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French PM Unreceptive To RMS
An anonymous reader writes "Six month after the publication of very bad amendments to French DRM law proposal, Richard Stallman has been pushed back by the chief of security team of French Prime minister.
On Friday 9th of June 2006 at 3.30pm, Richard Stallman, president of Free Software Foundation, led a delegation composed by Frédéric Couchet (Free Software Foundation France) and Christophe Espern (EUCD.INFO initiative) to meet the French Prime minister in order to talk about the French DRM law proposal and to deliver the EUCD.INFO petition signed by more than 165,000 French residents. Richard Stallman and his friends were pushed back by the chief of security team. "
Is this really a news story? Someone without an appointment tries to seek a personal audience with a world leader and is denied? That's not anti-DRM, it's just common sense.
The delegation led by Richard Stallman was kindly but firmly pushed back by the chief of security team of French Prime minister saying : the decision not to receive Richard Stallman was mature considered .
In the PCInpact article Frédéric Couchet, from FSF France, evokes the difference in treatment between the reception of Bill Gates as a Head of State by the president of the Republic and that of Richard Stallman by the chief of the security team of Matignon . Richard Stallman believes to have the explanation: Gates is the emperor, we are only citizens , he said. - duh. Earth to RMS: some French dude, who happens to be a PM of France doesn't HAVE to listen to you and choses not to listen to you, but if you offer money he may reconsider, are you surprised?
(note: I am not saying BG offered money, I am saying BG is seen as someone, who can bring monetary advantages to a country.)
You can't handle the truth.
with a head of state. This was simply a stunt to gain exposure. I am all for supporting the proliferation of free software and the free software movement, but this will only marginalize the cause yet once again at the hands of RMS.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
So Richard Stallman approached the French Prime Minister's delegation, and tried to force their way though to have a private word with him about DRM laws? ...
... That just isn't normal behaviour.
Even outside of politics that isn't acceptable behaviour. How would you feel if you ran a business and as you left the office the CEO of another company was trying to convince you to sell your shares to him, following you about and such?
Normal people make a meeting... Or if failing that they write the grievance down and hand deliver it. They don't make a run at the guy, and try and get it words and then act like a victim when it doesn't work.
Damn right the security pushed him back... He should have been asked to leave if he acts like that.
but he is the last person that should be representing the free software community to politicians. You need a clean cut person in a suit who is familiar with the politics of that nation. Why do think people hire lobbyists instead of appealing to politicians directly?
Disgruntled man stopped by security when he barged his way to French parliment and demanded to see a top MP! This is really a piece of non-news. Just because he's got a petition doesn't give him the right to see them. If he really wanted action to take place he'd organise a series of protests that can't just be turned away.
You missed a step:
Step 1.5: Try to schedule a meeting with the leader and get ignored
I'd be pissed off too if I represented 165,000 people and was twice blown off by some "leader" who was obviously too busy to do things like actually listen to his constituency!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I am an American, and I have to say to mr. Stallman:
Please wear a suit when trying to meet with foreign dignitaries.
And at least wear your hair back and trim your beard a little. You look like a hippy slob, and that was how you were received.
You do free software a disservice by appearing like don't you give a crap. You expect them to take you seriously looking like you don't take them seriously?
meh
Not only that, but if you are going to attempt to barge in for an unscheduled appointment, at least dress appropriately! I mean, you're going to meet the Prime Minister, don't you think a tie is in order? Or at least a step up from khakis and a polo shirt? These guys look more like college kids than the heads of political organizations. I wouldn't take them seriously either.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
How were they supposed to find some better method when the PM's office wouldn't even dignify their request with a response, pray tell? If the secretary had even made an attempt to arrange something that would be one thing, but being ignored completely is unacceptable.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
You may not agree with Stallman's tactics, but the message this sends is clear: The people passing today's draconian intellectual property laws they are NOT representing the general public -- they are representing coporate interests.
