Slashdot Mirror
UK Gives Go-Ahead to Gary McKinnon Extradition
robzster1977 writes "Judges in the UK have given the go-ahead to the extradition of UK hacker Gary McKinnon. McKinnon is accused of breaking into US Navy, Army and Department of Defense computers in 2001 and 2002." From the article: "On 4 July the secretary of state signed an order for Mr McKinnon's extradition to the United States for charges connected with computer hacking. Mr McKinnon had exercised his right to submit representations against return but the secretary of state did not consider the issues raised availed Mr McKinnon."
If they leave the big red button there with no security around it or guards, eventually someone is going to push it simply because they can. This guy could have actually been destructive, and took their network down. He didn't. spare me the "yadda yadda it was very serious" replies, anyone with a glint of technical knowledge knows it wasn't.
Hail the new american slogan, "It isn't fascism when we do it!"
I've seen this guy in interviews. A clever man, who obviously has a lot more to give to the world. Shame he's going to get disappeared.
What's the consensus on this board, guys? Will Mr. McKinnon receive a trial of comparable fairness in the US as in the UK? If found guilty, will his sentence be proportionate to his crime (the DoJ has indicted him on seven counts of computer fraud, each with a maximum of ten years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine)?
When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.
- Martin Niemöller
Gary McKinnon is another poor dumb son of a bitch. He may well be mentally ill. There's a saying among criminals, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I think McKinnon will get eaten alive, served up as a reminder that big brother cuts you no slack when it comes to stealing their information.
Master criminals execute plans, most convicts commit crimes. Convicts get caught up in committing a crime, they're their own drug dealers and they're junkies. Their brains serve them up a high that comes from breaking the law. Convicts fill our prisons and take their cred from the hard time they do. McKinnon is his own junkie, a convict juiced on committing a crime. His delusions will probablly cost him his life whether he gets to go on living or not.
just my loose change
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Exactly right, even leaving aside the whole issue of how bad what he did really is, it is way too easy for the US to get someone extradited from the UK. They could put him in Guantanamo Bay for all we know...
I'm proud to be a subject of Her Majesty, and accept my responsibilities under her laws - but how come I have to accept rulings from a judge in Brussels or the US? I'm sure they're all very nice people, but they're nto the boss of me. Or at least they shouldn't be.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Spare me the "hacking i OK if I ain't trying to break shit" bullshit.
Every hacker that has every been arrested has always claimed that he was only curious and looking around. Let me tell you something, if you walk into my front door, locked or not, that is still trespass, I don't care if you just wanted to get a look at my collection of potato chips resembling presidents.
This isn't a witch hunt. If you even use a phrase like "I broke in", then you know what side of the law that you are on. These guys are just angry because they know they are criminals, they got caught, and now they are facing the full force of the law. When are all of the Mitnick humpers going to get a clue and maybe not do things tha are illegal?
how come I have to accept rulings from a judge in the US?
[1] Because you hacked into a computer in the US. Don't commit crimes in other countries, and you won't have to answer to their legal system.
[2] Because the elected government in your own country decided to ship your sorry ass over here to answer for your crime.
Great to see the UK judiciary bending-over for a foreign power. Maybe there's a some sort of medal in it for you too?
McKinnon committed a crime here too and, as a UK citizen, he should be tried here. Of course, the USUK 'special relationship' is the most important factor here so the extradition order was signed without so much as a second glance.
"Britons never shall be slaves?"
Not in this day and age.
Bit of a worry really. McKinnon is a British subject, found guilty of a crime against nationals of a foreign country. Why is he being extradited rather than sentenced and imprisoned in the UK?
Another case is Richard Read - the "shoe bomber" from a few years back. He was a British subject (admittedly they didn't want him) and is held prisoner somewhere in the US (or you-know-where in Cuba).
Does holding a passport, or nationality mean nothing? No matter what your nationality when you do a crime against the US, they get to do what they want with you.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
A.)The DOD still owns it
B.)Unauthorized access of a federal government computer is still a federal crime?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
The Chinese government hereby requests your extradition for execution and subsequent trial for voicing opinions in direct oposition to the Party's doctrine on the Internet acessible (by mistake) from China. That is if Iranians do not manage to get you first for daring to speak ill of Islam (evidence of which was secretly presented in a secret prioceeding of a secret court). And so on...
