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Yahoo! Sells, Advocates DRM-Free Music

prostoalex writes "Jessica Simpson's 'A Public Affair' will be sold on Yahoo! Music in MP3 format with no DRM attached. According to Yahoo! Music blog, this is a big deal for the major online music store: 'As you know, we've been publicly trying to convince record labels that they should be selling MP3s for a while now. Our position is simple: DRM doesn't add any value for the artist, label (who are selling DRM-free music every day -- the Compact Disc), or consumer, the only people it adds value to are the technology companies who are interested in locking consumers to a particular technology platform. We've also been saying that DRM has a cost. It's very expensive for companies like Yahoo! to implement. We'd much rather have our engineers building better personalization, recommendations, playlisting applications, community apps, etc, instead of complex provisioning systems which at the end of the day allow you to burn a CD and take the DRM back off, anyway!'"

28 of 244 comments (clear)

  1. please explain by yagu · · Score: 4, Informative

    Please explain to me what this really is. I visited the page, and what it looks to be is the users' ability to download an unfettered "customized" mp3 from Simpson where (I assume) a laundry list of common names are inserted into the mp3 (dubbed, no doubt)... giving the customer the illusion of some connection with the artist. (So far, it appears a more correct headline would have been "Yahoo advocates DRM-free music, offers one DRM-free song from their catalog!)"

    Obscene marketing and subterfuge aside, I find nothing in the general Yahoo Music offerings to suggest the rest of their music is offered unfettered, free of DRM. Indeed, the FAQ includes the following info:

    1. Yahoo! Music does not permit copying or transferring music files to other users. Share function available only for subscribers to access another subscriber's Yahoo! Music Unlimited music files.
    2. Using Yahoo! Music Unlimited subscription music with a portable device requires Microsoft Windows XP and is subject to an extra monthly/annual subscription fee and is not included in this free trial offer. See details during registration.
    3. Yahoo! Music Unlimited: $59.88 per year, billed annually (that's just $4.99 per month); or $6.99 per month, billed monthly. Yahoo! Music Unlimited is available to U.S.-based subscribers only.

    There is also a "requirement for Windows Media Player 9.0 or higher mentioned on the Yahoo Music home page -- sheeeesh!.

    Any information/explanation or evidence to the contrary would be greatly appreciated, because, other than the free advertising, I'm not seeing any change in direction from Yahoo on this one.

    1. Re:please explain by Bryansix · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yahoo! Music Unlimited is a subscription based service. This is not what the article is refering to. It is refering to the actual selling of music files. With the service you do not own any music but simply pay a fee to be able to access Yahoo!'s collection of music. If you bought the song in question then you would own it outright.

    2. Re:please explain by hackstraw · · Score: 5, Funny

      Re:please explain

      I second the motion.

      WTF? Being a good slashdotter, I did not read the article before checking out the posts, and then I read the parent post and had to check this out for myself.

      So, for $2 I can have my name embedded somehow in a music file of Jessica Simpson? Maybe having her titties embedded in my face, I might throw down $2, but after reading the two links, I still don't see what the extra $1 gives me over a standard $1 track.

      I'm all for the token statement against DRM. Its dead on. Yes, DRM free stuff is sold every day. Yes, its still practically illegal or at least easier and better to get MP3s the old fashioned way that are free of DRM. But I have no clue what the point of this Yahoo! thing is besides a slashvertisement astroturfing or whatever you call marketing today.

    3. Re:please explain by cliath · · Score: 5, Informative

      The big deal is that Yahoo! actually got the record company to allow them to sell DRM free music.

    4. Re:please explain by Luke+Psywalker · · Score: 5, Informative

      The tracks have unique inaudible soundwave watermarks that can be traced back to the buyer if they are found on P2P networks. This is the only reason the labels are going for it. The tech comes from Fraunhofer

    5. Re:please explain by trewornan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Spread frequency watermarks are only effective with individual files (effective means that altering the file enough to guarantee removing the watermark causes an unacceptable loss in quality). If you've got lots of files with different data in the watermark (like the name of the buyer) you can remove the watermark from any file without significant loss in quality. There is (to the best of my knowledge) currently no watermarking system robust to this attack.

      You could therefore set up a system where the more people share a file the better quality file can be downloaded - and still guarantee removal of all watermarks specific to any one purchaser.

      It's theoretically possible at least but whether a workable system could be set up in practice I don't know.

