.

Re:One of my first jobs

[Beltonius]

I'm currently working at a company specializing in Ti and Ti alloys/composites.
I have little to no faith in this actually producing anything substantial within the next several years.

Why? I have read about this same guy pitching his process for the past several years, and my company has a file on him going back almost a decade; he's been saying his process will yield results 'soon' for far too long for me to readily believe him.

Last year, even, I read a presentation he gave, and it consisted of little more than a brief high-school chemistry explanation of electrolysis (which is all this is, same process that produces hydrogen and oxygen from water) and stating a hope that they will build an experimental cell soon. Apparently he's gotten that far, but 200 mg aren't going to help much to combat the currently sky-rocketing Ti prices.

And yes, they are very high right now. Half our work is focused on improving Ti recycling processes so that scrap can be used more widely; the rest of the work is biomedical applications where cost is not an issue.

The point is: Yes, if this works it could mean a much cheaper/environmentally friendly (I'm a little doubtful of this; yea, there won't be concentrated TiCl or Cl gas lying around, but it's an electrolytic process, it will use lots of electricity, and that will produce extra waste) process. This is a conceptually simple process; basically it requires experimentation to get the parameters right. He has spent very little time actually experimenting.