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Why Startups Condense in America

bariswheel writes "The controversial genius developer/writer/entertainer Paul Graham writes an insightful piece on Why Startups Condense in America. Here's the skinny: "The US allows immigration, it is a rich country, it is not (yet) a police state, the universities are better, you can fire people, work is less identified with employment, it is not too fussy, it has a large domestic market, it has venture funding, and it has dynamic typing for careers. Inquire for details within."

86 of 565 comments (clear)

  1. Better Universities? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Another good article by an intelligent man.

    But I don't agree with all of it:
    4. American Universities Are Better.
    That's odd, all the studies and anecdotal evidence presented to me suggest otherwise. I don't think the universities themselves are better, you're just more likely to make better contacts here than abroad. And the only reason for that is because Americans have money and a lot of them use it to invest (as Paul pointed out).

    I've been through undergrad and grad schools in the US and I have to say that there were more than a few courses where I didn't learn anything.

    Why is he asking about Universities in Europe? What about Eastern Europe or the Ukraine or Russia? What about the results to the programming challenge that everyone made a big fuss about? What about China's Universities?!

    I'm not as confident about the US as Mr. Graham is. In fact, I'm kind of afraid when someone like him writes an article like this because it feels like we're creating a false sense of security as an industry leader.
    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Better Universities? by swv3752 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you filter out the remedial courses that US Uni's offer to get US students up to speed, they are better than most foreign Uni's. In Japan, College is the time to party, while in the US, High School is the time to party.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    2. Re:Better Universities? by lbrandy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why is he asking about Universities in Europe? What about Eastern Europe or the Ukraine or Russia? What about the results to the programming challenge that everyone made a big fuss about? What about China's Universities?!

      It's about quantity. If Chinese Universities were able to handle the demand of top Chinese students, they wouldn't flood to American universities by the thousands. There are top universities around the world, but if you write down all the "tier 1" universities in a particular discipline, more than half of them will be in America.

    3. Re:Better Universities? by gowen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      American Exceptionalism (or any other Exceptionalism through history, British Exceptionalism in particular) has never needed, or wanted, hard evidence. Like Manifest Destiny, it simply relies on an assertion of superiority, backed up by the evidence of being the most powerful country in the World, (like Britain was in the 19th Century, or France in the 18th).

      The only trouble with this is, it blinds us to what makes those empires really succesful -- natural resources, opportunism and good old blind luck, in the form of historical happenstance.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    4. Re:Better Universities? by morie · · Score: 4, Informative

      I used to work for a european university. We had quite an impressive standing in europe, but were nowhere near the top of the list woldwide, which is dominated by US universities. This was a non-US list based on the opinion of academic peers. The list of most funded universities is almost exclusively US and UK universities.

      So, as much as I hate chaufinism (either US or otherwise), this is not it but just a basic truth.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
    5. Re:Better Universities? by rolfwind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I usually like reading Paul Graham's essays but I agree with you on the "4. American Universities Are Better" part. Europe has a long and prestigious history with universities.

      Does he have extensive and long experience with foreign universities to ascertain this? Or is it simple chest-thumping of an American, just like the screaming about America having the "justice system in the world" during the OJ trial - I forget who started that, but it was repeated by some talking head on the news/talkshows almost everyday during that period. That is one scary thought! When I think of american (civil) justice, I know the winner, the man with deeper pockets.

      Personally, I would say the system really depends where you go to. Overall, I would just rate them lower because of the cost as compared to other universities I could go to in Europe without bankrupting myself for years to come.

    6. Re:Better Universities? by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The thing is, there are some really good schools in the US. Harvard, Yale, MIT. There are also some really bad schools. The elite ones are really good, I think the state run universities are the ones that give the entire country a bad reputation. On average, the schools aren't that good. But companies don't pay attention to those schools. They pay attention to the top schools.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    7. Re:Better Universities? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

      So, as much as I hate chaufinism...

      I can't stand it either. Learn to drive your own damn car!

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    8. Re:Better Universities? by Antifuse · · Score: 2, Funny

      Bahahahaha! Yes, American college students, they never party! They are all studiously sitting at their desks every Saturday night, because they got all that partying out of the way in high school. It's not like they're living away from home for the first time, and are able to party even MORE frequently/ferociously. /sarcasm

    9. Re:Better Universities? by value_added · · Score: 3, Funny

      So, as much as I hate chaufinism (either US or otherwise), this is not it but just a basic truth.

      I don't know whether it can characterised as "chaufinism," but in the US people do seem to prefer driving themselves around, even when going to school, and insist that the the right hand side of the road is, well, the right side of the road on which to be driving.

      Or did you mean "chauvinism?" ;-)

    10. Re:Better Universities? by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      US and Canadian Universities are better because most are run like corporations. They are able to attract top academic and research talent from around the globe with higher salaries, which of course draws tops students from around the globe (ie brain drain).

    11. Re:Better Universities? by jc42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There are top universities around the world, but if you write down all the "tier 1" universities in a particular discipline, more than half of them will be in America.

      Good point, which gets lost in most discussions like this.

      For some reason, most people will read a sentence like "America has many of the world's top universities" and think it said "No country but America has a top university."

      This is mostly a sign of the abject level of the teaching of basic logic at schools around the world. In America, too, because most Americans will misread things in the same way.

      What I've always found especially curious is the mismatch of the American higher-education system with the open and blatant anti-education attitude of much of the American public. It's not just George Bush; signs of education and intelligence are carefully hidden by most American politicians, because they understand that this would be a major flaw to a huge fraction of the voters.

      Meanwhile, people make jokes about how education is now America's major export industry. Funny how a country can make and export something that they don't like to use at home.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    12. Re:Better Universities? by moranar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Public universities here in Italy cost money too. I'm paying 1200 a year, for example, for a Software Eng. course.

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea!"
      Gandhi, about Internet Security
    13. Re:Better Universities? by Ubergrendle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      17th Century: Sweden/Ottoman Empire/Spain (in their respective spheres)
      18th Century: France
      19th Century: Britain
      20th Century: USA
      21st Century: China?

      I can't necessarily see China succeeding on the level of the previous empires, though, due to their foreign dependencies for resources, oil, and markets. Still, its got the size and if distribution of wealth improves they might create their own market...

      Besides, they had their empire from about 1500 BC to 500 AD. ;)

      --
      John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
    14. Re:Better Universities? by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 2, Informative

      I question the validity of lists like these, but Shanghai Jiao Tong University's annual Academic Ranking of World Universities--originally compiled in order to help improve China's own system of higher education--is very well-regarded and frequently cited among international liberal arts and sciences academics.

      Glancing casually through the list, it looks like the majority of the "best" are from the US, including Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, etc. Methodology and other goodies here.

    15. Re:Better Universities? by Richthofen80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is bollocks. If that's the case then the fall of an economy should be based just on the same amount of luck.

      If you want to read a story about how an economy is not a matter of resources or luck, but rather how little or much a government meddles in the economy, read about Zimbabwe.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2780775.stm

      Economies are based on the decisions of its citizens... a million little decisions controls the tide of the economy. When a hands-off, rational minded government or political climate takes place, economies do better. When a meddling, irrational government takes seed, then that's what you get.

      If natural resources take such a huge stance, why are most of the oil producing nations still 'poor'?

      Your reference to the empires of 100+ years ago doesn't apply because the wealth of that period was 'exported', a.k.a. stolen and redistributed. The American 'exceptionalism' you quote was by large not built on Empire wealth but by the wealth of industry of its citizens. And that itself is pretty exceptional.

      --
      Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
    16. Re:Better Universities? by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, some folks have to pay $1200 a MONTH in rent......

      $1200 per YEAR for college is peanuts.

      --
      Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
    17. Re:Better Universities? by Erwos · · Score: 2

      But, if you look at the list of the top 100 schools in the Americas, Canada's aren't even on there 10 times. Of the ones that are, only two are in the top 50 - they're weighted more towards the bottom of the top 100 (it's like saying you're in the bottom half of the richest people in the world, I know!).

      I'm not trying to bash Canada's schools - they definitely have great ones, and there's no reason a Canadian citizen would have to leave the country to get a fantastic education (the same goes for European citizens). But in terms of sheer educational strength, the US is way out ahead.

      I'm sorry if this sounds like silly triumphalism - I'm only trying to point out that the differences can be surprising.

