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Internet Deconstructing State Church in Finland

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the why-does-finland-have-a-state-church dept.

Agnostic writes "Freethinkers of the city of Tampere, who advocate separation of state and church in Finland, created a Web site in 2003 to assist people in resigning from the church. The Web site soon became a big success in Finland. 39% of all resignations in 2004 went through the web site and 69% of all resignations in 2005. In the same process 22% more people resigned from the church in 2005 than in 2004. The most common reason cited for resigning from the church has been saving church income tax (1.3% on average)."

9 of 808 comments (clear)

  1. church income tax? by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Could someone from over there please explain how this Church Income Tax works? sounds scary. Of course, over here in the U.S. the old traditional Baptist churchs do their best to get everyone to tithe (10% of income), but it's not a line item on our form 1040

    1. Re:church income tax? by JediLow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      America in the post-revolution period was actually set up with taxes that went to different churches. The Founders advocated no national one (along with national religion) because they felt it was the responsiblity for the states (which had taxes for churches and an official church). Without looking it up I think the last state to get rid of its official church was ~1830-1840

    2. Re:church income tax? by xao+gypsie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a rule, people born in Lutheran or Orthodox (even in name only) families get their kids baptised and thus to the church's books.>

      I am a Lutheran Seminarian (US). While this has been the case in the past and some nominally Lutheran communities still do this, there is a sense in which those training to be pastors (ie, seminarians) are taught to not baptize a child if the parents specifically declare that they do not intend to bring their children to church. While this is a bit different in the US than Finland, there is a very distinct difference in how this subject has been treated over the course of Lutheran history (which is really interesting for the first 100 or so years, and then boring as hell from then on). It is also interesting to note that the practise of not baptizing a child under those circumstances is an indirect result of the separation of church and state. There are too few of us (we are boring and culturally irelevant) to bring in people that aren't serious about being a part of our community. And yes, i realize that that is an extremely simplified way of saying that...but that doesn't mean its wrong.

      --


      xao
      http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
  2. The exit interview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I went through this process, it was not yet possible to resign through Internet. I had to visit the church office and the priest wanted to have a serious discussion with me. I was a bit rude and cut it short...

  3. Al a carte government services time has come by amightywind · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The exodus from the Church of Finland is just another example of the desire of citizens to opt out of certain government services that do not serve them. As an American I would like to opt out of Social Security, farm subsidies, K-12 public schools, and public television.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:Al a carte government services time has come by boingo82 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You're not paying for someone else's kids' education. You're paying us all back for YOUR education, which you received for free some years ago.

      --
      As a republican I feel it my responsibity to manufacture criminals. People need punished!
  4. Looking Deeper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Everyone's knee-jerk reaction is to say 'good for you' but I wonder how much of a part their church instidution plays in providing support and services we now associate with government. Are these taxes simply lining the coffers or going to things such as a version of welfare and social services?

  5. I'm a hard-core atheist... by October_30th · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...yet I am a member of the state church. Furthermore, I'm happy to pay the small church tax. Why?

    Political reasons. A functioning state church attracts religiously inspired people into one flock and under one "official" Lutheran doctrine that's very, very stable - and dare I say pseudo-secular in its tolerance towards minorities and other religions - in the long run.

    This marginalizes the influence of the more miltant lunatic (evangelical) fringe and enhances the stability of our society. I would go as far as atttributing the complete absence of a credible religious right in Finland to the existence state church.

    Those who seek the destruction of the one, monolithic state church should think about what they're wishing for.

    --
    The owls are not what they seem
  6. Massachusetts was last state in 1833 by HighOrbit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Massachusetts was the last US State in to disestablish its state church in 1833 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Established_church). The state church in MA was Congregationalism (which I think is now part of the very liberal "United Church of Christ"). When MA abolished state religion, they did it as a matter of public policy, not because the US constitution forced them. The idea that the several states are forbidden by the Federal constitutions to have a state religion is fairly modern and was only expressed by the Supreme Court in the 1940s. Up until then, established religion by the individual states and local communities was considered compatible with the federal constitution because the Bill of Rights was usually interpreted to only apply at the Federal level. However, as a practical matter, AFAIK every state has had a prohibition on offically established religion as a part of their state constitutions for a very long time.