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Microsoft to Support ODF via Plug-In
Apache4857 writes "It appears that Microsoft has finally caved. BetaNews is reporting that Microsoft is sponsoring an open source project to enable conversion between Open XML in Office 2007 and OpenDocument formats. The project, hosted on Sourceforge.net, made its initial release today. The Word 2007 conversion utility is expected to ship ship by the end of 2006, and similarly conversion utilities for Excel and PowerPoint are expected early next year." See the announcement in Brian Jones' blog (Jones is the Microsoft program manager responsible for Office file formats).
I bet it will be just as useful as PNG alpha channel in MSIE.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
The correct url is http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/archive/2006/07/ 05/657510.aspx the link in the summary was missing the trailing x.
Now governments can mandate all documents be in ODF format without being accused of abandoning their disabled constituency, and Microsoft will have to compete on its features and performance rather than vendor lock-in.
That's not the responsibility of the file format.
That's the responsibility of the app used to read/write that file format.
And with an Open standard for file formats, there's no reason that anyone could not write an app that did direct file-to-speech with no need for a visual display (as is currently the case).
Well, at least the project is open source so other developers can take it and run with it. This version is not what the PR people would like you to believe. Check out this doozy of a quote from the sourceforge forum:
.NET Framewok 2.0 and Word 2007) or through the command line tool, which only requires .NET framework 2.0. "
1 531122&forum_id=579283 )
"With the first release (0.1 - prototype), you can only convert documents from ODF to OpenXML. This can be done either with the Word Add-in (which requires both
( http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
...SoftMaker's Dr. Martin Sommer states that an ODF plugin for MS Office would hinder acceptance of alternative office suites. Then all of a sudden, MS is throwing in their support for an independant project that had started a few weeks earlier.
So when does the conversion utility for versions of Office people actually have come out? I have yet to find anyone who already owns a version of Office that is looking to upgrade. There are no features in the newest versions worth the pricetag. They claim OpenXML is THE reason to upgrade but with Open Document being availible without the insane pricetag there has been no real reason to upgrade. I still run 2003 on my work systems (only because the retards here already had it when I was hired and no one wants to try OpenOffice.org) and I would LOVE to convert all of our documents so when I finally make the switch on everyone to OO it will be that much easier. Once more governments move to Open Document standards getting OO adopted here will be a snap.
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Well, there was that one puppy, but he is all better now.
This add-in is certainly a step in the right direction. But opening and saving files with this add-in is not as convenient as if the format was supported natively.
Here is an example of the problems that the users will face when using it (from the project home page):
Basically, this add-in will encourage you to convert your ODF documents to OpenXML, but if you really insist and if you really want to save (sorry, export) as ODF, then it will let you do that as well. You will just have to re-type or re-select the file name.
-Raphaël
Microsoft has not caved as TFA says. Now they can compete in new markets where they were being gradually squeezed out. Now organizations can say that they support open standards while still using Microsoft Office. I am sure that they will do a half-hearted job of supporting ODF, and people will grow frustrated with how "limited" it is compared to the native XML file type. They will not realize that only Microsoft's implementation is limited. As a result they might start using the latter for things that are saved locally, undermining ODF efforts.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
"There will be a menu item in the Office applications that will point people to the downloads for XPS, PDF, and now ODF" Looks like it won't be too hard to get if there is a menu item for it. People who want it can find it. And for the folks that are really asking for it (government, etc.) they can just put it in their image or their distribution of the Office install to make sure it is there.
In Soviet Russia Microsoft suppor.... Oh, wait!?
A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Okay, I'm taking bets on them doing this as part of a typical "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, Extort" cycle. I give 2:1 odds on Microsoft producing ODF documents that just don't work right, or are horribly buggy. The import will lose all sorts of formatting and similar such things.
:)
Anybody?
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
This is bollocks. The translator is BSD licensed, you just go there and fix it if necessary.
All in all, this is very good news for Open Source, and a chink in the mighty Microsoft FUD machine...
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
It's a plugin for Word, it's not a separate conversion utility as the article implies.
It can't handle manual page breaks it seems. Once I get OpenOffice.org on here to verify, I'm submitting their first bug report. :)
The default install directory seems to indicate this is a third-party tool, not an MS tool.
It doesn't add file types to the default Open/Save dialogs (the ideal solution). Instead, you import and export the files with their own dialogs. This also means hitting File/Save when you have an ODF file open will open up a save as dialog fro DOCX only.
We need this plugin for Office 2000, XP etc too. No-one is going to upgrade to 2007's DRM hell to read ODF.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
MSOffice97 was good enough for you when you bought it.
If your needs have changed it's only ok that you get a new version.
Of course, you could use OpenOffice 2.0, that works great indeed with MSOffice97 documents, and writes ODF natively.
