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Mozilla Calls on User Community Today for Testing

lisah writes "As Mozilla prepares to release updates for its calendar applications Sunbird and Lightning, project developers are calling on the user community to participate in the final stages of testing. The Mozilla Calendar Team has proclaimed today as Test Case Writing Day and users worldwide are encouraged to participate. Mozilla developer Clint Talbert tells NewsForge that today's event is a pre-cursor to the Calendar Test Day Mozilla will hold later this month prior to the final release of version 0.3."

28 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. Profit! by andrewman327 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From TFA: "There will be a reward for the two people who write the most test cases. They will each receive a $25 gift certificate to the mozilla store.


    I like the idea of having the users contribute like this. Something that I really like about Mozilla is the fact that its users are given a big voice. Not all OSS asks for so much input from non-coding users. I always look forward to new releases, too, as the organization seems to wait to release instead of rushing crap.

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    1. Re:Profit! by LS · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As someone who's worked as a quality engineer for years, a good QA engineer gets paid something close to a good software engineer. I currently work as a software engineer, and I can honestly say that in some ways testing software is much more difficult than writing it. With the amount of money the Mozilla foundation brings in, putting aside a microscopic $50 as a prize for quality assurance is a bit of a joke. How about something a little more meaty guys?

      --
      There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    2. Re:Profit! by andrewman327 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you are missing the whole point of F/OSS. The prize is buried on the website and is not the reason that people want to do this.

      --
      Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
    3. Re:Profit! by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have no mod points today, but MS does open betas and release candidiates too. I still remember, in fact, when the "final" release candidate for Windows98 worked perfectly with my friend's hardware, then the retail version trashed the contents of his hard drive every time he tried to install it.

      QED. Do I get a cookie?

  2. Re-neter all your dates again, I suppose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know it's only alpha so I shouldn't complain, but every time they release a new version, I have to enter all my dates again because they've changed the storage format again. I don't suppose this time will be any diferent. I've got a lot of history that I don't want to lose. I think I'll stick with v2 until they relese 1.0.

    1. Re:Re-neter all your dates again, I suppose by yaphadam097 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've had the same problem, which is why I started using Yahoo calendar and now Google calendar instead. Still, I am hopeful that the final release will meet my needs better than these do (Though the advantage of having a calendar available on any browser is significant.)

  3. Lots of Calendar news lately by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lightning supports CalDAV for sharing calendar information. Apple announced yesterday that Leopard iCal Server and the iCal application will both talk CalDAV, they released the server at http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/collaboration. Bedework is making a lot of progress as an institutional calendar server.

    Oracle has a CalDAV stack. IBM has some stuff in the works as well.

    It looks like exchange will have a fight on its hands very soon.

    I've been helping on a CalDAV plugin for Outlook called Open Connector, which allows Outlook to take to CalDAV servers like Apple's and Bedework. We always need help, if you have a lot of experience developing COM apps in C++, come help out.

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    1. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would guess that "CalDAV" is shorthand for "WebDAV serving iCal-format files."

      Does this Mozilla software already talk to WebDAV calendar stores - can it read current Apple iCal calendars published via WebDAV?

      Yes

      By the way, iCal isn't an Apple format; although it was invented there, it's been submitted as a standard IIRC.

      --

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    2. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by Albanach · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've been using the Outlook 2003 remote calendars plugin which is effective in allowing you to share your calendar on Outlook with Thunderbird / Evolution etc.

    3. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by laffer1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple's calendaring server site says that you must have iCal from 10.5 seed to use it. I'm guessing there is something different with caldav vs the old system of just throwing up ical files via webdav.

    4. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 4, Informative

      By the way, iCal isn't an Apple format; although it was invented there, it's been submitted as a standard IIRC.

      I don't think so. iCal, ie. iCalendar is RFC 2445. Microsoft and Lotus employees are listed as principals on that one. That became a standard in '98.

      What Apple did, unfortunately, is choose the iCal name for their application. A name most people used to refer to the files conforming to RFC 2445 and others.

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    5. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Will Open Connector allow for synchronisation as well or will it only provide import/export?

      It does allow you to view/modify events on a CalDAV server in Outlook as if it were on an Exchange server.

      i.e. can I synchronise my work calender (which uses Outlook/Exchange) to a second server and sync that one with my own PC/phone/PDA/whatever?

      That's the plan, though things are buggy still. We haven't completed sharing, though individual calendars work.

      The connector is different from import/export filters. It's replaces Outlook's local message store and transport storage layers entirely with its own implementation that supports CalDAV. This is basically the approach Lotus, etc. take to provide Outlook access to their servers.

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    6. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm guessing there is something different with caldav vs the old system of just throwing up ical files via webdav.

      Yes. The old system wasn't really a standard. Eg. How can the client figure out your free/busy time? Or how should the files be name? etc.

      CalDAV specifies storage, and also the reporting of the stored calendar data. So the calendar client can ask 'What events happen between th 10th and 14th?' or a query for appointments in the month of June, etc. without downloading an entire folder of *.ics files.

      The situation is much improved.

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    7. Re:Lots of Calendar news lately by n4t3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't it more unfortunate that it took Microsoft almost 10 years (Outlook 2007) to fully support that standard, when as you correctly point out a Microsoft employee is listed as one of it's principal creators?

