Slashdot Mirror
Internet Deconstructing State Church in Finland
Agnostic writes "Freethinkers of the city of Tampere, who advocate separation of state and church in Finland, created a Web site
in 2003
to assist people in resigning from the church. The Web site soon became a big success in Finland. 39% of all resignations in 2004 went through the web site and 69% of all resignations in 2005. In the same process 22% more people resigned from the church in 2005 than in 2004. The most common reason cited for resigning from the church has been saving church income tax (1.3% on average)."
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along..
I resigned from the church ages ago, where's the site to help people resign from the state?
for "resigning" from AOL
The most common reasons cited for resigning from the church have been saving church income tax (1.3% on average)
In medieval England, wasn't the church tithe 10%? They're lucky its only about one percent!
Money is more important than jesus
Over here in olde yurp' a lot of countries are old monarchies and as such, when christianity became popular, kings would mandate by law or edict that everyone else adopt this new God.
:)
So when democracy came about, the laws about christianity and the "state church" just kinda stayed on the books
To be fair, it's fairly simple to opt-out of, and one does get something in return for the tax (christenings, weddings, funerals etc. are all free of charge).
Internet used to get people out of sending money to the church? Splits voluntary religious power from mandatory state power?
I see a new threat to Freedom lurking on the horizon, ready to enter the Republican Party platform as "them" in the "us vs them" Terror War just in time for 2006 Campaign Season.
Didn't I hear about some "Cathedral vs Bazaar" terrorist manifesto praising the Finnish cyberterrorists attacking America's beloved Microsoft?
We've got to rip these Internets out by the roots!
--
make install -not war
what!?!? missionary is subversive? I thought that was the one position that wasn't going to get me into trouble.
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
That is just subversive
Subversive? We're talking about combatting Lutheranism, here. There's nothing more subversive than Lutherans. They have managed to completely take over most of the upper midwest of the US, causing Minnesota to have thousands of lakes in which to hide their underwater fortresses (called "Perches"), and making almost everyone chant their subversive mantras, "Oh yah, you betcha" and "Well, OK then!"
Their prophet, Garrison Keillor, uses his vast network of National Public Radio stations to broadcast his "Pray At Home Companion" show directly into the minds of members, who then send in money and get back tote bags with subliminal messages embroidered onto them by Hmong immigrants working in Wisconsin sweat shops. Keillor's goal? Transition to a sinister god-like form known as a "Lex Lutheran," which allows him to have a hot, but dumb, female sidekick.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Zeus is so going to kick your ass.
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
Ya but Santa Clause is real right .. !? You have me worried here.
\u262D = \u5350
>I won't be mentioning which religious organizations tend to do this, but they all seem to belong to one religion, at least in the U.S.
Haven't been to Utah much, have you? Or Idaho? Where I live, I have *three* completely different religions showing up semi-regularly at my door asking me to join them. I always say I can't coz I'm too busy waxing the goat in preparation for MY religion and ask if they'd like to join. They always say no, even though my religion involves cute blond women and free chocolate chip cookies. Shows how smart THEY are.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
If they believe this, then is it not a theological statement?
Me, I believe I shall have a sandwich. Is that not a theological statement? I also have quite a bit of faith in the fact that the sun will, once again, rise tomorrow. Is that not also a theological statement?
For a less flippant example, many people believe that poverty is a large source of the world's problems, and they work to eliminate it. Is this a theological statement, and action?
Whew, in that case I'm being ripped off pretty badly (paying way more in taxes than my public school education was worth).
I prefer to look at it as paying to keep most rugrats and punks off the streets, if only for six hours a day and half the year. I'd gladly pay more if it'd keep them busy all day long, all year round.
When I went through this process, it was not yet possible to resign through Internet. I had to visit the church office and the priest wanted to have a serious discussion with me. I was a bit rude and cut it short...
Wow, that's hardcore. When I did the same in Sweden, all I had to do was print and sign a letter and send to my church and BAM! Straight to hell!
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
It may not sound like big news if 41000 people use a web service in some small country somewhere. But it is actually a huge effect. In a country of 5 million, nearly 1% of all people - including kids and pensioners - have resigned from a powerful institution with few clicks in the last couple of years. In US that would correspond to almost 3 million people!
Statistics.
And the Church is terrified. Thay are losing income at an increasing pace. They have already announced a need to shrink the number of priests and church workers in the future.
They're honest to let go people that have no good work scheduled to them. A state wouldn't be so kind as to keep labor ready in correlation to need, but to cause an insolvency to induct in the politic of unused service offsetting actual labor being rendered. It looks like the book of Job is being accurately used in the job security at that church. The clergy are being honest, and want no unnecessary burden to attach/tact/tax upon the congregation.
The Lutheran Church of Finland is still trying to defend it's bastion as a major institution on par with government, army and universities. The lutheran church in Sweden has already been kicked out from government protection and the process is beginning in Norway.
The tone in your words resonate of an unconditional dislike to a church. Whatever doesn't qualify as a church, is not to be trusted to minister on your behalf and to the generosoty of your credit.
The Chuch is still powerful - almost evil - consider this:
- Most don't even notice that 1.3% of their income is sucked out
- At the age of 14, kids have to go to religious camps where they are forced to attest their faith. When they graduate, they are rewarded with presents and told that "now they are adults". You might have thought state-churches are tame, but this a Brainwashing, and nothing else. Bloody sickening.
- Even today there is just one (or two?) graveyards for non-religious people - and the church loves it's monopoly - if you are as an atheist buried to church graveyard, you'll have to pay hefty extra.
- Religion is thought in school, and the 85% who are members, MUST attend and pass. Otherwise no diplomas are coming your way. Could we possibly use this time better? Maths, languages, anyone?
- Due to all this brainwashing, is it no wonder that many people in Finland are completely unable to critizise or question the church or religion. Even though nobody talks about it, it is somehow accepted as a part of "culture".
1.3% of income is all necessary for an efficient government (not Government/person). If they didn't notice their money moving to the church services, and don't notice any improvement to their quality of life in the form of actual church services, then there is a refund in order. I agree that it is sickening for a church to qualify who has committed adultery and who is not, especially whhen the scope of language divides the innocent nature in children to act like an adult in concert with the Queen of the damned. With your evidence of graveyards, according to my Bible, evince that a church that holds graveyards is a grave itself; the Lord Jesus says to "let the dead burry the dead." And don't try my ears to say what religion is or not; all law is a matter of religion; your anger is misplaced at religion and the truth that upholds and established religion, when it need to be re-directed to the misplaced trust a malevolent court wards over you as the subject in controversey (become a court of competent jurisdiction already). There needs to be taught reciprocal thought process, to audit all manner of teaching; starting with "faith" defined as "the evidence of things not seen."
In this perspective the phenomenon that is reported here is perhaps THE best internet movement that has ever taken place in Finland. Lot's of money and people are involved, and I hope, some cleansing of th
without prejudice