      -Erwos

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    18. Re:Better Universities? by gowen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even more "fortuitously" (for want of a better word), just as the unrestrained laissez-fair US economy of 1900-1920 was beginning to eat itself into a Great Depression, along came a really big war to justify the government intervention deficit expenditure, which helped win the war and artificially stimulate the economy at precisely the time that it needed it.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    19. Re:Better Universities? by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 2, Informative

      >4. American Universities Are Better.

      They had a program on Channel 4 called "God's next Army". It was about a university that was built just to churn out Christian fundies into government/law/media so that they can change the US to thier beliefs.

      I would of taken it with a pinch of salt except that quite a few people from this school have made it into the US Government (some in key places) and the school had serious backing by major far-right Christians/groups. It's just an example it seems.

      What was interesting is that they take Creationism to the extreme. They don't teach science at all, so for example layers in the earth were created by Noahs floods.

      Based on what they have accomplished so far I'd say in 10-20 years (if your lucky) American Universities will be teaching along the levels of the middle ages.

    20. Re:Better Universities? by gowen · · Score: 4, Insightful
      When a hands-off, rational minded government or political climate takes place, economies do better.
      Well, they do better than Robert Mugabe, certainly. But the standard of living in Scandinavia, where social democracy and government intervention, are consistently higher than the USA. If you compare yourself to Mugabe, no wonder you do well. It's completely juvenile to compare the best of one system with the worst of another. Government intervention doesn't inevitably lead to the genocidal excesses of Robert Mugabe.

      Now, what about the laissez-faire free market that was instituted in Albania after the fall of communism? Answer: the whole economy collapsed under the weight of Ponzi schemes and Enron accounting. Go read "Eat The Rich" by P.J. O'Rourke (hardly anyone's idea of a socialist) and learn that your simplistic reasoning isn't actuall born out by studying a range of countries.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    21. Re:Better Universities? by gowen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but that money has to come from somewhere: specifically, it comes from students.

      What good does it do to have excellent professors, if 50% of your population can't afford to be educated at a decent college. How much does it cost for a three year undergraduate course at Stanford or Yale? Despite Grahams assertions of class mobility, the finest educations in America are largely (a small number of scholarships aside) the exclusive preserve of the upper middle classes and above.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    22. Re:Better Universities? by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If you filter out the remedial courses that US Uni's offer to get US students up to speed, they are better than most foreign Uni's. In Japan, College is the time to party, while in the US, High School is the time to party.

      It all depends where you measure. Paul Graham appears to be basing his experience on MIT. Unfortunately the US only has one MIT and only five or so universities in the same class for technology.

      The US Ivy League is unfortunately not world class in technology. The same is true of Oxford, the humanities are supreme, there is some world class science and math. Engineering is not an institutional priority. Yale and Harvard still have admissions policies that discriminate in favour of the children of alumni and against the most qualified applicants. You can't take second rate students and be first rate.

      In the past this peversely helped the US system. MIT might well have remained a respected but unexciting trade school if Havard had decided to take engineering seriously. If Harvard and MIT had merged as was proposed before WWI then MIT would never have been the powerhouse it was after WWII. Harvard's anti-semitic hiring policies would have excluded most of the stars of the current CSAIL faculty.

      Its not just the Rivests and Minskys that you loose with anti-semitic hiring, its all the non-jews who do not want to work in that type of environment. i think that this is probably one of the bigger effects on German academia, the NAZIs did not just exclude the jews, they excluded everyone who questioned their ideology. Once an institution has excluded the type of people who ask questions it can take centuries to recover. The Catholic church has not yet recovered from the counter-reformation, it probably never will.

      There is no ideal higher education strategy. The US has historically had a much higher percentage of the population go through tertiary education. That is on balance probably a better strategy for this century than the UK where in the past only 10% went to university and there was a very deliberate divide between the ordinary and the elite schools.

      On balance I don't think it is MITs and Stanfords that give the US the edge. You can always hire in elite engineers. And the people who succeed at places like MIT are people who would probably succeed almost anywhere. I think it is the large span of middle ranking institutions.

      The point is that you need relatively few engineers compared to the number of salespeople, marketers, finance, administrators etc. And while engineers do not typically value the inputs of non engineers much these have a massive effect on the performance of a business, if only because smart people find it pretty difficult to work with people whose intellectual development stopped at 18. university is not a perfect cure for this but it can help.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    23. Re:Better Universities? by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Insightful
      For some reason, most people will read a sentence like "America has many of the world's top universities" and think it said "No country but America has a top university."

      This is mostly a sign of the abject level of the teaching of basic logic at schools around the world. In America, too, because most Americans will misread things in the same way.


      Well, the resason for the confusion is because, if you read "Top University" as "Top 10" or something like that, the statements are basically synonymous. According to most rankings, America does have a near monopoly at the very top, though Oxford and Cambridge will always be there, and the best Asian universities are certainly improving very rapidly. According to this, America has 8 of the top 10 and 17 of the top 20. So I'd forgive someone of the "error" of believing all the top universities are American. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's not far off.

      What I've always found especially curious is the mismatch of the American higher-education system with the open and blatant anti-education attitude of much of the American public.

      That's a bit of an oversimplification. Pretty much the *entire* American public is pro-education. Some of them simply differ on *what should be taught*, which is a pretty significant distinction. And there are a handful of very conservative American universities - not many, but some - so even the most conservative Americans support education and send their kids off to college. And also, the Bible-thumping crowd is a very vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless. I believe the average American doesn't really care about the whole evolution thing to get very riled up.

      signs of education and intelligence are carefully hidden by most American politicians, because they understand that this would be a major flaw to a huge fraction of the voters.

      I'd say that's a little off too. It's more that the southern and rural voters I believe you're referring to - who may lack sophistication, but not intelligence - don't take well to condescending intellectuals *at all*. Like, say, John Kerry, who came off that way. Contrast that with Bill Clinton, who is brilliant but not condescending, and got on very well with voters of all classes.

      To disclose, I grew up in the south, went to undergrad at a bottom-tier university, grad school at a top-10 American school, and now live in a major city on the east coast. So I've seen a few different perspectives on the whole "Education in America" thing.

    24. Re:Better Universities? by I+Like+Pudding · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Reminds me of '99 in America. IT is currently a boom industry in India. This attracts all sorts of "frontrunners", if you will, who are in it purely for the payout. The workers with this mentality usually aren't worth their curry, whatever their country of origin may be.

    25. Re:Better Universities? by ultranova · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't necessarily see China succeeding on the level of the previous empires, though, due to their foreign dependencies for resources, oil, and markets.

      On the other hand, a hunger for resources has always been an essential ingredient for creating empires. Without it, it's easier and more comfortable to simply sit home and defend what you already have. That's one of the reasons why Europe launched expeditions while China didn't: European powers were searching for a sea route to better import spices from far east, while China lacked nothing.

      Don't forget, the European colonial empires were created for getting resources, not for their own sake. And if it did not depend (or think it's about to depend - the whole peak oil thing) from foreign oil, would USA bother messing with the rest of the world ? Heck, the Japanese were happy to stay on their island until the US gave them a rude awakening, and then built an empire to compensate for a lack of native resources.

      It isn't enough that you are capable of building an empire, you also need a motivation for doing so.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    26. Re:Better Universities? by contrar1an · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > ...because they understand that this would be a major flaw...

      I assert that they want to avoid appearing "privileged". Of course, privileged and smart don't automatically go together. But, they appear to for the average American.

      Everyone in America wants to be rich, but, one of the dominant American political parties has spent decades and tons of money enrolling people in the concept that rich people are evil. Politicians reasonably want to avoid appearing evil.

    27. Re:Better Universities? by mallardtheduck · · Score: 2, Informative

      But as a born-and-bred UK citizen, the maximum (until this year) was UKP 1150 per year tuition.
      However, if you are from a low-income household, you get PAID UKP 1000 per year to go to university. Can't beat that.

    28. Re:Better Universities? by QMO · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The bulk of the time seems to be spent as cheap labor for the university.
      I was a graduate math student. My school worked the graduate students harder than most (according to faculty and graduate students of other universities). I still feel like that work was extremely helpful in gaining a deeper and more practical understanding of what I learned by sitting in lectures and doing homework.

