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Lens That Writes on Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray

morpheus83 writes "Ricoh claims they have developed an optical component that reads and writes all disk formats -- Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD, as well as DVD and CD -- with one pickup and one objective lens. The component is a 3.5-mm diameter, 1-mm thick round diffraction plate with minute concentric groves on both sides which function as a diffraction grating. Based on disc information the drive can identify which format disk is loaded, Ricoh's optical diffraction component adjusts the laser beam with its diffraction grating for each format and passes it to the objective lens."

28 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. well, now that that's settled by yagu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Phew! I thought there'd be no solution to the format wars.

    Oh wait, there's still:

    • cable wars (HDMI, component)
    • DRM wars (broadcast flag and more)
    • HD wars (DLP, LCD, Plasma, i vs p, etc.)
    • provider wars (comcast, DISH, DirectTV)
    • DVR wars (comcast (ick), DISH (ick), DirectTV (ick), TIVO (yea!))
    • did I mention DRM wars? (it's worth mentioning more than once)
    • compression wars (have you looked closely at the quality of a comcast HD broadcast?, and/or their OnDemand?)
    • price wars. (players, recorders (if you get permission to record), media (if you get permission to play))

    But, at least now we've gotten that pesky dual-compatible use-a-single-object-lens issue out of the way. Now I can tell all my friends and family the hurdle has been cleared and to let the floodgates of new consumers open.

    Not.

    I'm going out for a bicycle ride.

    1. Re:well, now that that's settled by BlowChunx · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...and when that dedicated licensed device dies or breaks? Then what?

      Most consumers will get bit by DRM, but only after the fact when it is too late.

    2. Re:well, now that that's settled by bmo · · Score: 4, Funny

      "I'm going out for a bicycle ride."

      Holy crap, one format war to another!

      The following will generate a flamewar in rec.bicycles.tech that go on for months:

      Shimano or Campagnolo?
      What about mechanical vs hydraulic disc brakes?
      Caliper, Cantilever, Centerpull, Coaster, disc, Double pivot, Drum, Roller, Rollercam, Roller lever, Sidepull, Single pivot, Spoon brakes?
      Low spoke count wheels vs 32 or 36 count?
      Tubular or Clincher tires? What about Tufo?
      Octalink or square taper spindle?
      British, Italian, French, Swiss, or Raleigh threading?
      130 vs 110 mm BHC?
      Hook or no hook rims?
      Does a wheel hang by its spokes or stand on its spokes?
      Disc wheels or spoked wheels?
      Hard Anodizing or plain? Does hard anodizing weaken aluminum?

      And that's just to start.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:well, now that that's settled by AnyoneEB · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the point is what happens if it breaks in 20-30 years or so (or sooner?) when the format is no longer supported (but the discs are still protected by copyright/DMCA)?

      --
      Centralization breaks the internet.
    4. Re:well, now that that's settled by AnyoneEB · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your vomit looks like square blocks lined up to a grid? You should probably talk to a doctor about that. ;)

      --
      Centralization breaks the internet.
    5. Re:well, now that that's settled by John+Miles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And you should be able to do that because...?

      Because copyright law in the US is constitutional only insofar as a work is protected for a "limited time." DRM violates the limited-time clause, so the DMCA and any other DRM-promoting legislation is prima facie unconstitutional.

      --
      Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
    6. Re:well, now that that's settled by Wordsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In a free society, we're only barred from doing the things we -shouldn't be able to do, rather than only let do the things we -should- be able to.

      We should be able to take media, aquired legitimately, and come up with our own means of accessing it. We transfered from records to CDs - but it's still perfectly legal to make your own record player, which you might want to do if no one will sell you one. It'll be a real shame if we transfer away from some DRM-encumbered format and can no longer access legitimately aquired media from the time when that format was in popular use, because the content providers (if they're still around) are no longer interested in making players.

      Usage licenses are nonsense and nonintuitive. Ford doesn't get to tell me whether I can tinker with my car's engine or what hours of the day I can drive the car; Maytag doesn't get to tell me I can't replace a broken part with one I've reverse-engineered; Sony (or whomever) shouldn't get to tell me I can't play there CDs (or whatever) in anything other than an authorized player. They're free to apply the DRM and make it difficult for me, but I'd better be free to try and crack it.