      Less sophisticated watermarking systems (like least significant bit) are trivial to defeat and I assume no competent company is using them.

    6. Re:please explain by trewornan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm no expert and this stuff is cutting edge but I'll try my best to address some of your comments.

      Assumming the only variance is the watermark and the tracks are sample for sample nearly the same... it would make it rather not-difficult to remove the water mark

      It's not as simple as this comment seems to imply, spread frequency watermarks use transforms (obviously DFT was one of the first to be used) so you can't simply average two files and expect to remove the watermarks.

      the file hash will be different. So would that cause every variation to show up on a p2p network . . . assumming most P2P apps use a simple md5 sum or some such

      Identifying copies of the same file with different watermarks would definitely be a problem - you'd probably have to rely on uploaders entering accurate metadata of some kind - not ideal.

      such a setup might suffer from generational loss

      I don't see how this would be relevant you're not making imperfect copies of previous imperfect copies of previous imperfect copies . . . ad nauseum

      Artifacts are bound to slip in at some point in the mass sharing frenzy of an ant farm.

      It works the other way around - the more versions you have to compare the fewer artifacts will crop up, you get closer and closer to the original un-Watermarked version instead.

      you run the risk of generating too much data. In turn it could cause issues scaling

      I hadn't thought about this but you're right reversing a DFT is going to be computationally expensive.

    7. Re:please explain by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know what? I don't care.

      There are two reasons to oppose DRM - "personal convenience" and "a licence to pirate".

      While I've been known to pirate in the past (hell, who hasn't?), my main objection to DRM is that once I buy the file I want to own it. I don't want anyone telling me I can only play it on certain makes of MP3 player, can't transcode it to Ogg Vorbis, stream it to other PCs in my house, etc.

      Finally a mainstream media company has somehow persuaded the idiots at the RIAA to allow unDRMed downloads on a trial basis. This is a good thing.

      Frankly, anyone who opposes DRMed music primarily because it allows them to pirate and distribute is a thief^H^H^H^H^H copyright violator, and should shut up and sit down now to avoid fucking things up for everyone else.

      While I appreciate the OP's information on the watermarking technology, it's completely irrelevant - there's no excuse for sharing the MP3 of this track, now there's an affordable (expensive, sure, but it's only a test), unDRMed cross-platform, mainstream outlet to legally purchase it from.

      Anyone pirating this track is frankly working against the chances of the RIAA dropping DRM - you will be ruining a brave (if overdue) experiment, and directly contributing to a future of omnipresent DRM lock-in.

      Regardless of what you think of the artist or the song, the sales figures for this track likely dictate the entire future position of the RIAA/music industry. Pirating it is the worst kind of short-term-gain idiocy.

      I hate Jessica Simpson and the MP3's overpriced, but I'll be buying this track - and if you're anti-DRM (as opposed to pro-piracy), so should you.

      </advocacy>

      (Let the accusations of shilldom fly... ;-)

      --
      Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
  2. props to yahoo by crabpeople · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Companies talk of thinking different, while others actually perform different. Tip of the hat to yahoo who may strangely become relevant again.

    --
    I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
    1. Re:props to yahoo by anagama · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I personally never saw the point of DRM anyway. ... The reason people pay for digital downloads is that it is convenient and fast.
      You forgot another important reason: to compensate the artist. Believe it or not, some people feel good about compensating others for work they find enjoyable (or in the case of linux: useful). I know this is not exactly a popular sentiment here, but I don't really have a problem with DRM. It isn't like I have natural god-given right to have someone's music on my terms alone -- the owner naturally has a say in whether he/she wants to avoid DRM and in all likelihood, give up a significant amount of direct compensation for the recording. Now, DRM-free music may very well be of great benefit for the artist in other ways, but we'd all be fooling ourselves if we thought nobody would take advantage of a DRM-free situation. And even if DRM-free distribution would make an artist the greatest thing in the world, it isn't our choice. People need to be allowed to make lousy decisions.

      Personally, I avoid DRM'd music anymore because I got sick of the issues associated with it (I'm thinking of iTunes specifically, emusic is so much simpler), but whoever owns the music gets to make that DRM decision. I can be dissapointed, but I can't really blame them either. Very few people are willing to give as much as those in the GPL world do -- those who let most direct compensation go in exchange for indirect compensation.
      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    2. Re:props to yahoo by merreborn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tip of the hat to yahoo who may strangely become relevant again.