      I don't know if the difference was because of the shift of responsibility, or the difference between motivation by paycheck and motivation by grade, or some other entirely different factor, or some of all of them.
      --
      Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
    29. Re:Better Universities? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Just how many countries in the world are there where a politician could make a career and a run for President talking about "pointy-headed intellectuals", where "egghead" is a term of contempt

      Russia. During the russian revolution, in addition to shooting czarists and priests, they liked to shoot intellectuals-- the intelligent, educated folks who thought maybe shooting people and "collecting" their stuff wasn't the best way to build a worker's paradise. In fact, up until the late 40's when the race for the atomic bomb came about, "intellectualism" was considered a bad thing. To this day, the term "intellectual" has a strong element of derision in Russia. Or how about good ol' Mao? Very big anti-intellectual. He even opined that people didn't need to learn to read, as knowing too much would only confuse them. Militant islamists desiring to turn democracies into islamic caliphates are generally pretty anti-intellectual.

      Deriding education is standard dictator behavior.
      So yeah, nothing new there. Move along. Move along.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  2. It's the Coke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Duh! It's because American companies can negotiate better deals with the Coca-Cola Co. (or PepsiCo if they prefer it), which enables them to have those free drink machines. Free drinks draws in the geeks, which results in heavily caffeinated smart people. Wrangle a few MBAs together to lord over them and you have a successful startup.

    1. Re:It's the Coke by Velox_SwiftFox · · Score: 4, Funny

      The condensation of the startups is triggured by concentrations of what is called "Dark Money". Should synergistic fusion occur they may eventually explode in a brilliant IPO display.

  3. startups by 56ker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a European I find the article rather America-centric. Here for example in the UK about 10% of people are self-employed. Yes, technically those are pretty much all "startups". Here however most people don't have the desire to chase VC funding, float on the stock market or found an international company (as a number of US startups have).

    Of course part of the problem (both in the US and over here) is that a lot of businesses tend to have a blinkered restricted view of just selling/dealing with their domestic market (which of course in the US is larger) rather than doing business globally (which in a lot of businesses is the best way to grow).

    1. Re:startups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      As a European I find the article rather America-centric.

      More importantly, as an American, I find the article rather America-centric.

  4. Let me get this straight... by damburger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The guys evidence that there aren't any good Universities in Europe, is that American professors can't name any aside from Cambridge?

    Does this say more about higher education in Europe or the US?

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    1. Re:Let me get this straight... by Psiren · · Score: 3, Insightful
      there are a few exceptional schools in Europe (Oxford and Cambridge coming to mind the most quickly)

      Speaking as someone who works in one of the Oxbridge Colleges, I can tell you that what you see from the outside is nothing like what you see on the inside. If I were ever to have kids, I would strongly suggest they avoid either Oxford or Cambridge as a potential place of study.

      The place is rife with incompetentence, and absolutely dogged with bureaucracy, politics and backstabbing. I can't understand how the word hasn't got out. It seems to be an extrordinarily well kept secret.
    2. Re:Let me get this straight... by Guido+von+Guido · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The place is rife with incompetentence, and absolutely dogged with bureaucracy, politics and backstabbing.

      I think you've just described every institution of higher learning known to mankind.

    3. Re:Let me get this straight... by jc42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "If you haven't heard of a university, it's likely that it's because little research has come out of it of note." I laughed out loud here, honestly.

      Me too, though perhaps for a different reason.

      There are a lot of fields of study in which there is significant research going on that is unknown to most of the field, because most of the papers are published in a local journal, in the local language. This is especially true in Japan and China. The research only becomes "public" when it is published in a Western language, usually English these days.

      I've seen a number of list of the "best" universities published in the US. Very often, I subsequently come across the observation that the universities at the top are all teaching in English. When I mention this to people, the reaction can often be summarized as "There are universities that don't teach in English?"

      I think this is the main reason behind claims that the US has most of the top universities. You're reading something written by an American, and most Americans are blissfully unaware of anything that isn't reported in English.

      There are exceptions. I had a math prof whose specialty had a number of important people at one university in Romania, and they published all their preliminary papers in their local journal, in Romanian. So he learned Romanian, to read their papers. ("It's easy if you already read French, as any educated person must.")

      I also worked for several years as the computer guru for a bunch of biologists, several of which learned to read Japanese for the same reason. There are evolutionary biologists studying Mandarin because of the important work coming out of China. But you don't find many Americans outside academia who would do such a thing.

      (Of course, the calligraphy itself could be a reason to study those languages. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  5. Largely true but a flipside too by sien · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There are national characteristics - the fact that the World Cup is repeatedly won by a small group of nations that manage to maintain a style over years also shows this.

    But the US style has it's problems. US companies wind up as slaves to the markets and often damage their engineering skills. The problems in the US car industry show this. While the German car industry has come up with fuel injection, ABS braking and constant four wheel drive over the past 20 years the US industry has invented the cupholder and the SUV.

    Likewise, somehow the Japanese are great craftsmen. This skill is reflected in the quality of Toyota's manufacturing and the remarkable qualities in Japanese portable electronics. Apple may have invented the ipod, but the walkman and the transistor radio all came out Japan.

    It's good that the world is like this. Countries specialise. But presuming that one companies system is superior for everything to all the others is silly. The best is what is created when the systems work together - as in the computer industry where the parts are made in Asia and the software comes from all over the world, and in particular from the US.

    1. Re:Largely true but a flipside too by SparkyTWP · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The transistor radio was invented in America. Japan was just the first to make them affordable to the point that everyone could buy one. If I remember correctly, part of this is because the profit margin on transistors in other areas was much higher than what you could get from selling radios, so the manufacturers here didn't pay a lot of attention to it.

    2. Re:Largely true but a flipside too by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "While the German car industry has come up with fuel injection, ABS braking and constant four wheel drive over the past 20 years the US industry has invented the cupholder and the SUV."
      Not exactly... GM had fuel injection in the 1950s. All wheel drive was developed in Germany because Audi competed heavily in rally racing. A from of racing that isn't all that popular in the US. Not to mention that AWD isn't all the great of an addition to most cars. It eats more gas and is expensive to maintain. It is good for people that like to drive fast in really bad weather. As far as US contributions to the Automotive art? Pollution controls are a huge one. The US had pollution controls on auto decades before anyone else did. As such they paid for the majority of the development costs.
      "Likewise, somehow the Japanese are great craftsmen. This skill is reflected in the quality of Toyota's manufacturing and the remarkable qualities in Japanese portable electronics. Apple may have invented the ipod, but the walkman and the transistor radio all came out Japan."
      The transistor radio came out the US. The Transistor came out of the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor-Radio "The first commercial transistor radio, the Regency TR-1, was announced on October 18, 1954 by the Regency Division of Industrial Development Engineering Associates of Indianapolis, Indiana".
      Followed by, "Transistor radios did not achieve mass popularity until the early 1960s when prices of some models fell below $20, then below $10 as markets became flooded with radios from Hong Kong."
      One of the big jokes about "Transistor radios from Japan" was the Transistor wars. Japanese companies would advertise how many transistors they put in the radios, so they would put in extra transistors that really did nothing. I guess they thought more was better even if it really wasn't. Honda and Toyota both build cars in the US now. According to consumer reports many US cars are now more reliable than most cars from EU countries now. Toyota, Honda, BMW, and VW all build cars in the US now. You may say that Toyota and Honda have a culture of high quality in automotive production how ever to make the claim that it is cultural sort of ignores Suzuki which really doesn't have that high of a reliability rating or Nissan which while makes some very good cars also has some that have gotten poor reliability ratings. the US does seem to have a remarkable history of innovation. Some countries like the UK has a great history of destroying innovation. Read about Frank Whittle sometime. The real key to the the success the US has is that is seems to be willing to adapt to change and to take the best of other cultures and allow it to become part of the US culture.

      You are just repeating tired stereotypes that mean nothing and are frankly just not true.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  6. Fewer bureaucratic barriers by alexmin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One more reason could be that US has fewer bureaucratic barriers comparing to that in Ukraine or Russia for example.

    1. Re:Fewer bureaucratic barriers by cerberusss · · Score: 4, Informative
      US has fewer bureaucratic barriers

      Actually, here in the Netherlands, I have spoken to a few businessmen which deal or have dealt with the US. They all find dealing with the Americans an enormously bureaucratic process. Also note that lots of rules come from overseas from our point of view, Sarbanes-Oxley comes to mind.

