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When Will Games Disturb Us?

Game Girl Advance brings up the subject of emotion in games, again, by going to the dark places. Jane talks about movies that are just plain uncomfortable to watch (shades of Donnie Darko), and wonders why when games will have the same effect. From the article: "Yet you could argue that Manhunt used a cheap trick - it set up the situation in order to exploit it for someone's idea of 'fun.' You could say that the developers did not mean to convey any message beyond entertainment. City of God was entertaining, in the broadest sense of the word, but it was also a portrait of hopelessness and a cycle that trapped its inhabitants; it was also in some ways a social history of gang violence in the slums from the seventies to the eighties. Manhunt does not have enough external references to be about anything other than what it is."

22 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. They don't now? by sc0ttyb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It would seem that the author's never played a Silent Hill game before. Or System Shock 2. Or Eternal Darkness.

    --
    "Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
  2. Disturbing games by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The first game that disturbed me in a good way was the original Doom... even low res, those weird textures that seemed to be based on skinned flesh was just creepy.

    The first game that disturbed me in a bad way was the first Duke Nukem, where if you shot the strippers, they turned into piles of money. That's just mysogonystic. Yes, in theory the strippers were taken over by aliens, but that's wasn't the primary reason strippers were shootable. Someone on the team just wanted to be able to shoot woman (and let's face it, if you listen to the guys at the top of 3D Realms, they strike me as men with serious psych issues with women).

    Even games like GTA didn't give me a sick feeling like that did. The violence in GTA is in the context of the world. The Duke Nukem thing felt like it was someone's sick fantasy that they thought was funny.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Disturbing games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      To be fair, you didn't say anything about shooting men either, and just single out the (female) strippers.

      If I start a new campaign to protect all the young boys of a neighborhood, of course the parents of the young girls are going to complain. But why should they? The young girls are no worse off than they were before.

    2. Re:Disturbing games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, bullets should bounce right off them?

      What if the next time you're in a firefight, innocent bystanders aren't fortunate enough to be from the planet Krypton?

  3. What is disturbing? by Astarica · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Is disturbing being in a dark place and have zombies jump down? Is Final Fantasy X disturbing where you're fighting in a world that is trapped in an eternal spiral toward doom? Is it disturbing that in Terranimga for the SNES, everything you do that you thought was supposed to help humanity only accelerated their destruction? I, for one, was pretty bothered by the intro where the earth's history is presented like a clock, and then the clock ticks to the 13th hour and falls apart. And yet both games are probably the story-book example of how hope springs eternal even in the darkest of hours.

    The mood of a game is a result of its story-telling. If the underlying story isn't disturbing, putting more special effects isn't going to change anything, either. But if we assume there are books that can be disturbing to read, then certainly any game has at least as much access to present information as well as a book, so of course they can be, too.

  4. There's a difference between Creepy and Disturbing by Drogo007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And I don't think mass audience interactive entertainment (a.k.a. Video Games) will cross into truly disturbing Territory anytime soon. There's a difference between being a passive observer to something disturbing such as all the many movies already mention and being an active participant. And I think that the mental and emotional consequences of crossing that line are going to be too high for the majority of people to accept.

    Granted, there's games out there with downright creepy premise, but they don't tackle such socially disturbing topics as movies because movies don't require that you project yourself as an active participant. The mental and emotional toll required to do that would, I think, force 99%+ of people to abandon such a game only a few minutes in.

  5. November 30, 1996 by LDoggg_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The original Diablo in all its 640x480 glory.
    Maybe it was the soft string instruments in the background.

    The intro movie was pretty good too.

    --

    "If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
  6. Back to the Future: Interactive Fiction by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Graphics are great these days, but gore doesn't disturb. I can watch the six o'clock news and get more gore than in the most violent zombie flicks written.

    Storyline is what disturbs. Let's get back to telling real stories.

    Such as Infocom's Trinity (about time travel and nuclear war), and A Mind Forever Voyaging: Starts off with the mildly disturbing premise of what it's like to be a "brain in a vat, experiencing a computer simulation". Continues with the extremely disturbing unfolding of what happens when (because reality's just a computer simulation), the simulation extrapolates social/political consequences of what happens when one plugs in a certain Senator's "plan" to save the economy... and what happens to the brain in the vat when it starts to learn things about the "plan" that the dear Senator might not like.

    AMFV was probably the most disturbing interactive fiction title that Infocom ever released. (Because we're arguably still playing it - you and me reading this - today.)

    1. Re:Back to the Future: Interactive Fiction by wrecked · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Storyline is what disturbs. Let's get back to telling real stories.

      Amen to that. Most of the posts so far , and a couple of previous slashdot stories on this topic, seem to equate "disturbing" with "gore", and offer as examples of "disturbing" games stuff like Doom, Silent Hill, System Shock 2 etc. While these games are certainly on par with horror-genre type films (I loved System Shock 2, btw), they don't capture the same context of disturbing as the example of the game Manhunt in TFA (ie. having the gamer assume the dual roles of murderer and detective).