      I'm sorry, remind me how the web portal that's held the number one spot in traffic rankings for years could ever be considered irrelevant?

      Sure, they haven't been in the limelight like google has in a few years, but they've still got more eyeballs than anyone else, still employ thousands, and still churn out new stuff all the time.

  3. Re:Wah!? by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Funny

    Funny- normally my eyes are ok looking at her, its my ears I want to shut off.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  4. It's a scam, a straw-man by IBitOBear · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because when the track doesn't sell for shite (because the content is shite) then everybody will wave and wail that _clearly_ once the track was out there, the reason it didn't sell was that The Pirates(tm) turned it to the P2P dark side.

    You know what I am getting at here. 8-)

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  5. No DRM not worth the cost of downloading that song by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    i think the original article read:

    "According to Yahoo! Music blog, this is a big deal for the major online music store: 'As you know, we've been publicly trying to convince record labels that they should be selling MP3s for a while now. Our position is simple: Jessica Simpson doesn't add any value for the artist, label (who are selling Jessica Simpson-free music every day), or consumer, the only people it adds value to are the technology companies who are interested in locking consumers to a particular technology platform. We've also been saying that Jessica Simpson has a cost. She's very expensive for companies like Yahoo! to implement. We'd much rather have our engineers building better personalization, recommendations, playlisting applications, community apps, etc, instead of complex provisioning systems which at the end of the day allow you to burn a CD and take the Jessica Simpson back off, anyway!'"

  6. never thought it would happen by minuszero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is the music industry starting to see sense?

    I'm not going to be a /. pessimist and go searching for the loopholes. Sometimes it pays to be an optimist, and I reckon Yahoo et al. are going to need all the encouragement they can get to convince record exec's that this is a Good Idea (TM).

    Then we might see some decent music being released unrestricted!

  7. Ah great! by The+Munger · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ah great! Now I have to balance buying a non-DRM'd product to show the people in charge that it can actually work against owning a Jessica Simpson song. The agony of these modern times.

    --
    Refuse to make a statement in your sig!
    1. Re:Ah great! by somethinghollow · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm going to buy it to help prove a point to the music industry. Then I'm going to delete it to prove another point to the music industry.

  8. I guess DRM has some uses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I just hope they keep Ashley Simpson's msuic DRMed.

  9. iTunes take note.. by BawbBitchen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I love iTunes. And I love the music store. Lately I have found myself buying CDs that I downloaded from the music store because I wanted non-DRM copies so I can share them on my home network that includes non-iTunes using boxes. I do not think I will be buying anything else from iTunes.

    www.beastproject.org

  10. The last thing I would have guessed.... by pentapenguin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I never thought I would live to see the day when a major (really major) company not only publicly supports but actually takes the plunge to sell non-DRM infested music. What's next? Sony will release a $199 PS3? (Har har...)

    This kinda reminds me of Gmail. Back when it came out it was just unthinkable that a company would give you more than a few MBs of storage for free let alone a whole GB! Nowadays, everybody gives you at the minimum of 200MB. I think that Yahoo, like Gmail, just might profoundly shift the paradigm of online music distribution like Gmail changed the way we think of free email.

    Is this the beginning of the end of DRM? Not quite yet IMO because the RIAA and MPAA are still run by idiots, but I think the day may come sooner than we think if more major players like Yahoo come on board.

    --
    -pentapenguin
  11. Is DRM-free worth $1? by jevvim · · Score: 4, Insightful
    iTunes sells DRM-encumbered music for $0.99 per song. This Jessica Simpson song (which, for now, appears to be a one-off in MP3 formwat) is priced at $1.99. Assuming that you put no value on having "your name" in the version of the song you download, should we consider this a test of the price consumers will pay to be able to do what they want with their music?

    I've seen reports that record companies aren't "happy" with the royalties they're getting from iTunes. Could higher-priced, DRM-free releases be part of their solution? Skeptical though I am, I hope so. Even though I have a Mac, an iPod, and many tracks I've bought from the iTunes store, I'd rather Apple not be the "only game in town" for music on my iPod. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, even through a reality distortion field I expect.

  12. Re:Great news!! by askegg · · Score: 4, Funny

    I look forward to the "good taste" DRM that refuses to play music of questionable quality - maybe we can call it peril sensitive?