      To start a company in the Netherlands, you do two things:

      • visit the local Chamber of Commerce and spend 10 minutes to tell your new business its name
      • Fill in one (1) form and send it to the (equivalent of the) IRS for a VAT-number
      That's it. How unbureaucrative can you get?
      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    2. Re:Fewer bureaucratic barriers by erktrek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dealing with any foreign country involves a higher order bureaucratic process than doing business domestically don't you think?

      It was trivially easy to set up my company in the U.S. as well - sending 2 letters: one to apply for a Tax ID number and one to go on file with my local state government. I guess the gist of the idea is what happens next - how much restrictions you have, what kind of taxes and fees you have to pay, what kind of funding is available that kind of thing.

    3. Re:Fewer bureaucratic barriers by Pendersempai · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's the same process here except that you don't need to visit the Chamber of Commerce. I founded a non-profit corporation once, and it involved filling out just one form. Later, when the time came to dissolve it, it again took only one form.

      It's true that Sarbanes-Oxley complicates things, but that's mostly for large businesses. It has all kinds of exemptions for small businesses and startups, and even most labor laws don't apply to companies below a certain size. If I had to guess, I'd say your friend from the Netherlands found his experience with American companies to be bureaucratic for two reasons:

      (1) He was dealing with large American companies, to which all of these laws and regulations do apply, and
      (2) he had to work an interface *between* two countries, which is always harder than working within either one exclusively.

      Especially with regard to this second point, America has a huge advantage simply because its domestic market is big enough to obviate the need for a startup to cross national boundaries with its business.

  7. Easier to find investors by maxme · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's much easier to find investors in USA than in Europe (i'm speaking as a french entrepreneur who tested the both side of Atlantic to run it's own business).

  8. Innovation comes from freedom of expression by bariswheel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    lots of bitter, negative opinions on this one. To add to the discussion instead of criticizing (which is fine - in small doses), I believe government (or lack thereof) is key for innovation. If you have an oppressive regime luring over you, there will be minimal startups; people will have little incentive to innovate, or fear to innovate. What he's trying to do in this article is to find commonalities within the 'American persona' to find out whether Silicon Valley is clonable. I believe That's the root of his thesis. He addresses personality traits such as Americans being free spirited risk takers, and it's a point well taken. "Startups are the kind of thing people don't plan, so you're more likely to get them in a society where it's ok to make career decisions on the fly." - P. Graham

    --
    Insinct is stronger than Upbringing - Irish Proverb
  9. Re:Oil and dollars by LnxAddct · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Illegal immigration is a whole other story, we still allow millions of legit immigrants every year.
    Regards,
    Steve

  10. I'm a consumer whore. And how! by Draracle · · Score: 5, Funny

    In America you can put a rock in a box, give it a name, and make millions. Why would you not want to start a company in a nation with that level of purchase discretion? "Now with more sodium -- Sweet Jesus!!!"

  11. American Chauvinism by gvc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You need a great university to seed a silicon valley, and so far there are few outside the US. I asked a handful of American computer science professors which universities in Europe were most admired, and they all basically said "Cambridge" followed by a long pause while they tried to think of others. There don't seem to be many universities elsewhere that compare with the best in America, at least in technology.


    And this survey demonstrates what, other than the parochialism of the American computer science professors with whom Graham happens to be acquainted?
    1. Re:American Chauvinism by alienmole · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The survey itself isn't the proof of the claim, it's merely a kind of illustration, which requires that you already recognize the underlying point. So, what are the European universities most admired in computer science, anyway? Graham has a point, although I'm not sure he's fully explored all the reasons: a big one is simply the size of the U.S. as a homogeneous market which mostly communicates in a single language.

  12. Laws are it. by hsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To start a corporation in America all you have to do is file out a simple form and mail in a cheap fee. I started mine for a whole $100 in costs to the gov't. While it is more than I want to pay, it isn't bad. I pay less in taxes than foreign counterparts, so I have more to actually invest into my company to grow it, another great reason why it is easier to start a small business in America. Employment laws as well. In France it takes 2 years to fire someone. If someone is destroying my small business, they can be out the door that day (well, depends on the state really). THere are tons of other reasons, but ease of doing business, ability to put your own capital into your business is def up there. Look how many businesses are started by those w/o college educations, it isn't the schools.

  13. I'd rather not put a startup in the US by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, it's easier to get slave workers (well, not really slaves, you have to shelter and feed slaves while with "normal" workers you can pay them less than shelter&food would cost you), it's easier to get investors, it's less bureaucratic hassle and so on. It's easier to get the biz rolling.

    But with the patent laws and the legal system around it, opening a biz in the US is risky. As soon as you're actually starting to make money, some corporation will cover you with suits 'til you hand it over for a nickle or a dime because some harebrained patent they got offers them a foot into that door.

    In other words, startups are the risk-free way of "innovation" for corps. If it doesn't fly, it doesn't cost them money. If it does, hand it over!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  14. Yes, but startups alone don't help the economy. by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Decades ago, companies stayed where they were started. They certainly stayed in the country where they started and they often kept their headquarters or a major plant where they started.

    Movie producers run out to California, mostly to escape legal process servers because a patent cartel wanted to price-gouge them for the unlicensed cameras they were using, stayed, and founded Hollywood.

    A guy named Chesney starts up a business in Pittfield, MA and GE ends up headquartered there, and employing tens of thousands of people prior to Neutron Jack Welch.

    Digital Equipment Corporation starts up in Maynard because the guys who founded it were connected with MIT, and there was cheap space in an old mill there... and grow in that location to a multi-billion-dollar company.

    But I can easily see an unstable state in which the United States continues to be a good place for startups, for the reasons mentioned, but all of the really economically important activity gets moved overseas just as the company begins to take hold. Over time, of course, that will undermine all the things that make the U. S. a great place for startups, but not immediately... just as U. S. researchers continue to win Nobel prizes for work performed under conditions that existed in the U. S. decades ago.

    Tangentially, New England is a great place for startups because of the existence hundreds of small, independent machine shops that can do prototype work. I believe those shops are a long-lived legacy of a century or two ago when New England and its mills were the most sophisticated industries in the U. S. I wonder whether anyone in the state government is paying attention to the care and feeding of those small businesses?

  15. Re:the Western nation that least protects its work by jbeaupre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With an attitude like that, I can understand why you'd favor more protection.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  16. American Universities Are Better by owslystnly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am not sure american universities are better, but they certainly are different. I have had the opportunity to take a few classes at KUL in Belgium (the "best" and largest university in the country). I would say students here LEARN the same things we do at universities in America, but they don't DO anything. In the US, courses consisted of a lot of work....exercises/homeworks, multiple tests/exams/quizzes in a quarter/semester, and labs + lab reports (often as frequent as one per week). In Belgium, you attended classes, perhaps there were optional exercises (in class, not at home, nor graded), and the only grade you get is the final exam, which is often about 15 minutes long and oral. Coming from US universities, you get a wealth of knowledge combined with hands-on experience that many places in Europe don't seem to be offering. Additionally, students here are not allowed to work during university (only allowed to work 2-3weeks per year), and their internships are usually severely limited (you think an intern job in the US is crap....here it can consist of just pushing a button). This has a huge effect on the job market and the prospects of what you will be doing in a job after you graduate. IMO, US students leave university much more prepared than their counterparts in Europe (well, maybe only Belgium?)

  17. I agree with the entire article, BUT by backslashdot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's odd, all the studies and anecdotal evidence presented to me suggest otherwise. I don't think the universities themselves are better, you're just more likely to make better contacts here than abroad. And the only reason for that is because Americans have money and a lot of them use it to invest (as Paul pointed out).

    Differing from your opinion, I agree with the entire article 100% (including the assertion that our universities are better), BUT .. I do not like the way the article was written. I wish he had used more statistics and numerics than just, for example "half the people in silicon valley have accents". How about showing us the stats of how productive they are etc. The numbers can't be that hard to find. Just because you have references at the end of an article doesnt really boost the usefulness much. Reason i am saying this is that without facts and numerics people who sort of disagree haven't really anything tanglible to be convinced by. And those who already agree, well they don't have reinforcing data they can use in convincing others.