Bill Gates is a citizen of the US, just like Stallman. Gates and Stallman take opposing viewpoints on the particular issue, and both are well known and intelligent individuals with strong arguments. However, only Gates was allowed to talk to the PM.
Stallman tried to get an audience with the PM, but was refused. It was only after the refusal that he tried to just "barge in", and there is *nothing wrong with this*. This kind of thing has happened throughout history -- a corrupt goverment has favored a certain group of people, and the unfavored group resorts to any tactics necessary to get themesleves heard.
Those of you who are criticizing Stallman, saying thing like "duh, I could have told you this would fail"... You're totally missing the point. Stallman also knew it would fail. Why else would he have a cameraman on hand ready to document the event. He's making a point, and it seems like a lot of people are missing it.
In a very real sense, Stallman represents the little guy, and Gates represents the corporate interests. In a very real sense, the goverments are NOT listening to the people. When the governments are only hearing one side of the story on DRM/copyright, it should be obvious that the laws are going to be heavily biased. And *this* is what is bad. Nobody from the opposite end of the spectrum is being listened to, and we are LOSING OUR RIGHTS.
Stallman is out there putting his ass on the line to show people this, and hopefully reach a larger audience than the few geeks on Slashdot who already know how bad everything has gotten. Before you get too critical of his methods, ask yourself what *you* have done to help turn the tide. Because sitting on your ass complaining about the shutdown of The Pirate Bay isn't accomplishing a damn thing.
I don't doubt that the prime minister has no intention of meeting with RMS, but in fairness their request to see the PM was two weeks before they showed up. It is quite possible, and in fact likely, that the PM of France might actually be so busy as to not be able to schedule a meeting within 2 weeks. We're talking about DRM here, not a pending German invasion. It can wait. I doubt there are many world leaders you could get a meeting with in less than two weeks.
Finding other idiots on
Maybe France is different, but here in the US there's a huge discrepancy between the number of people who hold an opinion and the number of people willing to take the effort to express it (by signing a petition, voting, or whatever). I would say 165,000 signatures is a lot even here, let alone in France.
Not to mention the difficulty in advertizing the thing in the first place, and the logistics of getting the document and the signer in the same place.... it's likely that most of those 63 million people never even had the oppertunity to sign it, because they never heard about it.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The PM doesn't have to schedule it himself; that's what secretaries are for. If nothing else, two weeks should have been enough time for the secretary to at least reply with something like "we received your request, and it's waiting to be processed" (assuming they sent it by some reasonably speedy method).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
... not to receive RMS.. and not a question of planning, or appointment of whatever... Matignon was warned for a few weeks of his coming, and could have make him be received by any small office-counselor, as humiliating as it would have been, some "chargé de mission" or whatever. but instead decided to leave him 100m away from the place. That's exacly how was treated the free software position about DRM, internet-filtering dispositions, articles forcing DRM into any software, and so many other atrocities commited into the DADVSI law in the name of "protecting the authors". ... well the authors of Free Software were just unheard.
Fifteen whole days? Come on. I can't get a mail in rebate processed that fast, never mind an application to meet with the head of state of a major nation.
Let's be a bit realistic, shall we?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
For the love of Pete... This has to be the most damaging form of protest ever. Folks! Wake up! This is counter-productive! France is voting for a new president and a new parliament next year. Why don't you go and make your case to Segolene Royal and Nicolas Sarkozi? Why aren't you showing your petition to your MP? What are you trying to achieve by meeting a prime minister who has less than a year in office, and has 30% approval rate? You may think that there is nothing to life other than being anti-DRM and pro-OSS, but over 10% of the French population is unemployed, the suburbs were burning last fall and student protests were paralyzing the country a couple months ago. Have a bit of perspective here. The dude has to prioritize. He knows he ain't staying, and pissing you off is probably an acceptable trade-off to him building his legacy with the population at large. So please, please, please stop the whining and come back when you have a better game plan. Actions as such are your cause.
For they are not just "someone" but 3 individuals quite involved into this DRM saga, thus having points and a petition to be discussed.