    7. Re:well, now that that's settled by Firehed · · Score: 5, Insightful
      • cable wars (HDMI, component)
      • DRM wars (broadcast flag and more)
      • HD wars (DLP, LCD, Plasma, i vs p, etc.)
      • provider wars (comcast, DISH, DirectTV)
      • DVR wars (comcast (ick), DISH (ick), DirectTV (ick), TIVO (yea!))
      • did I mention DRM wars? (it's worth mentioning more than once)
      • compression wars (have you looked closely at the quality of a comcast HD broadcast?, and/or their OnDemand?)
      • price wars. (players, recorders (if you get permission to record), media (if you get permission to play))
      You're either comparing apples and oranges or standard competition on really all of these.
      • cable wars (digital, analog)
      • DRM wars (they're all just added to each other, not which one's the best)
      • HD wars (each has its own pros and cons)
      • provider wars (market competition)
      • DVR wars (market competition)
      • did I mention DRM wars? (did I mention they're stacked, not competing?)
      • compression wars (again, tradeoffs, though all avoid fixing the actual problem)
      • price wars (you're complaining that competition lowers prices?!)
      To be fair, the so-called DRM war is a valid point, just not with the examples you used. It's more of an iTunes M4P versus PlaysForSure protected WMA thing. DVDs have macrovision, CSS, region coding and more, not one or the other, and the HD formats are or will be the same way. Likewise for cable wars, but it would be HDMI vs DVI vs that new HDMI-esque thing for computers that doesn't have the crazy licensing fee. Aside from that, it's either two separate entities or market competiton (which is a good thing, unless you LIKE monopolies).

      Now back to cleaning out my room.
      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    8. Re:well, now that that's settled by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate to respond like marx did when he gave a speech on free trade here but I fear it is the only option... we should support DRM, make sure that it becomes as intrusive as possible, make sure that at every turn every legitimate use of people's own products becomes difficult and when something like the Sony Rootkit happens (which it will, again and again...) then we seize on it and show the world that this makes the situation worse for everyone...

      Yes! Then our privacy and openness ideologies would be just as successful as Marxism is right now! It is so on the Move in The U.S., Europe and China! The free trade thing has just totally been repudiated.

      Thank you for bringing this option to our attention!

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  2. Read only....for now by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:

    Although the diffraction device works for both reading and writing modes, Ricoh will initially offer the device for disk players only. Because some laser beam energy is lost at the grating, using the diffraction device for recording will require a blue laser with higher power than those used in conventional recorders.

    It's a good start. Legal issues may end up being the biggest hurdle.

  3. cool. by celardore · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wouldn't mind a drive that burned all formats.

    In fact, I wouldn't mind a drive that burned anything at all. My last one 'cookied' about 12 discs before it fucked up and my computer wouldn't start if it was connected. Being able to burn any format would certainly be useful though.

  4. Price by Chrismith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, if Blu-ray players are expensive as hell, and HD-DVD players are also expensive (though not quite as much), wouldn't a player that combined the capabilities of the two be even more expensive? Unless these things can be produced relatively cheaply, then this isn't going to be the answer to the format war.

  5. This one is going to... by dnaumov · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...COST ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

  6. And in others news by Hawthorne01 · · Score: 4, Funny
    Sony Corp, as part of its ongoing commitment to customer service, has bombed the R+D department to a smoking hole in the ground (Being Dabya references in 3...2...1... Write your own schtick, people! :-) ). When asked for an explanation, a Sony spokesperson said that Ricoh's solution "is not in Sony's best interests, and what's in SOny's best interest is in the best interest for the consumer."

    In other other news, the Sony spokesperson in the previous story was just hired by Microsoft as Director Of Public Relations. A Microsoft spokesperson was quoted as saying, "His previous experience at the Iraqi Ministry of Information is what clinched it for us. This guy thinks like we do."

    --
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
  7. This is already used in several DVD players by Cochonou · · Score: 5, Informative

    This kind of multi-numerical aperture diffractive lens has already been used in several DVD players for CD compatibility. As an example, check out this link.
    Notice that you do not only need different numerical aperture lenses to read every format, you also need to generate lasers of the proper wavelengths. There are several solutions for this, but the easiest is to use three different laser diodes.

  8. Oh dear by Mwongozi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is only going to make it more likely that both formats will survive. I would really rather prefer that one of the next-gen formats dies off - I don't really care which one.

    1. Re:Oh dear by aiken_d · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems to me that this makes it more likely that the survivor will be the one with the lowest disc manufacturing costs. So this development may make it take longer for a clear winner to emerge, I don't think we'll see both formats go on forever. And once one format gets the upper hand in mindshare and shelf space, cheaper players will appear that only play that format (cheaper because they will only pay licensing fees for BD or HD, not both [as the combo players will have to do]).

      Me, combo players seem like a good step towards standardization.

      -b

      --
      If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
  9. Re:How unexpected....NOT! by ivan256 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Ricoh is not the firm I expected to announce such a gadget first


    Actually, dispite what the misleading headline would like you to believe, this isn't the first to read both HD and BluRay, and TFA doesn't make that clam... It's the first to read both, and read CDs and DVDs too with a single head. That's the tricky part, as CDs and DVDs use a different wavelength than HD-DVD and BluRay. Prior to this, if you wanted backwards compatability, you needed a second lens.
  10. Re:What's The Point? by Babbster · · Score: 4, Informative
    BluRay has the full support of every movie company.
    No, it doesn't.