First off, plugins like this were going to arise anyway. Look at (http://sourceforge.net/projects/aodl). This is a conversion program started in 2005. MS has just decided it would like to be "officially, but not too officially" in charge of it.
? wg_abbrev=odf-adoption) become a member, and get the standards set for the stuff you need? Oh. Because you really don't care, you're just doing "lip DIS-service" to ODF by pointing out the problems that all standards run into.
Interesting comments in the blog:
While we still aren't seeing a strong demand for ODF support from our corporate or consumer customers, it's now a bit different with governments. We've had some governments request that we help build solutions so that can use ODF for certain situations...
From my understanding this is more along the lines of "certain governments in all situations." But, hell, MS can probably win those markets back with an Open Office that supports ODF in some way, but as a plugin MS can blame the standard or the plugin writers (who are working on an Open project, remember, not a MS one!). Which brings us to:
Nobody wants a format that's constantly changing, so if you do decide to extend the format like OpenOffice did, what happens when ODF 2.0 comes out and it specifies that feature differently from how OpenOffice did it?
A little late to ask these questions isn't it? Why not just go to the OASIS site (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php
If Microsoft had gone to OASIS and said "Look we really love this ODF stuff, but to interoperate properly with Office, it would have to support feature X, Y and Z, at least in theory" it would have happened for SURE. However, they were betting that once MS said "hey we won't support ODF" then the "turncoat" governmental offices that had demanded ODF would say "oh... well... poo" and go back to Office.
I'm not capable to judge whether this is true or just FUD, but it is interesting nevertheless.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
OK, I'm gonna bite.
Ah, but that's the point, see? This isn't about migrating to a single format or the like - it's about knowing that whatever changes happen to the software that you use, the format and rules for reading and writing data are *well known* - open, in fact.
The commercial interoperation you speak of is something that has been painfully bought by those who worked for it. Even now, OpenOffice.org has problems opening Word documents because parts of the format are unknown. It had to be reverse engineered - there was no guide or manual about how to read or write it. Or (getting old now) Lotus Notes and Excel - they certainly didn't convert easily to each other. Both closed formats. I have clients who wanted to review some old financial spreadsheets. They were very old password protected Lotus 1-2-3 files. The client only had Excel. Guess the outcome there...
But most of all, by relying on a closed format, by being tied to a single program to reliably read and write your data, you are effectively putting your work in a lockbox and handing someone else the key. You have to trust them not to lose that key, or decide that your model of lockbox is no longer supported. You also have to hope that the person who has your key never vanishes.
Maybe a bad analogy, and certainly it's an argument with strong moralistic aspects, but there are sound, practical reasons for me to have my data in a format I can access easily and look up the specs for.
On a more pragmatic level, an open format makes it extremely easy to write software that can use that format. I could write a web order system that update an ODF spreadsheet with data on each new order. Or create a custom mail merge program using a template ODF document to automate mail shots from a mailing list. Not the best examples but valid ones - *I know how to edit the contents of the document myself if I need to*.
And just one final note - OfficeXML is NOT OPEN. The spec doesn't explain the parts that contain binary data - data that could include vital formating information for example.
Personally, I feel the more open formats the better. The best will always win through. But if just one part of a file format spec is held back, it's not "Open". And that's where we stand with ODF vs DOC/DOCX. And since it *is* a battle, maybe falling in line behind one certain format is better than pushing several at the same time.
"...So I hung back and lurked. For 18 months. Can't beat a good old-fashioned lurking."
As if.
MS has probably realized that the usual embrace, extend, extinguish will work better than flat out refusal. Let's see:
Scenario A: MS refuses to do ODF
Since ODF is making inroads in many places, and is being written into laws in others, flat out refusal will mean either someone else writes a plugin (oops, already happened) or people switch to OpenOffice. Also, it'll mean that Office XML is dead, dead, dead because everyone interested in XML office documents will use ODF while those interested in MS Office will stay with legacy formats.
Scenario B: MS does an Office plugin
If MS "supports" ODF, then everyone used to Word will stay with Word instead of switching to OpenOffice. Also, lots and lots of these people will use Office XML as their document format and only convert to ODF when necessary, a process MS can greatly enhance by making sure that their ODF implementation is just slightly less convenient than their Office XML implementation.
Then, a couple years down the road, they'll add some killer feature that they only implement into Office XML and not their ODF version. Or they extend ODF the way they tried with Kerberos.
"caved in". Pfft.
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Since when did Massachusetts join the EU?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Because Microsoft won't ship it with Office. That's the whole point: In order to obtain ODF compatibility, you'll have to do something extra in order to get it to work.
.doc so they won't have to bother.
People are lazy, and Microsoft knows that; 90% of people will just request that documents be sent in
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs