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EBay Sellers Seek Management Change

BlueCup writes to tell us that even though some seem willing to let eBay's Chief Executive Meg Whitman slide on recent problems, many eBay sellers are calling for a change. From the article: "'EBay's core (auction) performance is suffering tremendously,' says Steve Grossberg, a longtime videogame seller on eBay. He says he now lists an item four times on average in order to sell it, up from two listings two years ago. Adds Andy Mowery, an eBay seller of home and garden gear: 'It is time for new leadership at eBay.'"

24 of 386 comments (clear)

  1. While I agree, it's for other reasons. by Pitr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ebay's management is in serious need of a kick in the pants. More for customer service, support, and the way it deals with fraud (which is all part of the same thing really).

    Just because it's more difficult to sell on Ebay does NOT mean the problem is management, it means there's more traffic (buyers and sellers), so you have more competition. It may take twice as long to sell a game as 2 years ago, but I'm willing to bet there's well more than twice as many video games on Ebay now, as there were then.

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    --Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
    1. Re:While I agree, it's for other reasons. by DoorFrame · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are contending that there are twice as many sellers but the same number of buyers? That doesn't seem likely.

    2. Re:While I agree, it's for other reasons. by Alioth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why ever not? It's clear that supply has increased significantly, but demand hasn't kept pace.

      That's how a market works - the fact that sellers need to list something multiple times now on average is a bloody good signal that there's massive oversupply in that market, and the seller should try flogging something else. It's how a market works, and sellers kvetching about it won't change the fact that there's massive oversupply.

    3. Re:While I agree, it's for other reasons. by Pollardito · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it could easily be the case that high-volume sellers have moved onto EBay where it was mostly small inventory sellers before. each high-volume seller offsets lots of new buyers, so even if the number of new buyers was a lot larger than the number of new sellers it might be becoming a tougher market to sell in.

    4. Re:While I agree, it's for other reasons. by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the fact that sellers need to list something multiple times now on average is a bloody good signal that there's massive oversupply in that market

      or their asking price is simply too high based on simple supply/demand. Capitalism works and is quite simple: If supply rises higher than demand, the price will go down or you won't sell anything.

      After all, isn't that why people BUY on ebay, to save money? The sheer volume of people who are trying to sell new goods for the exact same price (or higher) than I can buy on NewEgg or other sites is amazing. Same for used goods, where sellers are reserving the price at 80%-90% of new price. The market is simply catching up and normalizing.

      We have been selling on ebay since 1998, and have seen and dealt with all the problems, fixes, etc. in real time, but when it comes right down to it: If you have a widget for sale, don't expect to get more for the widget than the current market value. Management can't do anything about market forces, they can only make sure the site always works, is easy to use, and everyone has a fair shake at displaying their wares.

      Getting pissed because a game that sells for $10 at EB will only bring $10 on ebay is rather silly.

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    5. Re:While I agree, it's for other reasons. by Pharmboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I tire quickly of paging through 200 items for the 2 or 3 listings that I'm looking for.

      Exactly! Ebay IS allowing people to put garbage in catagories it doesn't belong. If I am looking for engine parts, I don't need to see auctions for antique books and memorabilia that is remotely connected to the brand of car that I am trying to find parts for. This is one area I agree that ebay has fallen down, by diluting their catagories so that it is harder to find what you are actually looking for.

      Another example is the deception in the title. Try seaching for a "Fender Telecaster" and see how many auctions you get with the phrase "not Fender" or "like Fender" in the topic, where the guitar is obviously NOT a Fender, and the topic is simply misleading to get more traffic. This should be made against the rules, with a penalty. You might find 200 items, and over half are NOT "Fender Telecaster" related on any given day. Or someone selling stick-pins that "look" like Fender guitars (see above paragraph...)

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      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  2. If ebay wants me back as a buyer by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are going to have to get rid of fraudelent auctions. The last time I bought anything off ebay was a year ago, and the only reason I did that is because it was an uncommon item(English-Chinese electronic dictionary) that is hard to find elsewhere. If I search for anything that isn't eclectic, at least half of the items are fraud, if not more. I have to do a lot of slogging through(usually by sorting by highest price first and then trying to find the items I want) just to get to legit auctions. No, I don't want a "free xbox 360, powerbook and more!!!!!!!!!!" which just turns into a bid for "information that is 110% legit on how to find free items online!". I end up having to do a lot of work just to find the item I want. If you can't be bothered to get rid of fraudelent auctions, then I can't be bothered to bid.

