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Peter Molyneux Talks Next-Gen Combat and Wii
An anonymous reader writes "Speaking at the Games Convention Developer Conference in Leipzig, Peter Molyneux gave attendees a sense of what he believes the future of combat in games will be like, some of which he is trying to get his team to include in Fable 2. He also showed videos of some prototypes based on his concepts. Later in his presentation, he responded to a user's question about Nintendo's Wii, saying that he's not sold on motion-sensing controllers."
Let's not forget who owns his studio. Methinks he may not be speaking freely.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
...all over Molyneux studios owner.
What this guy thinks? I'd rather hear from the designers of WOW or Battlefield 2, two games that are actually successful, popular and not over-hyped. This guy can only coast on populus for so long.
Bushido Blade, now there was a fighting game with "Sharp" weapons: one hit kills, perry and dodges, feints, etc.
The environment wasn't very interactive, but it was also a PS1 game.
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I'm not gonna touch the obvious joke about pr0n here.
But if I've learned anything while playing videogames with friends over the decades, it's that people often look like idiots while playing, and it doesn't lessen their enjoyment.
And if I've learned anything about repetitive physical exercise, it's that the more often you do it, the less tiring it becomes... you know, cardiovascular and muscular conditioning?
Molyneaux works for MS. And while some of his past work has been great, I think he's a bit ff-key and I of course, as others have pointed out, have to question his motives.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
To demonstrate these ideas, Molyneux showed off two test sequences -- one on a staircase and one in a bar. Though these featured characters from Fable, Molyneux insists this was just done to save time and these are not tests for Fable 2.
Later,
Towards the end of Molyneux's talk, he made it clear that this panel was not a thinly veiled way of promoting the combat in one of his company's upcoming games, though these are naturally ideas he and his team are considering. "A lot of what I've talked about here will never make it into any game, but maybe some of it will," he said. We expect to see Fable 2 at Microsoft's X06 event next month, and we'll be on the lookout to see how much, if any, of the ideas in today's talk make it into that game.
It doesn't sound to me like he's saying anything about what is going into Fable 2. Rather, the author seems to be trying to mention Fable 2 as much as he can, despite the panel not having any information at all about the game. This was simply a talk from Molyneux about what would be cool to incorporate into a game, not what is feasible or what will go into any games he might be designing.
Seriously, who cares what he has to say about motion-sensing controls? Aside from the fact that MS writes his checks and he is obviously out of shape, I have a hard time caring what he thinks.
Direct quotes attributed to Mr Molyneux.
"I realized, when I looked at myself in the mirror, I actually looked really stupid."
I care more about how I appear to others when playing a game than anything such as, ohh I don't know how much enjoyment that game is bringing.
Molyneux continued, concerned with the controls causing fatigue, "Even with nothing in my hand, I get tired very, very quickly."
I'm extremely out of shape.
He points at the way the Nintendo DS uses the stylus: "What I've found really fascinating is not using it to scribble with, but using it in a very clever, innovational way."
But I don't get tired if I'm using a Nintendo DS two handed. Only that thingie on the system that's going to completly obliterate the competition made by the company who isn't the one who owns my company.
I think Mr Molyneux needs to stop talking so much and go back to making the kick ass type of games I remember and love. Populous, Magic Carpet, Hi-Octane, Dungeon keeper! His last few games he's talked up so much that by the time they come out they can't help but not reach our expectations. I'm looking dead at you Black & White series and Fable.
If I believed for a moment that the enviroment might be fully usable as shown, then this might at least make it to "interesting". But historically speaking, there will only be a set of motions that are "acceptable" and a whole series of other things the game won't understand, and setting up an environment won't be a matter of putting a table here and four chairs there, but fully specifying everything the player can do, which makes for a smaller environment because the developers have to do a lot of work per area.
I base this on history: The canonical example in my mind is the megazoom in Black and White from an apple with a worm in it out to the full island view. Cute, but in-game, there was nothing else with the level of detail of that worm, other than that apple. The video, hyped as a promise of things to come, was actually the complete set of cool actions you could take. Molyneux seems to keep giving us that.
