Slashdot Mirror
Windows Genuine Advantage Makes Few Friends
With a reminder to "not get silly here," ocbwilg joins several others in casting doubt on the source of the rumor about a mass turn-off:
"A 'front-line tech-support drone' who gets paid $12 an hour to read the support script is somehow going to know what sort of top-secret plans Microsoft has for the next six months? I highly doubt it. It sounds more like the sort of thing that a help desk drone would say to try to persuade a clueless computer user to do things their way.Then, of course, there's the fact that if you install WGA today on a pirated copy of Windows, all you get is the notification message that pops up. You don't get shut down, and you don't even get cut off from Windows security updates (which are truly the only updates that matter, and even they aren't that good). I find it very difficult to believe that Microsoft is going to go from 'Hey, your copy of Windows doesn't look genuine, but you can still install our security updates' to 'I don't know if your system is pirated or not because you haven't installed WGA, but even if it is a legitimate copy I'm just going to shut you down simply because I have no way of verifying it.' Especially not in the span of 6 months."
Along the same lines, another reader asks "Why are we making all this fuss over what could just be a rumor unwittingly spread by a clueless help desk worker? Since when did help-desk techs become privy to future, unannounced plans for a company, let alone ones as sensitive as this one?"
Besides the dubious source, the sheer scale of such an action convinces reader Willith that it's not going to happen — he promises to eat his hat if it does:"The thing to look it is how this might affect legitimate corporate versions of XP — and by that, I mean VLK versions actually being used in an enterprise setting.The company for which I work has more than 100,000 copies of XP running in offices on six continents, participating in one of the largest Active Directory installations in the world. Every system's load is tightly controlled and managed, and I can tell you that there are no copies of WGA anywhere on any of those desktops (I've seen the SMS reports). Nor will there ever be.
People say to 'vote with your dollars,' but your dollars, and my dollars, don't matter. Large corporate dollars matter — like the kind of dollars that can outfit a company's world-wide IT needs. WGA has no place on a configuration-controlled and managed enterprise desktop, and MS would never risk upsetting their real customers — corporate Windows & Office sales — to emplace something like this."
Working machines matter to smaller users, too, though, and Kremit mentions reports spotted online of "Dell desktops, valid CDs, and other licensed systems having problems with WGA," writing "When these systems stop working, people are going to flip. To them, this will be akin to the computer crashing and taking their data along with it."
Other readers had some specific gripes about the way WGA currently misfires in their own experience; Jnaujok maintains that it hasn't worked well for him:
"What about my two perfectly legitimately licensed machines at home that fail the 'Windows Genuine Advantage' test every time they update WGA? Considering that one of them is my copy of Advanced Server 2003, I won't be exactly happy when it gets killed this fall. (Hey, I just use it for the mail server program because I can't stand sendmail.)And I'm just a little bitty guy with one server running. What happens when this hits some company's server farm and they all shut down? How much liability is Microsoft going to have when that happens?
And every time they 'fix' my copy after the new WGA comes out, I have to make manual registry changes. Can you imagine having to do that on a 500 machine server farm?"
Not everyone objects to the idea of harsher treatment for unlicensed copies of Windows; several readers welcomed the idea of more active license revocation by Microsoft as beneficial to the world of free software; WhiteWolf666 described a turn in that direction on Microsoft's part as a "solution to the Linux pricing problem," writing
"35 percent of PC software is pirated. I'm guessing that Windows XP is highly represented in that group (of pirated software; i.e. at least 30% of worldwide Windows installs are not legal). If even 10% of that user base decides to switch to Linux rather than pay the Windows tax, it'll be a substantial marketshare boost.Reader soren42 lays out what this might mean: "If you suddenly force all the non-legal users off your platform, you're forcing them to use something else. Which means, in turn, more demand for OpenOffice, games on Linux, GAIM, ad infinitum — until there is a more, better, complete Linux end-user software stack to seriously compete with Windows."And the remaining 90%? They might decide that the MSRP cost of Windows is too close to the MSRP of a brand-new dual-core Mac.
I'm thrilled. MS has ridden on piracy marketshare for far too long. I hope they do every thing they possibly can to stamp out software piracy, and I hope they succeed."