    1. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by dfn_deux · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Ebay needs a 'list auctions by seller rating' or some such.
      This is a terrible idea. The core seller rating and reputation system of ebay is greatly flawed. Sellers will not give buyers a positive feedback until after they themselves have received one, seems in cases where the purchaser uses paypal to complete the transaction that ebay should automatically positive feedback/reputation points as they have successfully confirmed that the buyers has fulfilled their part of the transaction. Instead sellers hold the positive feedback out as a carrot to buyers whom are forced to leave positive or no feedback in order to protect their own rating. In the end you get sellers with artificially high feedback scores.

      Furthermore ebay gives no additional weight to people who complete high dollar transactions with positive feedback; such that a seller can do 1000 transactions for a dollar each and have a crazy high rating for when they decide to run a scam and screw someone out of several grand for a car or a piece of real estate.

      A serious revamping of ebay is needed to increase buyer seller relations. My first recommendation would be to introduce a meta-moderation and abitration system whereby in cases of transactions gone bad both sides would have an opportunity to write a short summary of their view of the events (maybe 500 words or so) and then those stories would be available to be viewed side by side by random third parties who could declare fault and/or present an abitration suggestion which could then be presented back to the original parties, if the parties are able to resolve their issues through the arbitration suggestion the suggesting party might be given some additional positive feedback... In this way there is a benefit to all involved parties to act above board and behave responsibly, and even in cases which do not end with positive feedback the damaging effect of wrongly issued negative feedback could be minimized.

      any how that's just my .02 I suppose their are others out there with more/better suggestions. In the meantime I'll stick to my mix of Brick & Mortar/Craigslist/Amazon shopping and only veer to ebay for items for which I have historically experienced little drama, such as used car parts with significant value and very low price (read 1972 pinto hatchback hubcaps)...

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    2. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by Sircus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The feedback system is definitely flawed. My solution to this: neither side sees the other side's feedback until both sides have left feedback. Nobody will currently leave negative feedback for a seller because the seller will then leave negative feedback for them. If the seller doesn't see what you've left before he leaves his feedback, a more honest feedback climate should prevail.

      One potential disadvantage I could see to this system: sellers might find it convenient not to leave feedback if they fear that the buyer's feedback could be negative. This could easily be worked around by automatically turning "no feedback left by seller within 30 days" into "seller left positive feedback", with no comment (and vice-versa if the buyer's not left feedback).

      A system for both sides to leave their view of a failed transaction might also be useful.

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    3. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Absolutely, a blind system is better than my idea and eBay's current system.

      They do need a Google pagerank-ish weighting system of feedback value -- a $1,000 purchase from a guy who has been on eBay 5 years is worth more than a thousand purchases of sharpie markers from a brand new seller.

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      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    4. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're correct on both counts!

      A blind feedback system would be vastly preferable to both the current one and my suggestion of seller-first feedback. I'd even heard the blind system suggested before and somehow forgot!

      And yes, there should be some account of monetary value and buyer's reputation when a seller gets a feedback score. I've sold several thousand dollars of expensive electronics and photo gear on eBay to other eBayers who've been there for years, yet have a feedback rating in the double-digits. Scammers can come on with new accounts and sell bubble gum to each other for high feedback in a single day. Similarly, the buyer should get more credit for a good high-value transaction with a longtime seller.

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      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    5. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by Eivind · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Furthermore, the most prominently displayed number on Ebay is the sellers "score", which is simply the number of different people who gave a positive feedback, minus the number of different people who left a negative feedback.

      This tracks activity, not customer-satisfaction. Who'd you rather buy from, a seller with 1000 transactions, all with positive feedback, or a seller with 2000 transactions, 1600 of them with positive feedback, and 300 of them with negative ?

      Thougth so !

      Guess which of the two sellers will have the highest number attached to their name, get the nicest "star" etc ? Why, the ony lining Ebays pockets the most naturally ! Which would be the one with most transactions, not the one with highest customer-satisfaction.