Honestly, combat is the one thing that modern action-based video games do tolerably well at; it's the other aspects of the game I'd like to see improved first. (Note that I really do mean "tolerably well"; it's not perfect, but the fact that it has been the primary focus of gaming for nigh unto these many years shows, and the near-complete lack of attention paid to anything else but graphics also shows.)
Mmm, I would say he'd embrace the motion controller, since the mouse-gesture-thingy in Black and WHite just didn't work properly.
"I realized, when I looked at myself in the mirror, I actually looked really stupid." - Peter Molyneux
Don't you just love quotes taken out of context?
The Wii controller does have a big advantage in that it allows for motion oriented gaming that no other console provides (I don't consider the PS3 controller to be in the same league).
The problem for the console is that it may be difficult to include the Wii in multi-platform game releases. Development costs will have increased exponentially and many developers will want to have cross platform titles to cut costs.
I'm not sure how many people are going to get more than one console. A lot of people just want one console. The Wii will be very cheap (as low as $170 at launch), but a lot of people will view that as 3 games they could have bought for their other system. Also being cheap doesn't guarantee a console's success, the Gamecube was much cheaper than the PS2 and was more powerful.
I seem to recall Molyneux being one of the first to PRAISE the Wii controller, though, as seen here: http://www.planetgamecube.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=10 742
Seems rather strange that he'd do a 180. Maybe it's the money-hat effect.
I havent seen much innovation come to games in a long while. For the past 5-10 years all I have seen in games is increased graphics quality, which is *supposed* to improve realism, without increased content or gameplay. What happened to Alpha Centauri, Fallout, Tribes, Carmageddon, Exile, Zork, etc etc. Their descendants are utterly uninteresting. Prerendering ultrahigh pixelcount images of fixed paths that people can take, and canning combat such that instaheal potions are the norm have led to a bunch of plastic invincible gods beating on each other with even more outlandish moves for hours. How can you top summoning a platinum dragon to breathe on your opponent? Blowing up the world your opponent is standing on of course!! Developers need to stop and bring things back to the roots. Why not base a game off near-term asteroid exploitation... There's some outlandish stuff you can do with it, but essentially you can deliver on your promises, and since the graphics dont need to be ridiculous you can work on content. How about puzzles, and intrigue? What about a ***REAL*** space flight game, with trajectory plotting, fixed propulsion mass and kinetic interceptors... The Wii is the first good thing to come to gaming in a long while. No emphasis on graphics. No outlandish price. A honest-to-goodness innovation in control (one thing consoles were pitifully lacking in). Screw the graphics, make 100 different actions with that controller perform different moves. Make it sensitive to speed, so you do the moves at different speeds. Make those moves at those speeds count for something. Make spellcasting require you to move that controller in actions. FFS, make things you do count in the game rather than boxing the game so that a reasonable gamer needs to increase the difficulty to Ultra-Hard before he dies once in the campaign. Are we so terrified of alienating kids by killing them repeatedly if they dont adapt to a game that all difficulty and interest has to be bled out? I'm calm... *deep breath*
"Reality continues to ruin my life" - Calvin and Hobbes
Considering the general difference in power between the Wii and the other consoles you won't be able to make direct ports anyway.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
The fighing especially was a horror. Every single weapon handled exactly the same making no difference except for the stats.
So talk all about how fighting in games is going to be in the future but when your own game is a throwback to the 1980 were the only difference between types of blades is their stats then don't expect me too be too impressed.
Yes better fighting would be much appreciated but don't talk about it, do it. He already talked enough about what Fable was going to be like. Why are we still listening to him doing it all over again with Fable 2?
It ain't the first time. Remember Dungeon Keeper? Remember Black & White. Both games wich in their first incarnation were more hype then delivery. Both times admitted by the guy and both times the press drooled all over it and then the sequel only barely admitting that their drooling over the original was a bit too much. I for one am not going to be fooled anymore.
The gaming press just can't be relied upon to be objective when it comes to this guy. With 3 games so far that completly failed to live up to the hype why is this guy still hailed as some kind of gamer god?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Molyneux may not like the Wiimote, but I have to admit I'd rate Miyamoto's opinions on what makes a good game higher than Molyneux's. Especially after Molyneux's more recent, interesting-idea-let-down-by-bugs-and-rushed-execu tion titles.