    That said it's a good article in that it puts things to forefront that maybe people (especially those in other countries) will research or utilize.

  18. Faulty logic by deanj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The faulty logic in this article is a good reason just to pass it up

    From the article:

    "it is not (yet) a police state"

    Why is it there are people in this country are screaming and yelling about their imagined "police state", yet want to leave the other countries in the world to people who want to turn the whole world into a police state?

  19. Mr Graham needs to travel more... by costas · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think TFA has a very narrow view of the rest of the world. Yes, the US has succeeded brilliantly in creating and fostering a start-up culture (where everyone else has failed) but his reasons, are well, mis-informed and a bit narrow-minded. Let me put in my $.02 and €0,02 as well:
    • Immigration: The US has a great immigration policy, but it's not really that much different from a lot of advanced Western countries, esp. when it comes to skilled workers (researchers, college graduates, etc). E.g., the UK has a much larger talent pool it can draw from for immigrants (esp. Commonwealth citizens) yet there have been very few successful UK startups. Same could be said for Germany, the Nordic countries, and most of Southern Europe.
    • The US is a rich country: so is most of Western Europe, Australia, NZ, Southeast Asia, Japan, etc. Arguably the latter regions have even better infrastructure than the US.
    • The US is not a police state: again, neither is any EU member or the rest of Western Europe. Still, the only big European startup as of late has been Skype, and even that was US-funded.
    • American Universities are better: absolutely, but not for the reasons stated. American universities are just more free to make money from their R&D, unlike most say European ones. Since they can run research for profit they can also hire the best professors and researchers they can find and that creates a virtuous cycle. In Europe for example, most research schools are state institutions and thus professor salaries are set to a nationwide scale. Plus it's much harder to profit from R&D.
    • You can fire people in America: labor mobility is not a US invention. If you are faced with stifling labor laws, you can work around them. You can use contractors, bankruptcy law, subsidies, the list goes on. Plus, Anglo-Saxon countries with liberal labor laws (UK, Australia), still haven't fostered startups that well.
    The rest of the list is even more wooly than these bits. Here's my take as to why the US does startups better:
    • Failure is an option: there is less if any stigma associated with failure, making the option of going to work for a startup a much less negative one.
    • The market does not favor incumbents: unless you are trying to create a new market, it's much harder to compete with incumbent competitors outside the US, as they are usually politically protected (for fear of loss of jobs, political gains, what-have-you). If you think AT&T has a strong lobby in DC, consider what would happen if say the Ministry of Communications was the one running AT&T. That still is (directly or indirectly, through equity stakes) the case in most of Europe.
    • There's no history of startups: nothing attracts people like success and when you don't have your local Netscape or Yahoo or Google to draw inspiration from and try to immitate their success, you are that much less likely to try to start up a company.
  20. Don't forget by TheRecklessWanderer · · Score: 2

    Don't forget about unions. They are all about letting the cream rise to the top... Wait a second, no they aren't. Oh well.

    --
    Mean what you say...say what you mean.
  21. Career Change... by Avogadros+Letter · · Score: 2, Funny
    ... and it has dynamic typing for careers...

    Excellent! I've been looking for a new career! I dynamically type 65-180 WPM.
    --
    $ touch .signature
  22. One important factor... by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    And one factor that should not be underestimated is that the U.S. Government has been willing -- and able -- to bankroll a lot of scientific projects for the past 50+ years. Think about it:

    1. The Manhattan Project: start of nuclear energy. Immediate military applications, of course.
    2. The ENIAC, first electronic computer: first model bought by the U.S. Census Bureau, second model bought by the N.S.A.
    3. The Apollo program: biggest space-race project of all times, with benefits too numerous to list here, from electronics to materials to aerospace engineering (including military applications, of course).
    4. The Internet: bankrolled by DARPA, then by the NSF, both US Governement agencies.
    5. Nano-technology, the Genome Project, etc... etc...


    Don't forget that, for many years, the USA have been at the forefront of technology and science because the US Governement -- meaning you, Happy American Tax-Payers! -- has been very happy to sign big, fat juicy checks to US corporations, US Universities, US Think Tanks, etc. Also, the US Governement was able to do this because, right after the end of WWII, the USA were one of the very rare country in the world with industries left intact and a lot of natural resources.

    Now that the US Governement is pretty much anti-science, and that the US debt is soaring to ever more dangerous summits, I am not so sure the USA can maintain their advance on the rest of the world. But we'll see.
    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  23. Re:Weak stereotyping by Skater · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Also many of those Japanese cars with such great quality are built...in the US. Toyota and Honda both have several plants in the US.

  24. American dream is a (partial) scam by MarkWatson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Two childhood friends both struck it big (20+M and 300+M) starting software companies, so the American dream does happen.

    However, the statistics are against you if your goal is to become very rich - but it is the possibilty that motivates people.

    Here in the USA, we have an interesting cultural/political phenomenon: many lower middle class people strongly support the republican party whose policies are very biased towrads helping the very rich. I think that part of this phenomenon occurs because people dream of having a great idea and striking it rich.

    I think that having one's own business is a good idea (http://mark-watson.blogspot.com/2006/04/owning-yo ur-own-business.html) but only if you do it for the right reasons.

    1. Re:American dream is a (partial) scam by JimBobJoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here in the USA, we have an interesting cultural/political phenomenon: many lower middle class people strongly support the republican party whose policies are very biased towrads helping the very rich.

      I wouldn't necessarily call that an American phenomenon. For instance, an interesting study showed that Latin Americans who immigrate to the US are horrifed by estate taxes...even when the estate taxes don't kick in until the estate is worth $1mil.

      The estate tax is purely a tax on the wealthy, so its elimination would benefit the wealthy the most (though keeping it is not necessariliy helpful to the non-wealthy.) In either case, these immigrants see some type of potential for them to be worth that much, and plus some other type of cultural aversion to taxation at death, make them highly supportive of the estate taxe's elimination.

  25. Bay Area-centric by amightywind · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a European I find the article rather America-centric.

    As an American I find this article to be Bay Area-centric. Silicon Valley ceased being an engine of significant economic growth after the dotcom bust. It is unlikely to return to its former glory. It is kind of humourous that pundits like Paul Graham are still taking victory laps for an era of growth in Silicon Valley he had little to do with. In the US the economies of the southwest and southeast are much more vital.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:Bay Area-centric by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Silicon Valley ceased being an engine of significant economic growth after the dotcom bust. It is unlikely to return to its former glory.

      I'm writing this from within walking distance of downtown Palo Alto, and I tend to agree. It's really discouraging. Five years after the dot-com crash, there are still empty industrial parks for lease. The big reseach centers are gone. Xerox PARC is gone. Interval Research is gone. IBM Almaden Research is emptying out. DEC SRL and DEC WRL are gone. HP's real business today is printer ink. Intel is still around, but the new fabs aren't here, and they seem to be out of ideas anyway.

      Most growth seems to be in companies that deliver advertising - Google, A9, and their ilk. Startups tend to be "me-too" operations scrabbling for market share in crowded markets.

      Yet there's so much to be done. How about producing a personal computer that just doesn't break? Something with hardware and software immune to attack. Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back. Or electric cars with serious range. Or safe nuclear power plants. But that's not what people are working on.

    2. Re:Bay Area-centric by superdude72 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Silicon Valley ceased being an engine of significant economic growth after the dotcom bust.

      Ahem?

      VC Funding by region, Q1 2006

      Silicon Valley startups still receive more VC funding than the next four largest regions combined. Why is this? Stanford and UC Berkeley nearby? The pretty scenery? The affordable housing? In part. But mostly, it's because tens of billions of dollars in VC money resides within a few blocks on Sand Hill Road. And for the most part, VCs don't have any reason to leave the area in search of investments. The Web browser was invented in Illinois, but when it came time to found Netscape, the founders moved West because this is where the VC money lives. That hasn't changed.

  26. It is a rich country - not for long by argoff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hate to say this, but the US is in deep troubble at least for the next 2-8 years. With fiat money, way over extended housing debt, heavy bond debt, an account deficit of 7%, and now the carry trade unwinding behind 100's of trillions (with a T) in derivatives contracts - it won't be long before all freakin satanic hell breaks loose in US financial markets.