      Some simple improvements:

      • Give stars etc based on *percentage* of positive reviews rather than number of reviews.
      • Make feedback invisible for everyone until both parts have given feedback (or until the time-limit for doing so, a month or whatever is past) This prevents retaliation against honest customers in the form of negative feedback.
      • Let us know how many % of all transactions the seller receives and gives feedback. (A seller that consequently gives and receives feedback, with a high score, is preferable to one that tries to discourage feedback)
      • weight the feedback by moneyvalue of transaction. A person who has sold 98 $10 items with positive feedback, and 2 $1000 items with negative feedback should not be listed as 98% positive. By money-value he is 33% positive.
      • Give people the possibility of rating auctions entered by the seller. Random people rating random auctions, similar to slashdots meta-moderation-system would work best. (it'd prevent people from getting sockpuppets and using those for rating their own auctions up) Make it possible to sort search-results and listings by sellers average auction-rating, or by auction-rating.
      • Actually police the categories. Delete auctions, and warn sellers, that improperly spam obviously wrong categories. Cancel their accounts if they repeat the behaviour.
    6. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by Andrewkov · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're assuming that E-Bay wants to to fix this .. I tend to think that the rules favour sellers by design, since they are the ones paying E-Bay for the auctions.

    7. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by FireFury03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      seems in cases where the purchaser uses paypal to complete the transaction that ebay should automatically positive feedback/reputation points as they have successfully confirmed that the buyers has fulfilled their part of the transaction.

      This is a terrible idea - there are many cases where _after_ the buyer has paid they cause trouble. For example, on one of my auctions I clearly stated that if you paid by cheque I wouldn't dispatch the goods until _after_ the cheque had cleared. The buyer posted me a cheque and then left negative feedback against me just 2 days after the cheque had arrived because they hadn't received the item yet.

      I mean I don't know where to start:
      1. they ignored the conditions stated in the auction for paying by cheque (they could've used paypal and avoided the problem)
      2. they didn't give it enough time for the item to make it through the post even if I'd sent it as soon as I received the cheque
      3. they didn't even bother to contact me to discuss the "problem" before dropping negative feedback on my account.

      In this case I would've been very annoyed if the system had forced me to leave positive feedback for a buyer who caused nothing but trouble after "fullfilling their part of the transaction".

      FWIW, I think feedback should be left by the buyer before the seller - that way by leaving positive feedback the buyer has confirmed that they have received the item with no problems. If there is a problem then it can be resolved before either party has left feedback. Remember that negative feedback should be fairly rare for legitimate sellers and noone should be leaving negative feedback without first trying to resolve the problem. (Maybe it would be worth publishing the communications that occurred between the two parties when leaving negative feedback so people can read the whole story and make their own minds up who was responsible for the bad transaction).

    8. Re:If ebay wants me back as a buyer by aussersterne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am an eBay seller, and I can tell you as someone who used to work at eBay that this would drive sellers off of eBay. There are an awful lot of buyers (maybe 20% of them) that hold THEIR feedback back until sellers give them perks, realizing that a seller who has 2,000 feedbacks that are 100% positive is going to go to great lengths to protect that. They demand free accessories, issue credit card chargebacks after receiving the item, demand that sellers accept a return (after they've swapped half the parts out to fix their own possessions and send you back a non-working item that has clearly been tampered with), claim that the $1,000 digital camera they bought doesn't work and then demand a replacement--while REFUSING to return the original "broken" one... They sue, launch Internet campaigns against specific sellers or against eBay, and all because they didn't get something for nothing.

      There are even cases in which after failing to get free item(s) by demanding "no ship replacements" or other perks, such buyers have pulled the seller's contact information and proceeded to stalk them, traveling several states in order to be threatening. If seller's were to lose their ability to even leave a negative about such people once they'd made the initial payment, eBay would lost most of its major sellers who, let's not forget, actually pay eBay's bills.

      Fraud is rampant on both sides, and nothing short of government regulation limiting just who is allowed to buy and sell in a society, period, is going to stop it. eBay doesn't do themselves any favors when they screw legitimate buyers or sellers, but to assume that sellers are responsible for all the fraud is to make a very incorrect assumption.

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      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  3. What ebay needs. by Frogbert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What ebay needs is for people to stop selling stuff on it as if it was their own store. I go to ebay to pick up a bargain not to pay RRP for something I could get from the store for the same price. ebay needs to get back to what it used to be, a place to pick up rare items for a premium or second hand items for cheap.

