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Broadcast Flag Sneaking in the Back Door

ZeissIcon writes "Public Knowledge.org is reporting that the oft-defeated broadcast flag DRM scheme is being sneaked into Senator Steven's Telecommunications bill. Aside from the fact that it has no business being in that bill, and making no exceptions for fair use, this particular version calls for an Audio Broadcast Flag that would affect digital and satellite radio as well. The bill goes to committee on Thursday, so there is still time for public comment."

28 of 364 comments (clear)

  1. How to tell when there is a problem... by dubmun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    with our legal system: When random crap like this DRM can get implanted in the middle or a totally unrelated bill.

    Has anyone contemplated legislation to stop this from happening?

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    (end of post)
    1. Re:How to tell when there is a problem... by nbannerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of the obvious differences between the US system and the system here in the UK is that bills are typically introduced on a single issue. Amendments are discussed and then voted upon, but it is rare to see seemingly unrelated points being tacked on to bills.

      As for legislation being introduced, the ruling party has no interest in introducing measures to curb it's own power, so I can't see how you'd get such a thing to pass.

  2. You know... by One+Childish+N00b · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, it would be nice, just once, for those we entrust with ensuring the country is run for the good of it's people actually worked for the people who vote for them, rather than constantly trying to sneak pieces of legislation into any bill they can in a bid to force it through because it is clearly so unpalatable to everyone else that every time anyone spots it in the wild they beat it to death and chuck it to the kerb?

    What must happen before the people we elect realise that when a piece of legislation is slapped down as often as this one has been, that the people don't want it, and that if the people don't want it, it shouldn't be a "tough shit, we'll just try again when you look the other way" thing? (and before you answer, I already know the answer - campaign 'donations' matching those the media companies chuck at them - when did democracy turning into 'the rule of those who can buy the elected rulers the biggest, most expensive lunch'?

    --
    Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
    1. Re:You know... by johneee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It always seems so strange to me that politicians would do that.

      I mean, (and I don't mean for this to become a "rah rah Canada" post) it doesn't seem to happen here, and I have to wonder what we're doing differently to make this kind of thing not happen. And why nobody in the US has ever done anything about a practice that really does smack of the worst kind of dirty and underhanded politiking.

      I think getting rid of this piggybacking practice would really do wonders to start to change people's opinion of the political process. But perhaps that's just my simple-minded naivety.

      --
      - ------- There are ten kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who... Huh?
    2. Re:You know... by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "You know, it would be nice, just once, for those we entrust with ensuring the country is run for the good of it's people actually worked for the people who vote for them..."

      You are coming from a false presumption--that the majority of their constituents do not want the broadcast flag. Many people don't even know who their elected officials are--much less what a broadcast flag is and what it means to them.

      I think sometimes here on /. we assume that the stories we read have the same relevent meaning to the rest of the populace. Sure, it's news for nerds. Stuff that matters...to nerds. It's like RSS discused in the Neilsen interview today. Ask the jow blow user what RSS is and they probably don't know. Ask 'em what a news feed is and they probably still don't know, but it's more meaningful than some obscure acronym meaning Really Simple Syndication.

      </Stepping off of soap box>
      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    3. Re:You know... by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pshaw. Just because they don't know about the issue doesn't mean they wouldn't care if they did know. I have explained this issue to non technical people, and everyone I have talked to about it (okay, less than a dozen non-nerds) is against it once they understand it. People don't like being screwed out of things they have become accustomed to. Just because your date used rohypnol and you didn't realize you were being screwed doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:You know... by wish+bot · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Some of us - you know - need or expect some uninterrupted sleep after 11pm or before 7am without some random jock sawing up bits of steel outside our windows.

      It's because of inconsiderate yobs like you that these laws are passed in the first place. If you had an ounce of respect for anyone other than yourself, and maybe discussed or negotiated with your neighbours for the few days you felt possessed like a madman to be working on 'projects' in your yard before 7-fucking-am, then the world would be a better place with LESS restrictions.

