Vinod Khosla Talks Ethanol

IamTheRealMike writes "Vinod Khosla, venture capitalist and co-founder of Sun, has a new obsession these days. Ethanol is the fuel touted by many as an alternative to dwindling oil stocks, but is it all it's cracked up to be? Whilst Khosla is an avid supporter of ethanol as an alternative fuel (video link) his optimistic views have been rigourously challenged by Robert Rapier, an oil industry insider who is also engaged in a quest to discover alternatives. Recently the two debated via phone the merits of an ethanol economy, and Mr Rapier has now written up a report of the debate. What will be powering our cars 10 years from now?"

Comments

Re:Ethanol is NOT the silver bullet!

[mypalmike]

And lastly, most ethanol is produced by corn in an extremely wasteful process that requires an enormous amount of energy which cuts in on its overall efficiency.

Worldwide, most ethanol is actually produced by sugarcane. The corn thing is a US-specific thing based largely on the economics of government subsidies. Per-acre ethanol yields for sugar cane (Brazil and India) and sugar beets (France) are reportedly double that of corn in the US.

BIO DIESEL

[tacocat]

• Diesel technology is over 100 years old.
• Bio Diesel is obtained from a variety of sources, not just corn.
• Bio Diesel is 100% compatible with any diesel engine on the market today.
• Bio Diesel is bio-degradable.
• Bio Diesel is non-toxic.
• Bio Diesel doesn't blow up.
• Bio Diesel produces less emissions than ultra-clean Dino Diesel.
• Bio Diesel may produce less emissions than gasoline (hard to test with different engines)
• Bio Diesel has a 2% lower energy density than Diesel. Ethanol is 30% less than Gasoline. This means you pay more at the pump to drive 100 miles.
• Bio Diesel smells like fries, really!

If you want to get energy independent quickly and reliably, this is the answer. If you want to create a lot of sloppy hype and get people to spend stupid amounts of money on shoddy technology that's going to be under development for decades, then micro-pile atomic reactors are a better bet than Ethanol.

Ethanol is not perfect. It's only being hyped because GM et al are selling E85 engines. They aren't selling Diesel engines because they don't know how to make small ones. VW, BMW, Peugot, Reanault, and Mercedes all have decades of experience with small block engines. E85 is being pushed because if they pushed Diesel engines what little is left of the big three would collapse over night. Personally, I prefer Diesel. It isn't going to explode.

Re:BIO DIESEL

[Desert Raven]

Having worked in emergency services for a number of years, I can tell you that diesel is far more stable, and less likely to explode under normal conditions than gasoline.

Try this: You go into your garage (door closed), and pour two gallons of gasoline on the floor. Wait 20-30 minutes, then light a match. I'll do the same thing with 2 gallons of diesel. I can already tell you the results. In your case, your garage will be reduced to splinters, if not your entire house. In my case, I'll be looking at the floor trying to figure out the best way to clean up 2 gallons of spilled diesel.

Re:What will be powering our cars 10 years from no

[SatanicPuppy]

Whenever someone pushes ethanol that hard, they're really pushing for corn subsidies. If he starts talking wood chips or sawgrass, that might be something worthwhile, but as it stands it's just another pork project.

Re:I have read...

[QRDeNameland]

Actually, Brazil (which encompasses much of the Amazon basin), manages a great degree of self-sufficiency for vehicle fuel using ethanol, and they haven't had to use 97% of their land to do it. A large part of their success stems from the fact that they use sugar cane, not corn, to make ethanol, which I read is far more efficient in terms of both land use and energy required for conversion than corn.

Corn is not a great source for producing ethanol, but the reason it is the highly touted source in the US is because there is already a massive and highly subsidized infrastruture for growing corn in the US, and corn farmers have a powerful lobby. Ethanol from corn may well not be a long-term energy solution, but that doesn't mean that ethanol form other sources can't be viable, and Brazil has shown that.