Newsflash: the whole point is that one, by definition, cannot be held liable for crimes abroad if he/she was not physically there while commiting them.
An accusation of "computer" or "internet" crime does not magically change the basic logic of this, it would be equally silly if he had made prank calls to the Iranian Mullahs (severely punishable in Iran, I am sure) or sent booze by mail to the Saudi Crown Prince (which would probably get someone from Saudi Arabia beheaded if he had done so). The foreign laws simply do not apply to activities commitied while in UK.
Which of course is the apex of the stupidity on the part of the UK government and an extemely dangerous precedent. In essence, the UK has acknowledged supremacy of US law and courts over its own by doing this. It is a stance of a poodle beaten into sulking submition, not a proud, independent nation.
This guy modded as being funny but it's sad. Every crime in america contains an adjuct sentence of repeated forcible rape and gang rape. Even for mild offences like check kiting, or smoking dope. Whatever your sentence is you have to add being raped several times a week to it.
That's what passes for law and order here. Being raped for all crimes no matter how minor.
evil is as evil does
the whole point is that one, by definition, cannot be held liable for crimes abroad if he/she was not physically there while commiting them.
So if I push this big red button, and it launches a missile across the border...
Did I say overlords? I meant protectors.
The whole point is that one, by definition, cannot be held liable for crimes abroad if he/she was not physically there while commiting them.
...Then your home country will prosecute you, or risk retaliation from the other country.
So if I push this big red button, and it launches a missile across the border...
So if I broke into your bank account managed to steal a few thousand from you, you wouldn't mind if I didn't tired under UK law. Or at all?
I mean since I wasn't in the UK when I committed the crime then it really isn't any of their business.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The damage is probably pretty accurate. It might seem to you that if nothing were changed, then no harm done. I'd urge you to make that your corporate policy when any sort of break in, be it physical or electronic occurs. The fact is that any breach needs to be investigated, and every system auditted to ensure that nothing was put in place. I'd imagine that some systems were restored from a backup. All of that costs man power, down time, and lost data.
But, you never can tell. I know a lot of coders who take all sorts of martial arts. Most of them involve swords which won't do much good in prison, though.
Actually, the same techniques you use with a sword translate quite well to pretty much any other weapon - stick, rolled up newspaper, etc. Even just your fists.
The lines of attack are the same with any rigid weapon and most of the movements are as well. The problem is that almost nobody ever teaches that fact because most people who train martially do it for the wrong reasons (namely to be a badass or to compete). Those types of schools are often refered to as McDojos.
(Spoken as someone who's trained far too much martially)
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Unfairly? He broke into their computers. He committed a crime. Now he pays the price. So far, fair. Nowhere is perfect, but the criminal justice system in the US isn't terrible. Most of the problems are inefficiency and letting people off easily, not overly harsh punishment. The USA is not a dictatorship. Human right are still respected. The NSA listened to a few phone calls between people in other countries and terrorist suspects. How does that violate my human rights?
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
Only it's not a very grave crime, is it? I like the potato chip analogy - he did look at military potato chips, though, which most people would know is considered more naughty by most countries. I hope his counsel is good and makes sure the sentence fits the crime. I don't like it when somebody hacks my computer, it makes me angry. I'd want to be able to tell them how angry I was. I hope the judge stops there, and marks McKinnon's card, maybe wastes some of McKinnon's time and money. I think a custodial sentence would be harsh, but then, he didn't break my rules. And like others have pointed out here, you have to play by the local rules. I get the impression the USA isn't the worst place to be extradited to. At least they're doing it in public this time!
It's going to hurt a bit Gary, but you have been a naughty boy.
There is an argumenent in the UK at the moment about deporting and extraditing people to nations who have poor human rights records. I think a nation who imprisons people without trial and without legal representation is a perfect example. Step forward the land of the (mostly) free.