  4. Just out of interest... by Yuioup · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is Mozilla going to incorporate automated testing into the project?

    Y

  5. Excellent testing model by jhfry · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who better to test something then those who will use it. Now of course there are betas and automatic reporting that also help... but there is nothing like the developers asking their users for feedback in a very humble way like this.

    It's their way of saying, our software is probably full of holes but with your help we can make it better.

    MS tried that with XP and their error reporting feature. From what I understand, their success was amazing with that tool... however I never felt someone say that they felt appreciated for submiting their error reports.

    Gotta love companies who realize that it's the users not the software that make their product great. Give users what they want, make them feel like they are appreciated, and most of all respect them; keys to any truely great software (or any other product for that matter). Now if only we could get the RIAA and the rest of the media companies bent on making fair use mean fairly usable to understand what customers want.

    --
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  6. Where do I sign up... by XanC · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...to test Firefox for massive memory leaks and general instability on Linux?

    1. Re:Where do I sign up... by Talchas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm, memory leakiness yes, but I've never had instability under Linux except occasionally with excessive Flash (which is easily fixed by using one of the click-to-play extensions).

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  7. My test case... by Duncan3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Use and more specificly write _valid_ RFC 2445 compliant (aka iCal) files. Last I checked, Sunbird kinda made up it's own almost-close format, making it's own little walled garden.

    And didn't they ditch iCal support in .3 in favor of their own custom format someone decided was cooler? Some of us actually use and crosslink the files from our calendar program, phpicalendar, email etc, and this was a rather fatal mistake by the Mozillians that made it useless.

    Good thing every other mail/calendaring program on the planet now supports the format, correctly usually, and stores things in it. I'm afraid in this case the open source solution is light years behind Apple (no surprise) and even Microsoft (they arent even trying).

    --
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    1. Re:My test case... by littlematt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Sunbird and Lightning never ditched the iCal support (.ics files) in favor of a custom format.
      True. Go to File > Export... and look! It's trying to save as an .ics file!

      > What they did, was to change the internal storage format from .ics to a SQLite...database...for performance reasons...
      Performance wasn't the only reason for the switch. In fact, in some particular situations, the SQLite backend is actually slower than 0.2's .ics backend. However when manipulating files with hundreds or thousands of events, SQLite beats the pants off of .ics. In addition, we wanted to be able to support calendar stores and servers (such as CalDAV and WCAP) that have features which can't necessarily be expressed in .ics (at least without doing a lot of ugly X-MOZ-WHIZBANGFEATURE stuff), and by using SQLite we are free to do that.

      -lilmatt

  8. Not so interested by bogie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IMHO the ship has passed and everyone who was interested in a calendaring solution from Mozilla moved on to something else years ago because they got tired of waiting. The project has just sat for too long without gaining any traction. Vista's calendar will end up taking over for Windows users and I don't see many Ical users jumping ship. Of course *nix users have several of these programs to choose from. Business users will continue to stick with Outlook. I've been a Moz booster for many years now but I simply just can't get excited about this project.

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    1. Re:Not so interested by SilentTristero · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > Business users will continue to stick with Outlook

      Don't be so sure. We're a small mostly-Windows shop (Win/Linux/Mac for developers, Windows for the admin/sales/mktg folks) and we have no M$ servers. Linux-based mail/dns/fileserver infrastructure. Everyone uses Tbird/Ffox, no IE. Outlook doesn't really play well into that kind of environment; so we REALLY need shareable calendars. Right now Chandler & Sunbird aren't far enough along for real business use (at least not a couple of months ago); even event notification was unreliable in Sunbird. iCal is OK but Mac-only. Vista for us is a far-off upgrade.

      So at least some of us are very interested in recent Chandler and Sunbird progress.

  9. I am skeptical... by rjstegbauer · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Something tells me that users should not be writing test cases.

    I know I don't want my users doing that for my code.

    Besides, whatever happened to "Test First"?

    Enjoy, Randy.

    1. Re:I am skeptical... by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Something tells me that users should not be writing test cases.

      Yeah, you're right. Those users, they don't know how the application should be used.

  10. Not me... by NineNine · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Last time I tried a Sunbird supposedly beta release, it was so buggy that is just wasn't useable (at all). It would lose data, scramble it around, crash randomly, use 100% of my processor, etc. I was permanently scared away from Sunbird if that's what they called a beta. I would've loved to use Sunbird, but that was a long time ago, and we've since moved onto Outlook because we 1. were tired of waiting and 2. didn't have anything remotely useable in the meantime.

  11. build system by Hard_Code · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would like to get involved with Mozilla/Firefox and in a couple of cases have earnestly tried, checking out the gigantic repository, and reading up on XPCOM and trying out samples, but the checkout/build procedure is just so teeth gnashingly horrendous, I eventually just run away screaming. Some goes for OpenOffice.

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  12. Re:Hey firefox developers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    (types about:plugins in Firefox)

    Shockwave Flash 8.0 r22
    Adobe Acrobat Plug-In Version 7.00 for Netscape

    Works for me, sounds like your chair-to-keyboard interface is broken.

  13. Re:Google Calendar by generic-man · · Score: 3, Funny

    This just in: synchronizing a beta web service and an alpha calendaring program causes problems.

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