      A friend and I were having this same conversation last night, about films. A lot of people consider the Saw franchise scary, but for me, one of the most disturbing and suspenseful cinematic scenes recently was the scene in 2005's Crash where the little girl runs out to her father and apparently gets shot. I haven't seen City of God or Hotel Rwanda, which are films cited in the TFA, for the very reason that I think they would not be enjoyable viewing experiences.

      The main question posed in the TFA is: If a videogame is no longer fun, we tend to stop playing. How can you make a videogame not "fun" and still compel players to go on? The hurdle that the gaming industry needs to overcome is the profit motive; games that aren't fun to play are unlikely to be purchased. The film industry, on the other hand, has had decades of avant-garde and independent films to condition audiences for challenging fare.

      The parent poster here cited text adventure games as examples of the truly disturbing and challenging, and I heartily agree with that. I played Photopia, and that game left me pondering.

      Games will have caught up to films when the field will have its equivalents of film directors Peter Greenaway, David Lynch, David Cronenberg, and Atom Egoyan. There is one guy in gaming, John Tynes, who is close. A couple of his pen-and-paper RPGs are downright nightmarish: Puppetland, and especially Powerkill. The games used to be available on Tyne's website, but don't seem to be there anymore, so here is a review.

    2. Re:Back to the Future: Interactive Fiction by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's not the graphics, it's the sound. Today, sound can be reproduced to 99% of real life quality, in surround. Hearing the clanging of metal when you walk on a catwalk and then screams behind the walls can seriously freak someone out. And not only realistic sounds, music has a very strong effect on the player, at least on me. Fact is, the original Doom soundtrack is great and every time I hear it, I get chills. Doom3 had little if at all music during the gameplay, it made it feel bland. While in comparison, the audio in Prey is awesome using the same engine and it's certainly a funner game. Moreover, Doom1/2 was scarier than Doom3 (I mean it!) because of "roaming sounds", which is sound monsters do when you're close they are not alerted.

      Not to knock off story telling, which sets up the mood nicely, but most of the game you don't interact with the story directly and there the music and environmental sounds plays the role of the mood setter.
      Check out any game you could describe as moody/creepy and tell me how is the audio in that game...

      --
      ^_^
  7. not to karma whore, but... by Digitus1337 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When did Diakatana come out? Seriously though, System Shock 2 and Undying may be a bit dated now, but they certainly were unnverving.

  8. XCOM by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The first XCOM had some creepy bits. I remember the first time I found an "examination room" in a UFO.

    The general ambience was just plain spooky, especially the night terror missions.

  9. Not disturbing, just scary. by AEther141 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No current games are disturbing in the "keep you up at night thinking, appear in pathologically terrifying nightmares, make you think twice about telling people about it" sense. They're scary and shock in the same way a slasher movie will, but ultimately they're shallow in the same way, lacking in depth and development. Nothing 'horrific' in that sense happens in films like Donnie Darko, Jacob's Ladder, Requiem for a Dream or Silkwood, but they're far more emotionally disturbing than, say, Doom or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They express a deep, complex and gut-wrenching fear of the real and utterly tragic rather than simplistic caricatures of brutal violence. No game has ever made me rethink my attitudes to nuclear energy, phone up an old friend just to see if they're still alive or toss and turn for days.

  10. Re:Q: "When Will Games Disturb Us? " by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Doom 3 is old hat and monsters jumping out of the closet horror been around forever. F.E.A.R., on the other hand, is a bit more scarier with the psychological horror of actually seeing things. Now that's disturbing.

  11. Re:Q: "When Will Games Disturb Us? " by dubmun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A: As soon as we all play the Silent Hill series.

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    (end of post)
  12. Re:Serial Killer: The Game by Meagermanx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, it's kind of an original concept. Most of the stalk-and-kill games involve creeping up and slashing guards' throats, sneaking further into a fortress, and doing it all over again. Thief, Metal Gear, Commandos, Desperados, they're all the same.
    Stalking people, then killing them, then worrying about the evidence, add some shootouts and narrow escapes from the cops... that'd be great! You could have a voice in your head telling you which victims to find ("Balding man between the ages of 30 and 45", "Young boy with dog") to act out repressed tresspasses on you. The police could follow your actions (for example, if you always kill in a 3 block radius, they'll step up patrols there), you could go on killing sprees, where you'd have to kill X people within X minutes, you could have slasher sections where you'd have to kill groups of cliche, dumb teenagers while dressed in a scary mask... A minigame where you have to invade a high school and take out as many people as possible. Killing with interesting weapons and devices ("Kill this guy by dragging him behind your car." "Kill this lady by setting her on fire.").
     
    Call me deranged, but that sounds way more fun than GTA.

  13. Sanitarium by easychord · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I found the game Sanitarium fairly disturbing at some points. Incase anyone missed it, it was a point and click adventure where the player assumes the role of a mental patient. You drift between fantasy and reality and try to sort out your memories, and save the world or something. I forget.