      --
      lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
  3. Public Comment? by Unlikely_Hero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've never been able to find how to "publically comment" on these bills.
    Not to mention, I have a strong feeling that the congresscritters probably don't even read the comments. How can we forcibly say to congress that we don't want this passed? (before anybody says writing them, etc, you really think they read the letters?)

    --
    Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
    1. Re:Public Comment? by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How can we forcibly say to congress that we don't want this passed?

      Nothing says "hay guys, listen up!" like a vest that goes BOOM.

      (you did specify "forcibly", which is a funny word to use. Since force is also the reason laws are obeyed.)

    2. Re:Public Comment? by Fallingcow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At this point, it looks like they're going to be tenacious enough with this thing that it'll pass eventually.

      Get someone to write it in to enough unrelated bills, and it'll pass.

      We'll never get enough interest in the issue to counter a determined, monied, well-connected foe like this one.

      Honestly, 50%+ of the electorate is too dumb to understand this (or has so little understanding of the supporting concepts behind it that it'd take WAY too long to bring them up to speed), and another 48-49% just don't care, or at least they don't care enough to make it an issue in an election.

    3. Re:Public Comment? by bergeron76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Writing _does_ work. Political Leaders know that for every letter they receive, there are 20,000 (or some other number more appropriate for their district) other people that feel the same way. It's just the person that wrote the letter felt strongly enough about it to write the letter.

      Emailing them may work also, but I don't think it has the same significance as a letter in hand.

      --
      Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
  4. Thanks! And keep the alerts coming! by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We all need to know about this stuff each and every time. And for anyone who is in this particular senator's constituency, I urge you to send a strongly worded letter (complete with a copy of voter registration if you have it) that he is INDEED being watched and that it will be made clear and obvious to all where his money is coming from and what laws it is being used to pay for.

    I believe all of congress and the senate need a wake-up call when it comes to these practices. They should all be put on notice that there are people who are watching, and the numbers are growing.

  5. Politicians must hate the internet by Serveert · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nowadays when you try to sneak something like this in the rascally public can learn about it in a matter of minutes. :(

    --
    2 years and no mod points. Join reddit. Because openness is good.
  6. Nothing short of a revolution by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nothing short of a revolution can change the status quo.

    The revolution must be then used to dump the current laws and remove those, who are currently in power, and update the constitution to include the new realities and possibilities and to prevent as much as possible of this degradation of human rights and of this invasion into individual freedoms.

    Of-course it is the most important job of the corrupt government to prevent such a shakeup by all possible means including dumbing down the population, removal of all individual rights and even responsibilities (those who understand their responsibilities also insist on their rights,) introduction of laws that take away all freedoms that really matter and nurturing the environment of conspicuous consumption, which is enough to satisfy the current bodily needs and to substitute any mental needs/activities.

    As it is right now television is great for mass control and the Internet is terrible at it. What the US government doesn't understand is that by creating tight regulations around usage of the TV programs, they are just pushing people to use more of what the Internet offers. If I was the government, who wanted to keep tight control over population, I would promote more cheap and accessible TV for everyone and would discourage usage of the Internet.

    Maybe the equation will balance itself out, or maybe those in power will try to control the Internet in the same manner as the TV (this will be much harder.)

    The Internet can lead to organization of opposition and may even be able to provide the means to conduct something of a revolution for the future generations.

    1. Re:Nothing short of a revolution by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Nothing short of a revolution can change the status quo.

      Yes, a revolution is the perfectly rational thing to do, in the face of being unable to copy media with your home-made tivo. That was why they wrote The Declaration of Independence in the first place, wasn't it?

      I mean, sure, a few million people will have to die in the revolutionary war, and it will throw the country (and yes, the world) into a depression unlike any that has been seen before, but that's a small price to pay for my satellite radio copies.

      The alternative... starving the media companies by NOT BUYING ANYTHING FROM THEM AGAIN, is too horrible to even contemplate. You can't expect me to watch PBS. I'm not an animal!

      And don't even discuss the idea of voting against those senators (like Feinstein, CA) who have been the most corrupt politicians for years. I mean... VOTING?! Good God man! Don't you dare suggest it.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  7. Re:You know what? by Volante3192 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, the public outnumbers congressmen around 525,000 to 1.