    The bad news, is that I don't think there is anything that can stop an economic collapse, the good news is that I think after the collapse the US has the highest potential of any country in the world for a spectacular recovery assuming that people don't panic and impose all sorts of controls that take away economic freedoms.

    (PS, those people who have written off gold and silver as barbaric immature monitary systems are going to be in for a very rude awakening, he he)

  27. police state?huh? by minus_273 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    " it is a rich country, it is not (yet) a police state,"

    I am going to hazard a guess that the person who stuck "ye"t in there has lived his or her entire life in a free western country and has little or no understanding of what a police state really is. All this person knows is 1. bush bad , 2. bad is police state, therefore bush = police state. This reminds me of every college kid who knows 1. bad 2. bad is nazi, therefore if you disagree with me you are a nazi.

    Idiotic use of extreme terms like this just erodes any meaning they may have. Its is about as effective in conveying meaning as the F-word if you use it as almost every other word.

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
    1. Re:police state?huh? by jerald_hams · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I spent my childhood in the Soviet Union. My family were refuseniks (denied permission to leave the USSR in 1979, pariahs of the state until we finally got out in 1989). Several members of my family in my grandparents' generation were "vanished" (one for teaching Hebrew, another for "subverting the communist economic system" by selling black-market pants). Though I didn't personally experience the worst of the USSR (Stalin's reign), I am familiar enough with the crimes of the USSR to discern when another country is repeating them. I think the United States (of which I am now a citizen and dearly love) has been steadily inching towards a Stalinist nightmare for many years. Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the news. Our country now engages in limited amounts of secret arrests, torture and spying on its citizenry. The last item may not even be limited. We build "detention centers" around the world and fill them with kidnapped foreign nationals. The scariest thing to me is that these crimes are never made public until revealed by the media. The media has very scant access to government secrets, so we can't know what deeper more malicious crimes are being committed at the moment. Once you've read about MK-ULTRA it's hard to imagine something our government won't do when not overseen by the public. So the grandparent poster is correct. We are not yet a police state, but we're well on our way.

  28. weak by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Startups happen in clusters. There are a lot of them in Silicon Valley and Boston, and few in Chicago or Miami. A country that wants startups will probably also have to reproduce whatever makes these clusters form.

    While I agree with the overall tenor of his presentation, starting with a number of begged questions weakens his argument.

    1) Startups happen ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. He maybe right about 'clustering' when you're talking about certain industries, but in a country where The above paragraph makes a LOT more sense (and is factually more supportable) if instead of "Startups", you read "The cool trendy startups that we like to talk about". In fact, Raleigh-Durham and Austin are (like SFO) in the top quartile of VC investment but he doesn't seem to think they are "cool" enough to discuss.

    2) "The US allows immigration, it is a rich country, it is not (yet) a police state..."
    Please. I'm sure the horse is dead, so you can stop beating it with your non sequitur stick. Anyone who connects the "US" and "police state" in a sentence merely illustrates how little they know about an actual police state. I understand it's very important to continue the shtick so PERHAPS your side has a chance to win an election sometime in the next half-dozen years, but you'd be much more persuasive if you left your political baggage at home with your pom-poms.

    3) (Paraphrasing) "German Universities suck because there are no Jews there." That's just plain stupid. Aside from the overt racism of the statement, then why aren't we all heading pell-mell for the universities in Israel? Perhaps there's only a certain 'dose' of Jewishness that we need, and too much is somehow poisonous (hands waving dramatically)?

    4) "You can fire people in America" - I think he's absolutely right, but isn't using our academic system a particularly BAD example? If he's willing to venture into the speculative fiction of the US becoming a police state, his omission here is the deletorious effect of Affirmative Action, and a litigious society where where a woman or minority is fired, their first thought is "hm, I wonder if it was my race/sex/preference/etc." and not "What did I do wrong?".

    5) "In the US it's ok to be overtly ambitious, and in most of Europe it's not. But this can't be an intrinsically European quality; previous generations of Europeans were as ambitious as Americans. What happened?" They left Europe and came to America?

    5) "Silicon Valley is too far from San Francisco....The best thing would be if the silicon valley were not merely closer to the interesting city, but interesting itself.... (The suburbs are) the worst sort of strip development...The kind of people you want to attract to your silicon valley like to get around by train, bicycle, and on foot." No projection there, no sir. Funny, I'd think that the people you'd want to attract people that are interesting, intuitive, hard working, conscientious people...not just smarmy, self-important, elitist black-clad coastal urbanites. I didn't realize Greenpeace membership is required for this job sir, would donating to the Nature Conservancy be enough?
    Pssst, Paul: there are a lot of interesting startups in what you'd call boring, flyover country. Telecommuting means that you can have outstanding information-based companies in Granite Falls, MN, Paragould, AR, or even Nampa, ID. In fact, a lot of people may even PREFER rural or small-town life, but they probably drive pickups or something (shudder).

    6) Immigration - this is just utopian and thus nearly valueless. The US already has the most open immigration system (even in these days of leather-clad jackbooted thugs summarily executing everyone trying to enter the country). He spent the previous ten paragraphs talking about how the US system is unique, particularly because of its poor educational system compared to other countries, and then when discussing the US's requirement of a college degree for entry he uses examples of....Americans. Circularity anyone?

    --
    -Styopa
  29. Top Universities: Big Deal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What do you get when you take the very few best students out of a nation of 300 million people and put them in a university where you've bought the very few best professors by offering more money (because of huge tuitions) than anywhere else? A very small number of very good universities. Also, when you say a state university can be top in its field, remember you're talking about the professors, NOT the students. (From my experience, these professors are often foreign and have come to the US because of better pay.) Also remember to include technical schools when you talk about the community college system in Europe. From what I've seen in the US, there's almost always a place for you in some (possibly not-so-good) university no matter how poorly you've done (or unmotivated you've been) in high school, especially if you're willing to pay enough for it. In Europe, a lot of these people, I think, would be off to a technical school instead.

  30. Paul Graham = Young Chomsky? by JohnsonJohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Aside from Graham's tendency to extrapolate wildly from a sample size of one: "I felt oppressed as a geek/nerd in high school therefore America oppresses geeks/nerds in high school", "I was successful in a computer tech startup using LISP therefore successful computer tech startups should use LISP", "I now have enough money to indulge my eccentricities and a stage on which to let the stream of my ego's consciousness spew forth without worry about the consequences, therefore I must be a public intellectual". Like Chomsky, I'm sure Mr. Graham is certifiably brilliant within his chosen field of study. Like Dr. Chomsky, Graham tends to mistake brilliance within one field with the capability to achieve deep understanding and useful insight on a variety of unrelated topics.

    As a simple counterexample to the current topic I'd offer India's IT sector. Although India has a few world class schools they are nowhere near as numerous as in the US, India does not have a large immigrant population, India's red tape while improving is still closer in style to "in Soviet Russia" than the Rand's libertarian paradise etc. However start up businesses in India are booming, mostly as spin offs of subsidiaries of American tech companies. Likewise Taiwan's semiconductor and electronics manufacturing industry has largely shed its foreign owned component and can be considered a startup success story. Not all start ups form in little red barns, or unkempt Cambridge, MA apartments; Intel formed from disgruntled Fairchild employees, as did Zilog and in a generation or two similar stories are likely to be common in the Indian tech sector.

    However the above is not a rigorous counterargument, and is not meant to be. My larger point is merely that if one narrows one view enough the world can seem remarkably simple. And then one starts to believe any story that can explain that simple world. Fortunately most of us have enough of a sense of shame to keep those stories to ourselves. Perhaps Mr. Graham, and Dr. Chomsky and many other public intellectuals should spend their efforts looking into what particular combination of genetics and environment lead to a pathological inability to refrain from espousing cranky theories in public.

  31. biz in Europe by fpedraza · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know about Asia or other regions, but these are my thoughts about the relative difficulty of starting business in Europe:

    #1 reason: Government is an obstacle rather than help or even better: JUST DON'T MESSING TOO MUCH. Bussinesses in Europe has to comply with municipal, state, country and european community regulation. Municipal laws are often vary a lot whithin even the same province. The local government has to give permission and get taxes (not cheap) just to open the company's door. Also the nation's government. And guess what? They are not exactly very fast nor cheap. The high costs of starting a bussiness make it very difficult for people who is not already rich or other bussiness who have already a lot of money! Paradox of social-democracy? Government as reverse Robin-Hood?

