Slashdot Mirror
Final Fantasy vs. Oblivion
An anonymous reader writes "bit-tech has up a short comparison between Final Fantasy VII and Oblivion. While Oblivion is touted as the latest and greatest PC-based RPG, Final Fantasy VII is held in the minds of many gamers as the best RPG of all time. From the article: 'At the time of its release, nearly ten years ago, FFVII received rave reviews from the press and the public, and it has a claim to being the best loved Final Fantasy game ... In a Top 100 Games of all time, it would be up there in the single digits. It is, by all accounts, Sergeant Pepper-Citizen Kane great. If something is great, it should be great whenever you pick it up -- buy a fresh copy of Pepper or Kane now and they'll still blow you away: they were great in '67 and '41, and they're great now. Is the same true of FFVII?'"
No. The graphics aren't as great as they were perceived when it first came out. I'd much rather play a great sprite-based game (FFVI) than a game with early 3D graphics.
Then again, graphics aren't everything. But FF6 beats it in the story department, too. And the gameplay department.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
FFVII isn't even the greatest of the final fantasy games- 4,6, and 9 blow it out of the water.
That said, I'll take even 7 over Oblivion any day- RPGs are about the story to me, and sandbox RPGs have way too weak a story.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
4 Copies? Get the bad copies resurfaced at a used music store, and sell 'em on ebay or something. They just stopped taking trades on them at GStop / EB, so know in advance that wont work. But seriously, you're sitting on some possible value there.
Nostalgia makes everything old seem good. FFVII was a great game (perhaps the greatest) in it's time but any flaws it did have fade from our collective minds over time. I say the video game press should let people keep there fuzzy memories and stop this endless stream of lists of top games and apple orange caparisons between the modern popular games and the classics. If this is the only way to fill the pages of a gaming mag (or blog or site) that should tell us something.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Personally, I think SW:KOTOR is the best PC (and Xbox) RPG in the last few years. Oblivion had such an open world, but just about everything was linear in it - dialog choice was pretty much fixed, and about the only player choice was whether to sneak or not for each quest. With KOTOR, there was multiple choices for practically every quest, with the 'light-side/dark-side' system. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it certainly made it more entertaining and gave the game more replay value.
If you took someone new to gaming, and said, "tell me what an RPG is," and gave them Oblivion and and FF7 as examples, I doubt they would really be able to complete the task. Seriously - Japanese RPGs and CPRGs (I guess, for lack of a better term) are so different there really isn't any utility in classifying them in the same way. Don't get me wrong, I like them both (haven't played Oblivion yet - really liked Morrowind, in spite of its weak main story - and I loved FF6) but such a comparison just seems to me like a way to either drum up page hits or start a fanboy war.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
They're pretty dissimiliar games. Final Fantasy 7 is pretty linear, has turn-based combat and a more traditional leveling system. Oblivion is mostly non-linear, has real-time psuedo-FPS style combat, and has a less traditional skill based leveling system. Comparing the two is almost like comparing Command and Conquer to Civilization because "they're both strategy games".
No, I havn't RTFA, and don't intend to.
The article is not a real comparison between two completly different games but about why the author prefer a game more than the other...
IMHO, the whole article is biased, just take a look at the screenshots, do you see any of Oblivion ?
For me, a really interesting article would have been build around the differences between eastern RPGs and western RPGs. Trying to analyse the reason why each genre is fun in its own way, trying to improve them in mixing concepts but still respecting the specificities...
I enjoyed both games, but non-linear games don't really do it for me. First of all, I don't have time to put a million hours into a single game when there are so many out there to play. That's why I decided to give up MMOGs completely - or if I try one I only play the trial month and then quit (as I did with World of Warcraft and Everquest 2).
Also I just personally prefer linear games over non-linear ones - especially when it's an RPG and the story is the reason that I'm playing. Everything can be so much tighter and efficient in a game that has you follow the story closely.
For the record, I liked FF7 more than FF6 but not as much as FF9.
The story line in nine was quite weak and I had a hard time getting attached to any of the characters. Plus the character design was weak, the main 16 year old princess looked like she was 9.