    Time for some civil disobedience. The jails can't hold all of us if we break this crap. Courts would be tied up for eons, putting precious patent cases on the back burner even if they DID start waving jail time. Citizens that actually have clout would get burned eventually.

    I'm getting very comfortable with the idea of letting Congress passing whatever crap the corporate culture pushes under their noses because eventually a substantial portion of the public will get pissed off and force them to change.

    To paraphrase Gandhi, "535 Congressmen and assorted CEOs cannot control 280 million Americans if those Americans refuse to cooperate."

  8. Re:Obviously... by IAmTheDave · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Obviously you must be new here...

    Because I'm not - and I hope no one else is - surprised in the least. I'm actually surprised it's attached to a telecommunications bill at all. I expected that the oft-defeated broadcast flag would be snuck through in a farm bill, or a bill that feeds homeless children (you wouldn't vote against a bill that feeds homeless children!!)

    Washington sucks. Once an idea is shot down, it shouldn't be legal to attach it to another bill. Why did line-item veto's fail again?

    --
    Excuse my speling.
    Making The Bar Project
  9. Re:Obviously... by DigitalRaptor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nothing should be attached to any bill. Every issue should have to stand on it's own merits.

    And there should be a law that any time a new bill is passed, 2 old bills / laws have to be removed. That way government is ever-shrinking instead of ever-growing.

    Washington sucks big time...

    --
    Lose Weight and Feel Great with Isagenix
  10. Re:Obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Why did line-item veto's fail again?

    Because in a "Feeding Homeless Children Act," the broadcast flag provision wouldn't be the line veto'd.
  11. Re:You know what? by kcbrown · · Score: 5, Insightful
    To paraphrase Gandhi, "535 Congressmen and assorted CEOs cannot control 280 million Americans if those Americans refuse to cooperate."

    They can if they have control over a modern military with a few hundred thousand troops and lots of big guns.

    And don't give me that bullshit about how the military won't be willing to fire on its own civilians. Thousands of years of history have shown otherwise, and there's no reason at all to believe that the U.S. military is so special that it's an exception.

    --
    Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  12. Bought and paid for by doodlebumm · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Congress will never enact a line-item-veto, nor get rid of these attachments to bills. That is because they cannot guarantee to the corporations that buy them (the congressmen and senators) that they can get something passed. You can't line your pockets if you can't get elected. You can't get elected if you don't have campaign contributions. You can't get campaign funding if you can't guarantee getting a bill passed for some group/corporation. You can't guarantee if you can't deliver crap through the back door. Evil men have taken a well designed system (what the founding fathers created) and perverted it into a sickening mess.

    The only way to get rid of the current corrupted system is to vote out EVERYONE in Congress, and vote in just about anyone who's platform promotes campaign reform, line-item-veto, Congressional term limits, and (my one of my personal favorites) no salary raises for congressmen currently in office (they only go into effect for the next guy to take the office - nobody in government should be in charge of their own salary). Then if they don't follow through, recall or vote them out in the next election.

    1. Re:Bought and paid for by absoluteflatness · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Congress will never enact a line-item-veto

      Congress did enact a line-item veto, during the Clinton administration. The first time he tried to use it to get rid of some frivolous spending item, the state in question (New York I think) brought suit, and the line-item veto was struck down by the Supreme Court as violating the doctrine of separation of powers. In my opinion, that's the correct decision, since it essentially gives the President some amount of direct control over the contents of individual bills.
    2. Re:Bought and paid for by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The only way to get rid of the current corrupted system is to vote out EVERYONE in Congress, and vote in just about anyone who's platform promotes campaign reform


      Hm, you forgot (or at least didn't mention explicitly enough for my taste ;^)) the most important thing: public campaign financing. Seriously -- running for elections is a required part of any politician's job, and any system that requires candidates to campaign but doesn't give them the resources to do so is doomed to corruption. It's like a 3rd world country hiring policemen but then not paying them enough to be able to buy food or equipment -- the honest people will quit because they aren't able to do their jobs, and the dishonest people will find "creative" ways to get the money, and we are back where we started.