Jeez, come on. Most of the geek community knows who RMS is, but in world leader terms, he is NOBODY. He has very little influence. Linus Torvalds has ten times the influence, and even he isn't that important in the big picture.
Bill Gates is received with all the honors by the President and RMS & Co can't even reach the prime minister or even some random official guy ?
Gee, I wonder why? Bill Gates makes the software that a large percentage of the world uses. He has the biggest charitable foundation in history. Even if you discount software, he is one of the most influential people in the world.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Maybe these days people just expect the government to be run like a company (when was the last time you got even so much as a stock form rejection email from a job application?) but all it takes is a secretary dropping a "sorry, after 'mature reflexion' we decided not to see you" letter in the fax machine and hitting send.
The French PM may have "maturely" decided not to have the meeting but his lack of response to any of the letters requesting it was quite immature.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
"Gee, I wonder why? Bill Gates makes the software that a large percentage of the world uses."
And GNU/the FSF does not? I wonder when Google switched to Windows XP.
So yeah, a guy representing 0.2% of the country demanded a meeting with their Prime Minister giving two week's notice that he would be arriving?
I can't even book time with a plumber to fix a leaky tap in the next two weeks, never mind a Prime Minister!
--- Band: Joey Ultra
Letters were sent a few days ago to tell the day and hour of his coming
The arrogance of that is simply astounding. "I shall arrive, you shall se me." Pardon? It doesn't help that he insists on showing up looking like Robbie Coltrane on holiday and certainly not combined with that downright papal attitude. Newsflash, Richard, the rest of the world DOES expect to be treated with respect and that includes making appointments--in reasonable time--and showing up properly attired. Oh yes, you're an eccentric genius...yeah, and he's the Prime Minister of France. Wear a fucking suit and comb your goddamned hair, you lazy slob.
And GNU/the FSF does not? I wonder when Google switched to Windows XP.
GNU's software is mostly a copy of Unix tools. Useful, yes, but not particularly influential. The GPL is the closest thing to influence that RMS commands, but even that in the Great Scheme of Things is not that important on the world stage.
On the other hand, Microsoft influences industries a hell of a lot more than GNU/FSF. I'll even throw in Apple as an influencer (though, they influence much, much less than the average Apple zealot thinks), even though Apple is peanuts on the world stage, too.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
a pending american invasion???
Seriously, the khakis and polo shirt may partially balance off the boxcar hobo facial hair for your normal everyday operations, but it doesn't show a proper degree of respect for the person you're trying to meet who happens to be an elected official. Remember the hooplah about the college girls' soccer team who met the President in nice sun dresses and flip-flops? Just a hint: you don't half look as good as those girls -- maybe less. Work harder at your appearance. They did you a favor by not letting you in the door. You'd have embarrassed yourself and us looking like that.
When you are a leader, delegate, or some other form of representative, you need to give the proper impression of the people you are representing. It may well be that F/OSS people are old hippies with too much facial hair and a beer gut, but you do them a grave disservice to paint them that way. By showing up with that list of 165,000 people, you have appointed yourself their representative, and you painted them with a bad brush from first glance. You need to be their best face. The impression of you is the impression of them.
You want respect (and that's what this is all about, right?), you need to:
I am not sure if you looked at the photos or not. But RMS didn't even Dress up for the occasion. Which I would considered very rude and unprofessional, even as a programmer. What do you expect the guard to do. Let a bumb from the streets into the building. I am sure their orders and training tell them even with all the credentials and ID if they feel suspisios of the person not to let them in. If you have a meeting with a high position person and you have it scheduled you really should dress up for it. No matter how full of yourself you think you are.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
If anything, those who insist that people in positions of respect (managers, political officials, etc.) listen to them even if they dress in a slovenly way are the ones guilty of assuming superiority -- they think they are (or their message is) important enough to disregard the manners and cultural expectations of their audience. That is, simply put, snobbery of the worst kind -- it masquerades as egalitarianism.