    Try searching for mobile phones on ebay, it's become a joke. There are people trying to sell new phones with plans included. Why bother, there is a shop near by that can do that and not charge me for postage.

    Don't even get me started on items that are clearly in the wrong category. I don't want to sift through 18 pages of leather cases for PDA's before I find the cheapest listed actual PDA.

    1. Re:What ebay needs. by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That last bit is what really annoys me. Ebay needs to introduce a policy that gets people banned for listing in the wrong category twice.

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  4. Re:The biggest problem with eBay is this: by dbc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Damn straight. I don't frequent E-Bay anymore. Too hard to find what I want. Way too much fraud. The feedback system is a joke.

    E-Bay has had this crazy idea that their customer is the seller. Well, their direct customer is the seller, but the seller's customer is the buyer, so E-Bay needs to start focusing on making buyers happy. If the buyer is not happy, the buyer will not come back. The whole system then colapses in a smoldering heap.

    E-Bay keeps trying to police the buyers, and gives the sellers a free pass when ever they can. Thus, they have created the first planet-wide den of theives.

    It's pretty damn simple. Follow the money. The buyers are the only ones feeding money into the system. How can E-Bay be so blind to that?

    My formula for turning E-Bay around:
    1. Stop treating buyers like thieves, treat them like valued customers.
    2. Stop treating sellers like customers, treat them like sub-contract employees.

  5. Yes, look at auctions by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously seller growth has outpaced buyer growth. I've seen that in some items I sell as well.

    Furthermore there are other alternatives to eBay now, especially for video games. When they guy started on eBay I'll bet a lot of people were not picking up used games at the EB, since they didn't stock them as they do today. eBay made that happen.

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    1. Re:Yes, look at auctions by saskboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those are classic examples of what's wrong with eBay. I saw those things dozens of times in my years on the support forums. It's insanely frustrating how eBay treats loyal sellers. Sellers are their only income [other than PayPal etc] so it's not surprising they are in the toilet when they lost their customers [since eBay customers are not eBay's customers, they are the seller's].

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  6. Re:The biggest problem with eBay is this: by reflector · · Score: 3, Insightful

    these fee-circumventing, high-shipping auctions. It's strange.

    it's not strange at all, ebay themselves created the situation, by trying to squeeze every penny they can from sellers, and by only charging the sale cost, not the shipping fee.

    consider, if ebay final value fee is 5% (for the sake of argument), then would you rather have a seller charge $0.01 and $10 shipping, for a total of $10.01? or charge $10.50 for the item and $0.01 shipping, for a total of $10.51?

    the seller makes the same amount of money in both cases, but i would guess (call it a hunch) that buyers would prefer to pay $10.01 rather than $10.51.

    the seller who moves as much of the cost over to the shipping side as possible, is able to sell the item for the lowest total price.

    sadly, many ebayers are not very bright and dont understand this basic concept.

  7. Yeah, Feedback by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't listen to parent! Parent has bad ratings and doesn't pay for auctions! Seller beware!
    Grandparent is A+++++ first poster. Will recommend to all. Will read grandparent's post again

    Is there anyone who think eBay's feedback system is truly useful or even fair? I get slammed when people don't pay and think they are funny. People ignore terms of auctions and think I'm unprofessional for not bending over backward. People don't ship my stuff because they found out the postage is way higher than they thought and decide to just keep my money. It's a sin how bad it is.

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  8. Re:Prices! by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Insightful
    On the other hand, I haven't had any problem selling stuff on eBay, because I pick a reasonable starting price and charge fair shipping rates.
    Yeah, people don't understand ebay. You can usually make more money starting an item off at $1.00 with no reserve. The possibility of a "great deal" sucks people in. They'll end up paying $75 for an item because they're determined to get it, while a similar item starting at $65 won't get a single bid! That and, as you say, charging fair rates on shipping helps a lot. Nothing bugs people like $35 shipping on an item that comes in a $4.85 flat-rate USPS box.
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  9. Put it up for a penny by vitaflo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "He says he now lists an item four times on average in order to sell it, up from two listings two years ago."

    Here's a tip, set the auction price at $0.01 to start, and let people bid it up to what *they* think it's currently worth. You'll sell your items the *first* time.