    It's disturbing not because it tries to shock you with weird stuff, which it certainly tries to do and doesn't do that well. It's disturbing because as you play through the fantasy worlds you get the impression that something very wrong is going on in the real world that you are powerless to stop.

    The answer to how to keep players playing disturbing games is so simple that it's sort of depressing that people get mystified and ask if it is even possible in games. Give the game a compelling story, what they are going through now may be disturbing but maybe the characters and scenario will develop. You could also, like, make the game fun to play. Worth a try.

  14. Re:Serial Killer: The Game by Osty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, it's kind of an original concept. Most of the stalk-and-kill games involve creeping up and slashing guards' throats, sneaking further into a fortress, and doing it all over again. Thief, Metal Gear, Commandos, Desperados, they're all the same. Stalking people, then killing them, then worrying about the evidence, add some shootouts and narrow escapes from the cops... that'd be great! You could have a voice in your head telling you which victims to find ("Balding man between the ages of 30 and 45", "Young boy with dog") to act out repressed tresspasses on you. The police could follow your actions (for example, if you always kill in a 3 block radius, they'll step up patrols there), you could go on killing sprees, where you'd have to kill X people within X minutes, you could have slasher sections where you'd have to kill groups of cliche, dumb teenagers while dressed in a scary mask... A minigame where you have to invade a high school and take out as many people as possible. Killing with interesting weapons and devices ("Kill this guy by dragging him behind your car." "Kill this lady by setting her on fire.").

    What you just described already exists, but for the last few bits. It's called Hitman. No, it's not a serial murder simulator, but it's pretty much exactly what you described: Stalk your victim to learn their patterns, stay hidden, kill your victim (and others, if you like, though no Silent Assassin rating for you if you do), leave no trace. The "voice in your head" is the agency that sends you on the hits rather than schizophrenia, but is it really that different?

  15. Creepy is not disturbing by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey guys! Yeah you, the ones with mod points. Why are you modding up all these posts about being scared or "creeped out" by a video game? That's not disturbing, anymore than riding a roller-coaster is disturbing.

    Storylines that pull back the fascia of society to reveal ugly truths about the nature of man are disturbing. Hotel Rwanda is disturbing. A love story like Oasis where one social outcast rapes another and yet the two are able to develop a relationship that is 100x more healthy than the "normal" society around them is disturbing (just read the comment from the woman who naively rented the movie for valentines day).

    The point of the articles is that movies like those are the level of story-telling to which video games should be striving. What the article doesn't really discuss is just how to motivate someone to continue interacting with a game when the story hits them with such a huge emotional wallop. When it happens in a movie, the audience can just sit there, stunned into immobility (and often tears) and let the experience flow over them. But that's not what games are about. Perhaps it is just not possible for a game to evoke the kind of strong, personally felt, emotions that a movie or book can. Or perhaps the genius who will figure out a way just hasn't been born yet.

  16. H.P. Lovecraft by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Sorry doom 3 was creepy as hell (bad pun) when i frirst started.. then again i did start at night with the lights off and hifi audio going - the random people screeming through the walls really got me.

    If you want to understand the difference between elemental horror and the fun-house shocks of Doom there is no better place to begin than with H.P. Lovecraft: Tales, in The Library of America series.

    Lovecraft's best effects are achieved through suggestion.

    You never see anything clearly or fully but you are left with the conviction of having encountered something profoundly alien.

    1. Re:H.P. Lovecraft by Reziac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of the best DOOM maps utilize the same principle: you KNOW the monsters are there somewhere, and you might hear them, but you have no idea when, where, or how you'll be attacked.

      I recall one memorably scary map that starts off totally empty, and lets you explore the entire thing, poking and prodding equipment as you feel the urge... then when you've about decided everything is safe, or at least where some safe spots might be, bad things start happening. And it's set up so the monsters arrive randomly.... but by that time your nerves are already shot. :)

      Point being, any prolonged anticipation of KNOWING something bad is going to happen, but not when or how, can be extremely scary in itself... much like the "evil that's only glimpsed" technique used by Lovecraft. The trick is to build up a sense of the situation being out of your control.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  17. Eternal Darkness on Gamecube by Wind_Walker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure it's "disturbing" in the way that, say, A Clockwork Orange was, but Eternal Darkness for the Gamecube was a very freaky experience for me.

    For those who aren't familiar (shame on you) the game used so-called "Insanity Effects" which were basically designed to make your character think they were going crazy - except they also applied to you. You would walk into a room and be immediately decapitated. Then the screen would flash, your character would scream a bit, and you could continue playing the game. Other effects included rooms appearing completely upside-down, invincible monsters, and ever-present whispering that really freaked me out the first time I heard some of them.

    ED was fantastic at really working the psyche and trying to make a real "Horror" game that didn't involve things randomly jumping through windows at you.