    Other:

    - the "progressive" taxes system doesnt award personal effort and risk. The taxes for businesses are as high as 30% or 35% of profits, even higher for wealthy individuals (Social Security not included). Where does this force capital to go? Easy question: any other place.

    - Public workers are impossible to fire. Once they pass their exams they can even just not go to work and they will keep their salary and benefits forever. Not the best to stimulate efficiency and speed. They also have higher salaries than private companies employees. Young people here dream about working for the government.

    - Trade unions degenerated to political parties. Their leaders and representants are too busy doing nothing and helping #1 in their labor to increase regulation.

    - We spend about 40% of the E.U budget subsidizing the low-margin, low-innovation, low-tech agricultural sector. This money should be better in their legitimate propietaries' pockets thus lowering the high tax pressure on business and individuals. As a side effect we screw up emerging economies with our protectionism (OK, maybe also the USA)

    - We have literally dozens of different languages. I dont think this is necessarily wrong, it's just a consecuence of our history. But the really stupid thing is the politicians are very busy trying to revitalize dead or semi-dead languages and dialects like galician, basque and catalan to have another more justification to fight with other regions, get local privileges, and keeping their positions. Of course these languages are studied in schools, diminishing the time young people should rather use studying maths, literature, economics, english or whatever. Mix this with governmet regulation and you get a lot more overhead for business.

    - We dont fight strong enough against terrorism, instead we let the terrorists (convicted killers included) form political parties and negotiate with our governmets as equals. Shame on us. Insecurity scares the capital who tends to go away.

    It's not that is easy to start a bussiness in the United States because they are rich: they are rich because is easy to start a bussiness.

    1. Re:biz in Europe by vidarh · · Score: 2, Informative
      #1 reason: Government is an obstacle rather than help or even better: JUST DON'T MESSING TOO MUCH. Bussinesses in Europe has to comply with municipal, state, country and european community regulation. Municipal laws are often vary a lot whithin even the same province. The local government has to give permission and get taxes (not cheap) just to open the company's door. Also the nation's government. And guess what? They are not exactly very fast nor cheap. The high costs of starting a bussiness make it very difficult for people who is not already rich or other bussiness who have already a lot of money! Paradox of social-democracy? Government as reverse Robin-Hood?

      I don't know what weird alternate dimension you live in, but setting up a company in Europe can be done over the web in a few hours, for a couple of hundred dollars. There are various restrictions on the types of companies you can set up at a reasonable cost.

      - the "progressive" taxes system doesnt award personal effort and risk. The taxes for businesses are as high as 30% or 35% of profits, even higher for wealthy individuals (Social Security not included). Where does this force capital to go? Easy question: any other place.

      Tax planning in Europe is trivially easy once you get to the kind of company size where it makes a difference.

      - Public workers are impossible to fire. Once they pass their exams they can even just not go to work and they will keep their salary and benefits forever. Not the best to stimulate efficiency and speed. They also have higher salaries than private companies employees. Young people here dream about working for the government.

      In some European countries that might be true, but in many European countries public workers are underpaid and the positions are considered low status - hardly the kind of thing that attracts youth that would otherwise have been likely to form successfull startups.

      - Trade unions degenerated to political parties. Their leaders and representants are too busy doing nothing and helping #1 in their labor to increase regulation.

      They are busy increasing regulation to safeguard employees, yes, because that is what most European employees want. I was shocked at the low degree of protection here in the UK when I first moved here, and it's still far better than in the US.

      - We spend about 40% of the E.U budget subsidizing the low-margin, low-innovation, low-tech agricultural sector. This money should be better in their legitimate propietaries' pockets thus lowering the high tax pressure on business and individuals. As a side effect we screw up emerging economies with our protectionism (OK, maybe also the USA)

      I do agree the agriculture subsidies are a bad thing. However the US is nearly as bad in that respect...

      - We have literally dozens of different languages. I dont think this is necessarily wrong, it's just a consecuence of our history. But the really stupid thing is the politicians are very busy trying to revitalize dead or semi-dead languages and dialects like galician, basque and catalan to have another more justification to fight with other regions, get local privileges, and keeping their positions. Of course these languages are studied in schools, diminishing the time young people should rather use studying maths, literature, economics, english or whatever. Mix this with governmet regulation and you get a lot more overhead for business.

      This is a problem, but also an opportunity. Any emerging European business knows from early on how to deal with internationalisation, multiple languages and multiple cultures. Most American companies don't.

      - We dont fight strong enough against terrorism, instead we let the terrorists (convicted killers included) form political parties and negotiate with our governmets as equals. Shame on us. Insecurity scares the capital who tends to go away.

      This is the weakest of your arguments. Despite the IRA and ETA bombing campaigns, I've never ever heard either being even considered as an issue, mainly because they never were a big deal compared to other risks.

  32. Whats all the fuss about US startups anyway? by damburger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There seems to be some kind of cultural bias (at least, amongst people like the author) that only sandal-wearing californians are capable of creating innovative IT. Linux was created by a Finnish student. The WWW was created by an Englishman working at a public institute in Switzerland. Yes, i'm typing this on an Apple. But there is no technological reason I'm not typing this on an Acorn instead.

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  33. Re:Distortion by size by jbeaupre · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the reasons I believe Americans become insular is the large size AND homogenaity. Hop in a car, pick a random direction, drive for a day. There's a pretty good chance you're still in the US, with Canada similar enough to fool you. Hop out and you'll likely be able to speak to a local, in English, with accent variation significantly less than within the UK. If you really wanted to, you can probably find a job in a week or less (you might be at McDonalds, but you can get a job), get an apartment, watch the same tv shows, and so on.

    My point is that most Americans, even ones who travel, have no concept of any other way of life. That's not a criticism, just an observation. If everyone in Europe spoke the same language, ate the same food, etc, etc, we'd be saying the same about them. We don't have a concept of neighboring countries, except Canada and Mexico, because we never bump into any.

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  34. greater fractioning by spectrokid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    AES, the encryption algorithm, was invented at a Belgian university. A country like this, with less inhabitants than NYC cannot afford to have universities leading the world in all kinds of disciplines. This is a big problem for European universities: every country wants a silicon valley, AND a biotech center, AND nanotech,... But really they can't afford it, and therefore the money gets spread out too thin. If you work with small groups and good funding you can beat the world in a niche discipline, just like the AES guys did.

    --

    10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then

  35. Immigration ? by Builder · · Score: 5, Informative

    Mr Graham states that one driver of startups is the fact that America allows immigration. That's at odds with my own story.

    When I was growing up, all I ever wanted to do was move to the USA. When I finished school, my parents could not afford to send me to university, so I had to start work straight out of school. I spent 5 years working my way from cable laying guy to networks guy to Unix guy, and then tried to move to the USA. After 2 years of trying, I gave up and moved to the UK.

    Next year, I will _finally_ be eligible to apply for an H1B visa, but I won't be. Because I don't have a degree, I need 12 years work experience. The first 8 years of that experience are no longer technically relevant to anything I do today. Sure, it taught me a lot about dealing with people and integrating into the 'real world', but I don't see how that is relevant since I would have been eligible for entry fresh out of university with none of that experience.

    Even if I did want to apply, I would have no guarantee of permanent settlement. I would have to 'emmigrate' to the USA knowing that if the company I was working for went under, or declared a loss for a number of years running, or laid off too many other people, I would have to pack my life back into boxes and go home. 30 is too damn old to be taking that kind of chance.

    I took that chance coming to the UK at 25, and even then I was almost guaranteed permanent settlement when I moved here. It was certainly never tied to the company that I moved here to work for. At 25, I could take those risks, but not anymore.

    So instead of adding to the US economy, I've got a successful life adding to the UK economy. Overall, the US immigration policy is NOWHERE near as friendly as many places in Europe.

  36. France by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The start-ups would all be happening in France except that they don't have a word for "entrepreneur".

    No, really! Type that into Babelfish and ask for an English-to-French translation, and it spits the same word back at you. OK, maybe it's in French dictionaries, but it's obviously one of those words that they're always borrowing from other languages (e.g. the days of the week sound suspiciously like the Italian names).