    BluRay has the support of computer OEMs.
    A couple. Most are riding the fence, committing to nothing.

    BluRay has Sony putting them in the 100+ million $499 and $599 PS3 that are going to be sold over the next five years.
    Which will only be important if people feel the PS3 is worthwhile, and if it doesn't cause other Blu-Ray manufacturers to jump ship because Sony is taking away their sales with the PS3 loss-leader.

    It's worth noting that while all the currently available next-gen disc players available so far have problems, the $1,000 Samsung Blu-Ray players seems to be the worst of the lot. It's also fairly important that both Toshiba and RCA are already selling their HD-DVD players for half the price of the Samsung unit and the forthcoming Sony Blu-Ray player. Finally, there are more HD-DVD titles on store shelves than Blu-Ray so far.

    Personally, I'm still in wait-and-see mode, but your assertion that HD-DVD is already dead is premature at best.
  11. I have to second this. by Rachel+Lucid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Virtual monopolies are needed (especially in formats) to help consumers eventually.

    PCs took off because Windows provided an equal format for everyone.
    Apple thrives in spite of this monopoly by maintaining its own monopoly through its OS, regulating everything in order to keep quality high and survive as a 'niche' demographic just as concerned with design and appeal as they did utility. Having a virtual strangehold on internet music helped too.

    The only place where these 'format wars' have had even minimal success have been in game consoles, because they were largely seen as competing factions to a toy, instead of a 'universal medium' like office software or movies. If we get back to the point where we only have a couple of key consoles (I predict Nintendo will successfully splinter off, leaving the main war between MS and Sony), so much the better for game programmers.

    1. Re:I have to second this. by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 4, Informative

      > The only place where these 'format wars' have had even minimal success have been in game consoles

      Somewhat. Usually a single console "wins" in every generation. The secondary consoles either die, survive in a niche (Nintendo) or require masssive subsidies (MS, Sega).

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
  12. Re:hurrar by Roguelazer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Reprased: Watch as sales of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players go from approximately 0 units to approximately 0 units

  13. trees! by sky289hawk1 · · Score: 5, Funny
    with minute concentric groves on both sides
    to fit so many trees onto a singular lens!
  14. Thank God! by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 4, Funny

    At least now there's one LESS remote for you guys to hog!

    --
    Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
  15. All disk formats? by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Funny

    reads and writes all disk formats

    Cool - my 5-1/4" floppies aren't obsolete after all! Arkanoids, anyone?

  16. Surprise? by NineNine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's no surprise, which is why I don't even care about digital format wars. Eventually, somebody ALWAYS starts combining them all together, so a few years after adoption, everything supports everything. DVD players that you can get in the grocery store for $49.99 play audio CD's, MP3 CD's, DVD single layer, DVD dual layer, DVD +R, DVD-R, DVD +RW, etc. Hell, My $100 PS2 does even better than that.! (I use My PS2 exclusively for entertainment. Love how easy it is.) As long as there's no physical difference in the format, the digital differences amount to just a few lines of code, which ends up being very cheap to combine on a tiny chip, even after those licensing fees. As long as the media doesn't physically change, there will be increasing convergence all of the time. Eventually, those cheap players that you can get at Wal-Mart will read HD, Blu-Ray, OGG, and WMA's. Just give it time. It'll happen.

  17. Re:They shouldn't be owned by mctk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Companies should not be allowed to "own" formats.

    Why not? Let's review. Because:

    Eventually, they will be broken anyway.
    Likewise, people shouldn't be allowed to own cars. Eventually, they stop running anyways.

    Microsoft should not be allowed to monopolize the market by locking in users to their Office formats
    Locking in users to their formats? Sorry, the consumers have done that themselves.

    the media industries should not be allowed to screw over their own customers by creating formats that are designed to be combative against those customers.
    Consumers shouldn't buy from those companies in the first place. Anyways, historically screwing over your consumers has been a pretty unsustainable business plan.

    Just imagine how many decades we'd be ahead in technology if things worked this way.
    Business does not exist to further technology. It exists to generate revenue.

    --
    Paul Grosfield - the quicker picker upper.
  18. Re:You PC users by pomo+monster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Clue for you: Ford didn't invent the assembly line. The Wright brothers didn't invent the airplane. Wanamaker didn't invent the department store. Edison didn't invent the light bulb.

    All these people derived inspiration from their contemporaries. All they did was "steal" ideas from others and make them better.

    Steve Jobs' saying, that "real artists ship," is right on the money. Production, after all, has a more lasting impact than theory and prototype. Now let's hear from you an example of Linux community innovation even by the diminished standards set by the aforementioned inventors, or fail.