You know why people are taken more seriously in a suit? Because it's our culture's accepted formal attire for business. If your audience is important enough, you will respect their culture. If their culture says "formal meetings involve suits", then you should wear a suit. Simple.
We already implicitly acknowledge this when it comes to other formalities like the exchange of business cards, shaking of hands, etc. For example, in Japan, one offers and accepts business cards with both hands, out of respect for the Japanese culture. In France, as in the US, one wears a suit to meet with those in positions of respect or power (politicians, management, etc.).
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
I think the U.S. Civil War had a lot of those experiences, but you're probably correct when talking about facing an external enemy. (Is it a surprise that the citizens of the U.S. are their own worst enemies?)
Add in that the U.S. public doesn't seem to have much respect for their elders and/or history, it's probably accurate to say that (aside from the people who have seen down-and-dirty military action), the U.S. public has no concept of what war is really like (and probably has some very distorted notions about it from Hollywood).
BTW, I count myself among the uninformed U.S. public, although I've got a vivid enough imagination so that I'm damn sure I want to _stay_ ignorant of such an existence.
The PM of France might just have a few things on his plate that he considers more important.
This may be true, given that our PM is up shit creek with no paddle as he is implied in a major scandal involving weapon trading, false document and intra government back stabbing.
But OTOH all this DRM issue is being discussed in both parliaments at this moment, and to be fair, this was indeed the correct timing. Furthermore, at the moment the french government is making itself very unpopular by pushing laws without leaving much space for a proper democratic discussion.
May I use your sig please?
I mean, you're going to meet the Prime Minister, don't you think a tie is in order? Or at least a step up from khakis and a polo shirt?
Why? Because the guy deserves to be treated like someone special? He's better than these guys so they need to, "dress to impress?"
Hardly. The prime minister works for the people, not the other way around.
It is people like you who actually believe that toadying up to politicians, "showimg respect for the office," etc, etc is important, letting them forget who they work for and ultimately results in the kind of blow-off, you can't even get a response to your request for an appointment, behaviour that Stallman was faced with.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You do realize that the French system of government has changed several times since they gave us help during the Revolutionary War, right?
In fact, the France of that time period was ruled by a king, who gave us help during the Revolutionary war. Considering that the help didn't even come from a democracy representing the people of France of that time, exactly how much credit should we give their descendents today for that help?
I mean, let's take a slightly broader view of history, for just a moment.
During the Revolutionary War, England was ruled by a king, and its government oppressed Americans. Since then, its regime has changed. Now it's ruled by a democratic parliament, and its government and people are generally friendly towards Americans. Americans generally give the British people credit for their friendship.
During the Revolutionary War, France was ruled by a king, and its government helped Americans. Since then, its regime has changed. Now it's ruled by a democratic parliament, and its government and people are generally unfriendly to Americans. Americans generally give the French people credit for their unfriendship.
It's not that we've forgotten what the French did for us during the Revolutionary War. It's that we've also remembered what they've done for us lately.
By your logic, we should always hate the British for what they did during the Revolutionary war. And we should never forgive the Germans for Nazism and the Holocaust. And of course the Swedes will always be nothing more than big jerks, on account of the whole Viking thing.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Six month after the publication of very bad amendments to French DRM law proposal
These amendments were introduced mainly because of the fear that Apple would have to change its system to comply with the law. Lobbies have used this occasion to push a lot of "technical stuff" over old senators (I believe they are around 70 on average) effectively putting OSS at risk. You can't have both Apple iTune current system and a DRM-free country.
On a side note, the PM has no power right now and is not listened even by his own political party. The president is in the same situation, in fact, the country is without anyone at the commands. The lethargy should last until 2007, the next presidential election. Do not expect any debate on anything in the meantime, the last important law the PM tried to push brouht rioters in the streets, his current policy is to do "damage control" during the next 10 months.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
There is a thing called protocol. Diplomatic protocol has many functions, one of them is to serve as a spam filter.