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  37. Human nature, not teaching by alienmole · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For some reason, most people will read a sentence like "America has many of the world's top universities" and think it said "No country but America has a top university."

    This is mostly a sign of the abject level of the teaching of basic logic at schools around the world. In America, too, because most Americans will misread things in the same way.

    You can't really teach this out of people. It's a cognitive heuristic which saves on brainpower, which is deeply embedded in the human psyche. The only way to escape it is with large doses of intelligence: larger than most people possess. The core issue is about compression as a way to aid comprehension: to make a sentence like "America has many of the world's top universities" tractable - easier to reason about and remember - it has to be translated into something simpler. The most obvious example is "America == top universities". There's an obvious loss of information here, but arguably, the main point has been retained. A lot of human silliness is explained by this trick.

  38. From an European... by orzetto · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am an European, born and grown up in Italy and living in Norway.

    The US Allows Immigration

    In my experience I have not seen any country being so fiendish at visitors as the US. The mega-fence on the border with Mexico is one example. The continuous controls for what-the-hell-they-are-looking for at airports is another. Then again I have not been to Uzbekistan or Iran.

    The US Is a Rich Country

    Comes down on how you define "rich". I was definitely not impressed (in fact, a bit disappointed) by American infrastructure. In 2004 I could not even call Europe from a public phone in Chicago airport (maybe I hit a streak of broken phones). The same year, a conference I attended in Austin, TX had 5,000 participants and not a single Internet connection available. Then again, Italy is worse, but America is not really so impressive.

    The US Is Not (Yet) a Police State

    See above for the requests of fingerprints, the queues when entering the country and the like. They gathered so much data about me they probably know me better than my mother.

    You Can Fire People in America

    That's why I am staying here, thanks. I prefer to be able to plan my life beyond this week. Of course you can fire people in Europe, only you cannot fire at a whim. If you don't have a good reasons you can get sued, which happens way more often in the US than in Italy (about 10 cases a year for 58 million people; not sure about the US but I suspect it's way higher).

    America Is Not Too Fussy

    Who said it is illegal to work in your garage? What laws should prevent it? Why would that swiss lady report to the police the start-up in the garage? Have you Americans this sort of laws? For I am totally unaware of such laws in Italy, Norway or elsewhere. Of course, if the start-up is a mechanic workshop that keeps the neighbourhood up all night, people have a right to protest, but it does not seem to be the case discussed in TFA.

    However, for better or worse it looks as if Europe will in a few decades speak a single language

    This is the most ludicrous claim ever. Italy has been under foreign domination for 1,500 years (Ostrogoths, Byzantines, Franks, French, Northmen, Arabs, Spaniards, French, Germans, and a bunch of others I cannot remember), and we got at most a few words. Thinking that a country can shift language as often as a geek changes his underwear is patently insane. And changing for what, English? Wake up, you will all soon have to learn Chinese!

    A friend of mine started a company in Germany in the early 90s, and was shocked to discover, among many other regulations, that you needed $20,000 in capital to incorporate.

    I do not know American or German law in much detail, but in Italy (and presumably in Germany as well) there are different levels of incorporation. To start a SpA ("shareholder society") you need about 100,000 euros in capital; if you cannot make it, you have to limit yourself to a Srl (limited-responsibility company). The difference is in practice small; the friend probably looked at the GmbH level in Germany and thought it was the minimum threshold; instead, that threshold is meant for investors to be sure they are investing in a company that actually has capital, and not an Enron of some sort. Then again, I am not much in the details.

    --
    Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
    1. Re:From an European... by timothy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Two small comments on your comment :)

      1) Re: the "megafence" on the southern border of the U.S.: remember, no such fence exists right now. There are fenced portions of the border, but most of it is basically freely passable (though the landscape itself is forbidding across West Texas and Arizona at least). Note, too, that even if there was a "perfect" (impregnable) fortress-fence stretching the whole way, and likewise keeping out those pesky Canadians, it would not contradict the claim that the U.S. allows immigration (and in healthy numbers!). Allowing immigration does not imply a freely permeable border. Mexico (perhaps in reaction to U.S. rules) has fairly stringent rules about Americans (and others) in Mexico, too; for more than border-area excursions (I think 60 miles / 48 hours), Americans are supposed to get paperwork done in advance to clear it. I have seen little complaint about this exercise of Mexican sovereignity. OTOH, at least in El Paso / Juarez, there is abundant foot- and car-traffic across the various official border crossing points, and the hassle is minimal in my limited experience (either direction, for people of American or Mexican citizenship). But you can't carry a gun from dangerous Texas into ultra-safe Juarez.

      2) A 5,000-person conference in Austin with no Internet connection, in 2004?! That's hard to believe :) Seems hard to go more than 10 feet in Austin without being in at least *someone's* open wi-fi zone, including the delicatessen chain (Jason's? Katz's?) that has free wifi at all locations.

      Cheers,

      timothy

      --
      jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
  39. Your understanding is outdated by Nazmun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    THe marriage thing will no longer work at all. Neither will the getting sponsored part if you've already moved in here illegally. During the later half the clinton administration, a new bill was added that barred illegal immigrants from legalizing themselves should they have spent any time here illegaly. If ti was fairly short, under a month or so they would be barred for a year or so. The next level they'd be barred from staying here for ten years.

    Gaining illegal entry from foreign countries via airport is also quite difficult.

    --
    Hmmm... Pie...
  40. Perhaps not by cartman · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I agree with some of your points. Many of the advantages listed for the U.S. in the original article are also shared by Europe. For example, the EU is filled with rich states that aren't police states.

    However some of your points underestimate the differences between the two regions:

    You can fire people in America: labor mobility is not a US invention. If you are faced with stifling labor laws, you can work around them. You can use contractors, bankruptcy law, subsidies, the list goes on. Plus, Anglo-Saxon countries with liberal labor laws (UK, Australia), still haven't fostered startups that well.

    Labor mobility may not be an American invention but America is the place where it is currently practiced. Of course there are ways of "getting around" anti-mobility laws, as there are ways of geting around any laws, but law avoidance (like tax avoidance) is costly, difficult, and incomplete. Just saying that you can "work around" laws greatly understates the difficulty in so doing. In many countries of the EU, firing someone or laying them off is practically impossible.

    The market does not favor incumbents: unless you are trying to create a new market, it's much harder to compete with incumbent competitors outside the US, as they are usually politically protected (for fear of loss of jobs, political gains, what-have-you). If you think AT&T has a strong lobby in DC, consider what would happen if say the Ministry of Communications was the one running AT&T. That still is (directly or indirectly, through equity stakes) the case in most of Europe.

    There are far fewer large tech incumbents in Europe than in the US. Obviously every country has a phone company but most European countries do not have an IBM, Microsoft, or Cisco.

    Failure is an option: there is less if any stigma associated with failure, making the option of going to work for a startup a much less negative one.

    In my experience foreigners are as tolerant of failure as Americans. In fact foreigners are probably more tolerant of failure because career success is less important in most countries than in the U.S.

    Furthermore, it has been my experience that many or most employees of silicon valley startups are Asian or European. Even some of the founders of companies in silicon valley are foreign. If foreign people were terrified of failure then they would not come to the US to fail, only to be sent slinking home. Bear in mind that many people working in silicon valley companies are employed using H1-B visas which means that if the company fails then their visa is revoked and they must return home immediately--implying to their fellows that they went to silicon valley, tried, failed, and were booted out of the place. If they were afraid of failure then they wouldn't take a risk like that.

    Since foreigners are as likely as Americans to work at silicon valley startups, cultural differences between employees can't be the reason behind silicon valley's success. The fact that the employees are from all over the world, but the companies are American, suggests that the difference is economic not cultural.

    I believe the primary reason there are more large startups in the US is because there is far more venture capital. It's natural that Europeans would be terrified of failing in Europe because the enterpreneurs there must bear the risk entirely by themselves. If you wish to raise money for a startup in Europe then you must risk all of your personal savings, and your house--and even then you really wouldn't have enough money to fund the startup. In America you use somebody else's money, and the risk to you is greatly decreased. Of course, if you accept venture capital then the potential rewards are also decreased, but if the startup succeeds then you'll be filthy rich anyway and you won't worry about the 33% cut of your massive fortune that must now be paid to ventu