    --
    I don't make predictions, and I never will.
  13. This much should be obvious by xigxag · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This much should be blindingly obvious. However, for the benefit of the people on the 8-bit bus:

    1) This is a trial balloon. If it sells well, it may convince some retailers to experiment with further DRM free tracks. If it sells poorly, it will serve as "proof" that DRM is needed.

    2) There's at least somebody on the command chain who wants this to fail. Hence the $1.99 price.

    3) The record company couldn't stomach the idea of a totally naked mp3 so they came up with this lame idea of embedding the purchaser's name in the file. If course this is easily worked around, but so's regular DRM. This is to deter the teeming masses. If John Q. Moron decides to fileshare, he'll soon be indicted by a thousand copies of "Jessica Loves John Q. Moron" floating around. You might add that they were being slightly clever by selling this crude copy protection measure as a value added feature.

    I'd also speculate that might be meant to caution Microsoft ever so lightly. MS is openly scheming against its current music partners by introducing Urge and Zune. But it wants to keep them hooked on Plays For Sure while making sure their services are inferior to its own offerings. This is Yahoo's way of saying, "Look Microsoft, we might not need your crap DRM after all, so watch yourself."

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
  14. Stating the obvious: This is about the iPod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before getting all excited about Yahoos altruism, think about the business side.

    Apple has what...80%... of the portable music player market?

    Until apple decides to share their DRM, everyone else (including Yahoo) is locked out of the iPod market.

    MP3s are their only way in. If they can manage to line up some labels, they will suddenly have access to a totally new and much larger customer base.

  15. Sounds good, but... by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. What's the bitrate? It needs to be at least 192 kbps.

    2. Jessica Simpson's "A Public Affair"? Hmm, I was considering downloading just to show I'm supportive of a non-DRM model, even if it would need future tweaks, but just to try get the industry on the right track. BUT... Jessica Simpson? I really don't know if I can do this. :-(

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  16. Translation: Market Speak to Reality by Shihar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yahoo said:

    As you know, we've been publicly trying to convince record labels that they should be selling MP3s for a while now. Our position is simple: DRM doesn't add any value for the artist, label (who are selling DRM-free music every day -- the Compact Disc), or consumer, the only people it adds value to are the technology companies who are interested in locking consumers to a particular technology platform. We've also been saying that DRM has a cost. It's very expensive for companies like Yahoo! to implement. We'd much rather have our engineers building better personalization, recommendations, playlisting applications, community apps, etc, instead of complex provisioning systems which at the end of the day allow you to burn a CD and take the DRM back off, anyway!

    This translates into:

    OMFG, for the love of god, PLEASE LET US SELL OUR SHIT TO IPOD USERS!!1!!!!!!1!1111!

    Basically, what is happening is that all the non-iTunes are getting trounced by iTunes and the iPod. The music industry won't let them sell their music unless it has DRM. Apple isn't selling them the rights to use the DRM that the iPod uses and Apple sure as shit is not going to build in WMA DRM capabilities into the iPod. With iPods being roughly 80% of the MP3 market, this is a massive audience that Yahoo, Napster, Rhapsody, exc can't touch. They desperately want to sell, but they are not allowed to sell unless the music has DRM. Apple won't let them us an iPod compatible form of DRM.

    This isn't a marketing ploy to pretend to be anti-DRM when they are not, and this is not being done because they "want to work on other stuff". This is being done because DRM free music is the only way Yahoo and company can break into the monopoly iTunes has over the iPod, which itself has a near monopoly on MP3 players.

    This is a play of self interested corporations. Apple wants to lock down the iPod not because they want to set music free, but because they want a monopoly over the service that fills iPods. Yahoo wants to sell DRM free music not because they give a shit about how irritating DRM is to you and me, but because they want to sell music to iPod users. The RIAA, well, they are just evil and eat babies.

  17. Speaking of Simpsons... by identity0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bart Simpson: "Hello, I'd like to be included in the song please. Last name Diekoff, first name Aikatmai."

    Jessica Simpson: "OOOh, baby, I want you so bad, Aikatmai Diekoff! ... Damnit! Listen, you little saw-headed twerp, if I ever catch you, I'm going to shove my Botox needles down your eyeballs and sic my Pomeranian on your ass!"

  18. Re:Watermarks useless? by mako1138 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, the RIAA has sued dead people and people without computers, so presumably they would ignore your excuses, even truthful ones.