The game play was it's redeeming factor but I loved the flexibility of the materia system much more.
Hmmm... Pie...
Oblivion nor FFVII can hold a candle to FO2.
Although, I get teary eyed everytime I want FF:Advent Children mostly over Aeris's death. I think that is the only game that has ever made me cried.
For some reason FFVII made me very emotional throughout the game, but I don't know if it was because I was young or if it was the first game to do that.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
it should be noted that the same people who say Citizen Kane is the best movie ever are the same people who say it is the most overrated movie ever. And before you ask here is one source.
So, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for FF7 to be the same way, afterall when something is hyped up so much, it is bound to be viewed down a bit too...
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
Final Fantasy wasn't the greatest RPG per se. Most RPG fans will say there are other games which stand out far more such as Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Ultima VII, or Fallout. It was simply an RPG that for some strange reason was loved by so many, even those who hate RPGs in general. I would say that its the same thing as what happened with World of Warcraft. Most expected WoW to be a success, but it's instead been a monumental achievement the likes of which investors dream of when they invest in a company.
I wouldn't call FF7 the Citizen Kane of RPGs or games, but rather I'd call it the Star Wars of the gaming industry. Noone I think really expected it to explode into the success that it was and reach such a larger audiance (I dont think anyone who had a PS1 didnt have FF7). On top of that, like star wars it seems each recent sequel can't find the same place in people's hearts that FF7 found. It was strange indeed, but I think its success can largely be attributed to many little things. Things ranging from marketing and publicity down to the twists in the story and Characters in game (Sephiroth is still by far one of the greatest villains ever). I can still remember working on leveling my characters up all day just so I could beat the Ultima creature.
As far as keeping it fresh and would FF7 still stack up today? No... I don't think so. Unfortunatly games have made moves in recent years that are so major it can't be helped but not feel impressed by games like FF7. Sure FF7 will always carry the nostalgia love with it, and while its story and characters are still top notch, you cant help notice some things that have been improved on since (graphics aside) and perhaps wish that PS3 tech demo at E3 was actually being made into a FF7 remake =)
Hum yes, Its not fair for Oblivion to compare it to FF4-5-6-7-9 because they're just all better in my opinion.
But lets not mix apples and oranges. FF & Oblivion are not the same type of RPGs. They're both beautiful games (in terms of graphical eye candy - for when their time anyway).
Oblivion is more about freedom, exploration and interactivity while FF is more about your classical RPG where the hero saves the princess from the raging dragon.
But i have to admit that square enyx has done a good job at disapointing me with some of their latest installments, notably, FFVIII and FFX (and x-2) I havent played the online game and not quite looking forward to play FFXII, because they've become shallow - compared to my beloved 4-5-6-7-9 whose story was quite compelling.
If you look like your passport photo, you're too ill to travel. - Will Kommen
Oblivion bored me to tears before long (granted, pretty long - 50 hours).
Haha, same thing's happening here. I've put in ~50 hours doing most of the town-related sidequests, all of the Dark Brotherhood quests (best so far, definately), and I'm working my way through what appears to be the only other set of interesting guild quests (Mage's guild). I've also progressed maybe 25%-30% of the way through the main storyline (though with a character that I've stopped using because he sucked).
I'm getting REALLY bored with this game. I don't even think that mods can save it at this point, and I doubt I'll ever play it again once I stop. I'm seriously considering just finishing the Mage's Guild quests and then using the cheat that zaps your character to the next quest location to finish the main quest quickly and get all of the story, as Oblivion gates are damn dull places, and it's not like I need to level up any to finish the game, as it all levels with you anyway.
Compare this with Morrowind. I played the main game at least 150 hours, and probably closer to 200, with and without mods, over several different sessions sometimes separated by months. I played through both major quests in the Bloodmoon expansion TWICE each, at least another 50 hours there, and another 30-40 spent going through the Tribunal expansion. Probably the most time that I've ever devoted to any game.
If they'd release that exact same game again with Oblivion graphics and a few of the updated gameplay features (like time schedules for NPCs and the plant harvesting method, and the new face creation system is nice), I'd re-buy it at $50 and very likely sink another 100+ hours in to the damn thing.