Totally OT, but I once ran into Peter Molyneux at an E3 party in Atlanta. He was wandering around with a drink in his hand, looking annoyed because nobody wanted to talk to him. Kind of amusing to watch.
You must think in Russian.
I bought B&W and played Fable for a bit. All I can say is that I'm simply not interested anymore. I learned my lesson when I shelled out hard earned money for a poorly implemented concept. He's fairly innovative, but he seems incapable of delivering.
>>Also being cheap doesn't guarantee a console's success, the Gamecube was much cheaper than the PS2 and was more powerful.
You can't really compare the gamecube&ps2 to the wii&ps3. The difference in this generation of consoles is reportedly much larger. If the ps3 is really 4 times as expensive, I know I'll be buying the console for my kids that allows me to get a few games for it as well.
Considering Molyneux's past record in... well... every aspect of game design, let me be the first to say: "Hooray! The Wii will be awesome!"
The best implementations of context-sensitive actions have NEVER been built around the environment, but rather focused on the enemies being fought. Zelda: Wind Waker does this with a big shiny A is for Counter button. Kindom Hearts 2 uses triangle as a more general-purpose "action" button (which is only unique by being separate from the dedicated "Smack things" button) but the majority of battle actions are relative to either the environment, or more usually the enemies, but never really both. Trying to coordinate the environment AND the enemies such that the player can quickly, easily, and regularly put the two together generally means the player has very little freedom to break outside of the "script". Dragon's Lair is the perfect example of this taken to an extreme.
I should add that i got this from the 1up boards.
Before Lionhead was bought by Microsoft
GSUK: There seems to be a backlash mounting against the PlayStation 3, while the Wii seems to be going from strength to strength. How do you think the next-gen console war is going to stack up?
PM: Well, I have been through console wars before, but this one strikes me as particularly interesting. Nintendo has done a great job of convincing us that next gen is about game play rather than high-tech specs. Microsoft has done an incredible job of expanding games online and making them more mass market. Sony, in my view, seems it has been rather more lazy with their message. How all this pans out really depends on one thing and that is the brilliance of the titles that appear on each platform over the next two to three years. Marketing the hardware is nothing compared to the games that run on it, so I expect the system with the greatest games on it to end up on top.
GSUK: Black & White was hugely innovative on its release, and its gestured command system has ironically been matched by the Wii. How important is innovation in interface design to you?
PM: Without any doubt the biggest revolution we will see in games will be to do with what the player holds and how they control a game. I can see the joypad continuing to evolve over the next generation, and this will result in completely new games concepts.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6155521.html/
After Microsoft bought Lionhead
LGC 2006: Molyneux Not Sold on Wii-type Controls
Motion-sensing needs to be used in not-so-obvious ways.
by Luke Smith, 08/22/2006
11 of 15 users recommend this story.
Without specifically taking aim at Nintendo's Wii, designer Peter Molyneux was critical of motion-sensing control schemes at his Combat in Games speech in Leipzig, Germany. Molyneux, excited at first by the prospect of motion-sensing controls mimicking in-game action, has since seemed to sour on the idea: "I realized, when I looked at myself in the mirror, I actually looked really stupid." Molyneux continued, concerned with the controls causing fatigue, "Even with nothing in my hand, I get tired very, very quickly."
Still, the Fable 2 architect isn't dismissing the control scheme: "I think motion-sensitivity is very, very useful, but I think the obvious way of doing it -- unless you're dealing with a 15 to 20 minute experience at most of actually being hugely physical -- is not where the opportunity lies here."
Where does the opportunity rest in motion-sensing controls? Not with obvious implementations, Molyneux maintains. He points at the way the Nintendo DS uses the stylus: "What I've found really fascinating is not using it to scribble with, but using it in a very clever, innovational way." Molyneux suggested that innovation in motion-sensing will have to stretch beyond the replication of sword-swinging motions to break new ground.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153037/
You won't be able to make "direct ports" anyway thanks to the Cell processor and its "revolutionary" structure. If anything, I would think the biggest barrier to porting would be the wiimote and its zany control mechanism, not the graphics.
That said, I really admire Nintendo. They have the guts to create a huge rift in the console world, running right down the "control scheme" line, and trust that they'll end up on the right side. That takes some Colbert-sized balls.