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Eureka! Archimedes Revealed
pin_gween writes "The Mercury News has an AP wire that shows science uncovering history. 800 years ago a monk scrubbed the text off a goatskin parchment to write prayers. Nothing unusual there, except the parchment contained writings from a copy of Archimedes' Palimpsest. Now scientists are using x-rays, generated by a particle accelerator, to cause tiny amounts of iron left by the original ink to glow without harming the delicate goatskin parchment. It takes 12 hours to scan one page, then the information is posted online."
Although this is a cool discovery, it would have been cooler if the lost writings were by a Greek intellectual whom we have less information about, say Heraclitus. Well, there is always the possibility that this technique could be used to recover other "lost" texts.
Philosophy.
Check out the article -
It was probably the only reason we got these writings in our hand.
If it was just the text of archimedes, then it would have been destroyed during the dark ages...
Since it was a prayer book, nobody dared, and now we have the data.
Every action has consequences, and some of them are inconcieveable
rajmohan_h@yahoo.com
I would say to put any Anti-Religious Zealotry aside, and think about it this way. How many files have you deleted from your hard-drive that perhaps in a couple hundred years would allow archeologist to get better insight on your generation, or the previous ones. Parchment was not as cheap as it was today. It took considerable amount of work just to create it, and Rubbing out the Old stuff for the New stuff seems like best situation, for the times. This period was well in the dark ages, saving old stuff wasn't the goal or even seemed that valuable. And besides as far as most were concerned at the time, this is old stuff from a dead civilization, make room for our new more modern method.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I can't wait to see what the first, original layer of Archimedes' Palimpsest, the one Archimedes erased for blanks, contained. Maybe we'll have to backdate some of that "Archimedean" knowledge to someone else.
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make install -not war
Mob of Jews kills Christians. Mob of Christians get angry, seek revenge, kill Christians and burn some stuff. That's hardly a matter of being for or against learning and science. It was opposing tribes rioting against each other. Reminds me very much of Northern Ireland, where the problems are really two cultures clashing, rather than two religions.
I'm sure that members of the church did at times have in influence on the decline of the Roman Empire, something I never claimed to ignore, but as the church and state become intermeshed, that brought corruption, so it is more an illustration of the problems of church getting mixed up, rather than a proof of Christianity being anti-knowledge. i think that that the way the church got so involved with the state is a travesty and thoroughly unbiblical. Constantine made a lot of mistakes in that regard.
The church of Rome actually had very little influence on many areas of Christianity e.g. Celtic Christians and Eastern Orthodox during this time, so it's also rather unjust to tar all of Christianity with the same brush, especially given that the Protestant view is that the Roman church became increasingly corrupt during this time, requiring the Reformation. Christians involved with the Reformation had a very high of science and knowledge, seeing it as the Christian's duty to investigate God's creation, just as many monks had previously seen it as their duty to record history, providing us with a great part of the little history we have from the 'Dark Ages.' Incidentally, this view was carried on into latter centuries and well embodied by such scientists as Faraday and Maxwell, who were very passionate about science, but also staunchly evangelical Christians.
I suggest you take a look at the Wikipedia article on the Dark ages to see some of the misconceptions and biases that people have concerning the term and the time.
Yes - read the Scholarship section on the project web page. For example, http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org/scholarship_ne tz2.html which shows that Archimedes knew about Infinity and used it in a proof. The Greeks were fascinated by large numbers - questions like "can you count the number of grains of sand on all the beaches of the world?" - but it was thought they did not have the concept of actual infinity. The palimpsest shows that this was known some 2000 years ago, then forgotten for centuries.
Here you go, here's a rough, almost meaningless translation of a few lines of one of the transcripts [no, I'm not kidding you; I've taken this from the second directory in the DATA section of the website]; it's almost meaningless because I simply never understood half of what Archimedes was writing (never was good with geometry):
as (then) [Nu] of a cone [Kappa][Theta] where from the height of [Nu] of the cone (thus) the circle [Nu] to the diameter around the circle [Beta][Zeta] is then equal to this same cone [Nu] the section [Beta][Theta][Zeta][Alpha] to [Beta][Theta][Zeta][Kappa] in a figure holding one chous, the cone which, having a basis about the circle [Beta][Zeta], so a height where the whole [Epsilon][Theta] where the cut [Alpha][Beta][Zeta] of the sphere is equal to the cone [Beta][Zeta] ...
If you actually understand geometry, or even better, Greek geometrical terminology, which is bloody esoteric, you might be able to rework this into something that means something to you, but frankly, it's just gobbledygook to me.
No, I'm not pulling your leg. The translation sucks, and I'm missing some of the idiomatic uses of common Greek words in geometrical texts, but that's a genuine translation of a genuine excerpt from the Archimedes palimpsest.
This is from an assyrian stone tablet, circa 2800 bc... Puts things in perspective, doncha think ?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
> as (then) [Nu] of a cone [Kappa][Theta] where from the height of [Nu] of the cone (thus) the circle [Nu] to the diameter around the circle [Beta][Zeta]...
Thanks for hunting that down- I think that's great! I just wish they would work that fragment into the introductory section of the website- Anyone who's ever had geometry in high school can gleem all kinds of useful things about this fragment:
1. It shows without much doubt to anyone that they have achieved success, by a direct example.
2. The text they found really does cover meaty (by ancient greek standards) mathematical concepts- It's not just Archimedes talking about something that that he was less of an authority in and therefore potentially less interesting (like whether god is a "trinity" or a "quadrinity" or some other equivalently esoteric thing ancient scientists often worried about)
3. They were able to read enough info to deduce entire sentences, not just words
4. Since similar things (circles, cones) are discussed in school to this day, it shows a seemingly direct link between modern mathematics and Archimedal mathematics
5. Archimedes clearly thought about some incredibly abstract things- His far more well known law of bouyancy wasn't just a lucky accident.
I think you're missing the point. We don't NEED the writings now. We already understand calculus. It was needed in Archimedes times. It's because of those ignorant monks who didn't care for "worldly knowledge" and instead preffered to write the same old love letters to invisible men that mathematics was set back 2000 years.
That has to be the single dumbest thing I've ever read. Do they even teach history any more?
The Western Roman Empire fell for a number of reasons. There was a decline in population from a variety of factors (notably disease), the Capital moved to Constantinople, and the economy couldn't therefor support the number of legions to keep the Germanic tribes out of the frontier anymore so they started letting folks through and even recruiting them to fill out the legions. So now you had non-Romans who were Roman-trained inside the Western Empire's borders, and they thought, "Hey, let's take over." And they did.
The Eastern Empire, continued right up until the sacking of Constantinople by the Islamic Conquest (and, sadly, not without some really stupid moves on the part of "Crusaders" sacking the dang city from behind, morons). Religion was firmly entrenched in that society - which seemed to do just fine for a number of years.
Oh, also look up "Calvinism" and you'll find that free will isn't as deeply ingrained into Judeo-Christian mythology as you'd like to think.