Console RPG, yes. There's no clear winner in PC RPGs with contenders like Planescape:Torment, Fallout, and Ultima IV.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
If we assume for a moment this guy ain't a shill then all he is showing that he prefers adventures over RPG's.
The simple fact is that the western RPG ala Baldur's Gate is a totally different genre then the japanese "RPG" ala the Final Fantasy series. The biggest single difference is that you do NOT have a choice in the japanese "RPG". Why do I use quotes? Because I am a westerner and as such think that RPG's originate with the D&D Pen & Paper style games. These games were not just about fighting and levelling up or being told a story. They were about making choices. The dungeon master would tell you the situation and then the game starts with, what do you do.
The western computer RPG usually tries to give you choice, choice as to what you play, choice as to how you play and choice as to well what choices you make. There are costs involved. The non-choice character Planescape Torment gives you a far stronger story then say Icewind Dale where you create your own party. Yet PT is as free as a bird compared to the on-rails gameplay of Final Fantasy.
If anything the Japanese "RPG" in western eyes is closer to an adventure with stat based fighting. Adventures are great games but usually not known for their free form story telling. Linear is the word most often used. I amazed to see games like Fire Emblem labelled as an RPG. Exactly where is the RP element?
You therefore in my eyes can't compare the Final Fantasy with Oblivion (although Oblivion does suffer from a lot of linear quests) because fundementally they belong in different genre's.
To me, a western CRPG lover Final Fantasy doesn't count as a great RPG, a mediocre RPG or even a bad RPG. I don't count it as an RPG. Doesn't mean it is a bad game. It just ain't a RPG.
I am not totally alone although I realize it is hard to come up with enough labels to eh label all the various game genre's. Lets just settle for Japanese RPG and Western RPG. Most people here would know what is meant by that including that comparing games between the two is futile.
This reviewer probably hasn't learned that distinction and was either burned by Oblivion thinking that ALL RPG's are like Japanese RPG's. Either that or he is an idiot.
As for this being posted by Zonk, well big supirse there.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
For starters, I never owned a console system until the now-deader-then-a-doorknob Dreamcast, and my enjoyment of RPG games didn't start until many years later. That being said, I think it's a poor comparison to take a game from (almost) 2 console generations ago and compare it to a recent PC release. Almost everthing is different: controller vs keyboard/mouse, linear story vs non-linear, gameplay style, and timeframe. Using an old game vs a new one only allows the older players to make an informed comparison. Everyone else (especially including myself), gets left out, so to speak.
Meh, a real sig would take too long, and I have an MMORPG to play with....
Every gamer has a momemt, sort of like losing your gamer cherry. You never forget the first time a game moves you to tears, makes you laugh out loud, or scares you so much you have to turn on the lights and turn off the computer.
I didn't get FFVII, but I was 30 at the time. I had already played Ultima Underworld, Lots of Wizardry, and more traditional CRPGs. I'm sure if I was 13 and I had a Playstation, things would be very different.
I don't begrudge anyone their favorite game. I think it's great that people are passionate about it, and want to share the experience with others.
For the record, my "first game" was Ultima Underworld II. There's a portion of the game where you need to raid the tomb of a king, and his ghostly court tried very hard to stop you. When you reach the king, you realize they weren't trying to stop you from stealing his treasure, but were trying to keep you from letting him realize he was dead. At that moment, I had a feeling that I had done something very wrong... much worse than just stealing a trinket.
If you think Oblivion and Morrowind (and BG and BG2 and all the other great non-linear RPGs) have too little story then you are playing them too linearly. Yes, if you play the main quest of Morrowind and finish the game in 20 hours then you will encounter less story than in an equivalent 20 hours of FF play. But that isnt how the game is supposed to work. I have spent THOUSANDS of hours on Morrowind, and never even beaten the game. There are *BOOKS* of backstory in the game. Entire villages full of vocal and interactive characters that you never encounterd if you played the linear way. Hundreds of quests, thousands of lines of dialog.