      And just to head it off the "why should taxpayers have to pay for lousy elections?" response ... the answer because someone is going to pay for the elections, and the candidates who win the elections are going to be serving the interests of that party. So that party ought to be us, the taxpayers.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    3. Re:Bought and paid for by quantum+bit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By the same note, the way riders are currently used in practice essentially gives congress an end run around the Presidential veto, by holding important or popular legislation hostage to distasteful items that are completely unrelated to the main issue a bill addresses.

      Any president who wasn't a spineless pawn of a political party wouldn't let himself be held hostage by that. A smart one would turn it around and hold the pork barrelers hostage.

      The proper response is to have a strict policy of "Any bill with unrelated crap attached gets automatically vetoed. No exceptions.". Given the current way Congress likes to operate, that would mean that everything would be vetoed and the government would come to a screeching halt unless they shaped up.

      A good speech is all it would take to have the public on the side of the ballsy president for standing up to the political machine. If somebody did that they would sure as hell have my vote...

      Unfortunately in a two-party system it would never happen.

  13. Line-item vetoes would make vetoing too easy. by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why did line-item veto's fail again?

    Because otherwise legislators would have no way to sneak their otherwise unpassable legislation into other bills and get it passed. It's akin to a filibuster in that it is an annoying thing to do practically, but the ability needs to be there for the rare cases when it's the only way to get something done. (I would argue, though, that filibusters are used for useful things, while sneaking unrelated amendments into bills is rarely used for anything that isn't evil.)

    I agree with a sibling post that says line-item vetoes should be allowed if the line item is unrelated to the bill itself. I would go as far as to say that amendments to a bill should be required to be related. If they're not, they simply don't belong there. End of story.

  14. Re:Obviously... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well what would be better was if the Constitution just specified that all legislation on a bill had to contribute to a single core purpose, and that the purpose couldn't be overly vague (to keep the purpose of every bill from being "Making the United States a Better Place"). That way the Supreme Court would have the ability to just delete anything that got attached to a bill that it wasn't supposed to have been attached to. It wouldn't solve the problem altogether (and might make it worse -- politicians would just take lots of crap on and let the courts figure it out), but it wouldn't hand that much extra power to the Executive.

    I guess at the end of the day it just depends: would you rather give more power to the President or to the Justices? Historically, the latter seems to have made a lot less total boners, but that doesn't mean they will continue to do so.

    I also think that the USSC should have automatic review of all new laws passed, without having to wait for a challenge case, but that's a separate issue.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  15. Broadcast flag. by PrefersVMS · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK. quit griping. quit flamin'. DO something constructive. How about going over to the EFF site https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?JServSessionI dr003=0qdwvz7h91.app6a&cmd=display&page=UserAction &id=223 Fill in the info, and send it off. If all of us would do this EACH AND EVERY TIME Hollywood tried this, it just might make someone sit up and take notice. Although I did add a few sentences that I'm sure will make my Senators & Representatives sit up and take notice. If they don't stop monkeying around and playing buddy-buddy to these repressive ideas, then perhaps it is time to recall all of the senators and representatives from Washington. Put limitations on terms -- no more than 8 years of service. Not just continous or fragmented, but total years of service. No more big cars. No more living in mansions. No more junkets. No more "special" retirement fund -- they get social security, just like the rest of us. No more special privileges. Perhaps a pay cut back to realistic levels. You get the idea. If they want us to swallow their bull, then they will have to face the consequences. YOU. The voting public have the power AND the inclination to affect change. If you don't take action? Then Hollywood wins. So quit your whining and do something about it.

  16. Futile. by Wolfkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The good guys have to succeed every time. The bad guys only have to succeed once. Eventually, the good guys will fail.

    It's important to internalize that enough to prepare ahead of time for when whatever you want to do ("X"; it doesn't matter what "X" is) becomes illegal.

    --
    Property law should use #'EQ, not #'EQUAL.