It sounds as if what they did was to send the letter to the French PM's office directly where it would be mixed in with all the letters from the other hundred thousand or so cranks writing to him. The chance that the letter would even be read by a minor functionary in that time is small. The chance of a prompt reply smaller.
Correct protocol in the case of RMS would have been to send the letter to the French Embassy in the US and request a meeting with the minister in charge of technology. Demanding a meeting with the PM is pretty presumptuous for a private individual who is not even a citizen of the country concerned.
I was really hoping that this was going to be a case where I could say that I had zero sympathy for either party. However it appears that only RMS was acting in a meglamonaical fashion in this particular case.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
"Being true to yourself is the only source of respect here, conformity to someone else's standards,"
Yes and no. For starters, he is representing 165,000 people, so in addition to himself, he needs to be true to those 165,000 people. Second, politics is a job for salesmen/saleswomen. It is not enough to say to the PM "This is who we are, this is what we think, and this is a list of a huge number of voters who agree with us!" They have to sell the idea to the PM. And in this position, your previous point is partially true, if the PM doesn't think you look respectable, he won't respect you. You could have the greatest issue ever, with the whole country supporting you, but if you send someone who looks like a pressure washed street bum in to talk to the PM, your spokes person won't likely get a word in.
The PM of France probably gets thousands of requests similar to the ones that RMS sent in. Some undersecretary flips through them and determines who gets in. Will that person schedule some of the PM's limited time to 3 guys with a petition which would likely have little gain for the country, or schedule some time with the leader of an international software firm that employees thousands and provides software and services to a huge portion of the economy? It's a no brain-er.
To get philosophical about the whole deal, society is extremely discriminating. Everyone is, it is the norm. Some forms of discrimination are frowned on (race, sex, heritage, religion, etc...) but many more forms are not only acceptable, but expected. Appearance, money, affluence, education, clout, and profit potential are all acceptable things to judge someone on. If set upon by three individuals wearing nice suits appearing professional and politely requesting a moment of his time (30 seconds or less to spout off who they are, their voting block, and that they would like to arrange a meeting), he may go for it. If set upon by two college kids and a showered hippy asking for a moment of his time with papers and a huge role of paper, he's just going to blow them off.
They should hire a lobbyist to at least teach them the etiquette of the position so they can use the system to their advantage in stead of parading about like a bunch of college kids on a crusade.
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Umm, RMS's smug demeanor and obsessive behavior about things like naming conventions piss off a lot of people. Not sure if you've noticed, but he's generally not well liked on Slashdot. If he's not even well-liked here among his own constituency, well, doesn't bode well for his role as a figurehead, regardless of what you may think of his ideals.
RMS is the sort of person who will stand to his principles to the point of absurdity (GNU/Linux, lol) and I would not be surprised if one of RMS's principles is "dressing up for formal occasions is stupid." (Which is not an unreasonable position to hold.)
So yes, he's being impolite, but I think that saying it's because he's full of himself is to miscontrue the situation slightly.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
it is turned around a million times and every aspect of it used in some way.
"British historian David Irving has been found guilty in Vienna of denying the Holocaust of European Jewry and sentenced to three years in prison."
wtf ? in every other case he would be rebutted, his errors corrected.
holocaust research is permitted, as long the results are in line with some guides. "any colour, as long as it's black".
from the interview : "Normally, governments promote and support the work of researchers on historical events and do not put them in prison.". there is only one giant exception.
but this is too much of an offtopic
i don't think so.
from the interview : "We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it."
he basically is saying "if it didn't happen, then wtf is going on with palestinians ? if it happened in europe, then wtf again has this to do with palestinians ?"
he is asking a lot of very good questions that spiegel just ignores or tries to walk around - "But the question is: Why among these 60 million victims are only the Jews the center of attention?"
also, try reading that part about "collective shame".
i suggest we dig out every murder, every war in history and try to find a group of people living here, now, and make them responsible for that.
russia has deported, killed and tortured a _lot_ of people during soviet regime. somehow they are not so important as that one particular group.
see, it's just a business.
Rich