Other readers share that sentiment, with a twist: on the basis that remote turn-off really is in the near future of Windows, some, like reader ewhac, say they're through with Microsoft: "I just built a brand new machine, primarily for gaming. Oblivion has been fairly sweet. But it looks like I won't be playing those games anymore — not unless the entire game industry decides to support Linux. ... This is morally and ethically reprehensible, and Microsoft knows it, and apparently doesn't care. Well, I do care. I do not, and shall not, grant consent to Microsoft to remotely snoop on my machine, regardless of their ostensible reasons. If my copy of Windows stops functioning as a result, I will take that as a maliciously incorporated product defect, and respond accordingly."
Most people won't be doing the same, in the eyes of RightSaidFred99, who scoffs "Give me a break, people won't be moving to Linux. They'll find a hack for Windows, they'll buy Windows, or more than likely they'll just buy a new PC that comes with Windows legally bundled. Nobody is moving to Linux because the games aren't there, the thousands of cheesy little Windows applications people love aren't there, it's different (read: scary), and it's a pain in the ass for most joe schmoes to install."
Large corporations running Windows are in a more delicate position. Reader lynx_user_abroad doubts that many corporate users are likely to go seek out either free or illegal alternatives to updated Windows licenses. To the suggestion that many users would do just that, he writes"In a contest between you and them, I'd suspect Microsoft is in the better position to understand the nature of the addiction they have created. And I'd feel safe saying that even if you yourself had succeeded in completely breaking your addiction to Windows, which I suspect you haven't.Most people, most businesses are so hopelessly addicted to Windows that they literally can't even conceptualize their own survival without it. I'm always amused when I read the latest rant about a Windows vulnerability on an IE-only site, or read about some program manager publishing their 'Linux Strategy' document as a PowerPoint chart.
Think of all the hundreds of thousands of Microsoft Office documents the average business has, or the potential millions of dollars worth of intellectual property and business intelligence those documents represent. Now, even if they have the skill and determination to propose leaving Windows behind, think of the complexity of dealing with a customer base which might not be as skilled, or determined."
Several readers say WGA's phone-home capability doesn't affect the users who Microsoft would be expected to target, anyhow. GenericJoe says "Forget that," writing "I am a legitimate user of Windows. I know I am, because I bought a licensed copy from a reputable dealer. Thus, I figure, I don't need the WGA to tell me if I have a legitimate copy. I do have a legitimate copy. ...And Microsoft doesn't get to know anything else about anything I do, or affect me. The idea that I can be held hostage because I don't want to trust software from Microsoft. Well, that's kind of crazy."
Reader riptide_dot offers similar sentiments, asking "What if I did pay for [Windows] and I don't want the WGA software installed? I'm not allowed to use the software I paid for because I don't want to add on to it? That's like selling me a car and telling me that if I refuse to put a spoiler on the back that I won't be allowed to drive it."
As to actually unauthorized users, Akaihiryuu asserts that
Based on the common-sense arguments made above, unless Microsoft manages to not only flatten wrinkles in WGA as it currently operates, but also convince more users that check-ins with Redmond are close enough to their best interest to be worth accepting, mass turn-offs for Windows XP users seem unlikely. Thanks to the readers whose comments helped inform this discussion, especially those quoted above:"[P]eople who knowingly run illegal copies of Windows won't be affected by this in the slightest. These people have been cracking WGA since it came out, first with Javascript, then later with cracked DLLs. I'm sure there will be a crack for this within 24 hours of it being released (there always has been in the past), and these people will able to get it very easily. The only people that this will affect are
- People who think they have a legal copy of Windows but really don't because whoever they bought it from screwed them, and
- People with legal copies who either don't want to run WGA for some reason, or
- People with legal copies who run WGA and it mistakenly identifies their machine as 'not legit.'"
Maybe if Windows Genuine Advantage would get off the phone and go outside once in a while, he would make some friends.
mass turn-offs for Windows XP users seem unlikely
Are you sure? My XP box likes to turn itself off at least once a week?
"Dear Slashdot readers, we made big bags of cash on all of the ad impressions generated from the 800 posts in the WGA article we ran yesterday. Today we're going to re-post some of those posts in the hope that it will work you all into a frenzy again so we can get another 800 posts worth of money out of you. Thank you for your support."
s/([Pp])eople/$1people/g ?
uh...wtf man? I thought the first one was a typo, and then every single instance of the word in the rest of it was purposely misspelled. Smarten up.
The poster is stuttering.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Hey, Zeke... that horse we beat to death yesterday... I think it's still moving. I'll grab an axe, you grab a shovel.
Pee people? Pea people? WTF is with the same typo about 8 times? O_O
Somebody hacked into /. and wrote an extra spectactular virus that collects random postings from a previous days article, then uses a random sentence generator to insert related comments on the story, then posts it as a story to /.
... has anybody contacted Symantec yet?
I think this could be serious
Does the submitter have a special stutter that only activates itself when they try to type the word "people"?
Okay, on topic, and beyond what was already in the story text -- what mechanism do people propose Microsoft will use to "turn off" all of those Windows XP systems? Do people think they have some secret code they can send all over the world via multicast, that will tunnel through every firewall in the world to disable copies of Windows XP that they think might not be legit (or which don't have WGA installed)? Does XP "phone home" to see if it should be run every time it is booted up? What about XP machines that aren't even on a network? How will Microsoft disable XP on those systems?
Now I don't put it past Microsoft to want to do something like this, or their desire to force WGA on to every Windows user out there. However, I do question their ability to actually shut down Windows machines that aren't running WGA. I can see them denying them patches and updates. But actually shutting down XP machines? That would require either that:
And even in these two cases, either a simple firewall that blocks access the microsoft.com domains or simply not downloading the update in question would seem to solve the problem rather quickly.
Personally, I'm glad I run OS X and Linux machines and don't have to worry about such threats, but I really don't see how MS can effect such a threat. I am surprised that MS isn't trying to fight the bad press they're getting on this, however perhaps they think that the threat alone will be enough to get people who are using unlicensed copies of Windows to fork out the money for a properly registered copy, as I don't see any good technical way in which they can carry out this threat that even a semi-savvy user could easily work around (or avoid altogether).
Yaz.
Holy cow ... I've never seen the Grammar Nazi hit so hard ...
here, here, here, here, here, here,
Don't you mean the Pposter?
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I think they're referring to P-p-p-people, otherwise known as the users of the P-p-p-powerbook!
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
Roblimo: Hey, lots of people are reading our story about WGA!
...
CmdrTaco: Hey, that's cash, baby. Advertisers pay us for each one. Too bad it has to scroll of the bottom of the list and everyone forgets about it. I wonder how we could milk it for more
Timothy: I have an idea! But it would compromise our journalistic credibility. We could post a story about our story!
CowboyNeal: Our what?
I applaud the creative laziness of the part of the editor. The decision not to spellcheck gets no such high marks.
No wonder you're experiencing shut down problems! Never use the Shut Down... method. The best way to shut down a Windows PC is to be working on something important and not save. This almost guarantees a poweroff within 5 minutes, or at least a very bad crash. If you're lucky it may even tell you that your work is an illegal operation (regardless of its legality). I'm quite sure I won't be harmed by WGA if they decide to shut down all illegitimate copies of Windows, my Windows box already turns off and on more than my laptop with a low battery. In all seriousness, couldn't you just set up a firewall to drop the packet instructing Windows to shut down? Furthermore, reverse engineer and set up a dummy WGA? I've never reversed engineered software so I don't know how difficult it is, but I know there are some talented programmers out there.
I also make my living writing software using MS products. However my home windows installation has decided to say I am not genuine anymore.
God forbid you've run across a (annoying) bug. I'm sure you've never written a line of code with a bug in it. But if you have, I hope your customers don't respond like this:
But this is enough for me to tell them to kiss my big hairy american ass.
I've only had one experience dealing with WGA but I have to admit it was a VERY good one. See, I used to fix my ex-girlfriend's laptop whenever it had a hiccup of some sort (before she became my ex), and last month she IMed me about how WGA wasn't accepting her copy of Windows. So she came over to my apartment and I moved all her files to my server and then started reformatting her comp. I told her it was gonna take a couple hours to finish and asked what she wanted to do to pass the time... and then she unzipped my pants. Needless to say, I decided that the benefit of installing all of the language packs was well worth the extra wait ;).
Add a message upon startup "Please contact the Microsoft helpdesk on ****** to re-enable your Windows product"
Watch the M$ 1st line telephone helpdesk monkeys turn into gibbering nervous wrecks.