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Google Brazil Pressured to Give Up Names
Kordau writes "Google Brazil is under pressure to release user info from Orkut, relating to a child porn investigation by the Brazilian government. Google Brazil maintains that the info officials want is held on US servers and if they want the info, they should talk to Google USA."
Early this year, Google successfully defended a subpoena from the US Department of Justice to hand over its data in another child porn investigation case.
Brazil is by no means a totalitarian regime but its privacy laws differ from those of the US.
If a Brazilian judge decides that Google must hand over data or pay a hefty fine and shut down its local operations then it sets a dangerous precedent for Google.
I don't think Brazil's legal system is as porn friendly as the US legal system. I bet ya that Google will have to hand over something in this case, or risk being tossed out of Brazil.
Orkut is the most used and popular social networking site in my home country (Brazil), and its popularity can't be explained with words or analogies. (But I will try anyway ;) )
Not having an Orkut account there (among teenagers and young adults from the middle/upper class) is something like not having an IM account or a cellphone, there are more than 5 Million users only from Brasil there, popular enough to force Google to provide a Brazilian Portuguese translation of the site, and to make Google to open a subsidiary there, to take advantage of this unexpected success.
The downside of the site is that brazilian people are very open and trusting, and the "invite-only" aspect of the site incentived from the very beggining the users to put their real data there, like friends, habits, pictures, etc (something similar to MySpace in the U.S.), and that attracted all kind of problems concerning to racism, gang rivaltry and child harassment. Not that it wouldn't happen in the real world anyway (Brasil has a lot of problems), it only moved to a different scenario, the internet.
As it is based on the concept "Communities" (similar to groups on yahoo groups), a lot of groups with dubious/illegal subjects popped up, groups endorsing racism, neo-nazi propaganda, child abuse and other illegal activities, crimes were planned and the results posted and commented in some of thoses threads. When the perpetrator was stupid enough to use his real information (and believe me, it happens every once in a while, stupid punks, althought it would be a violation of their TOS not provide real information heh), the police had no problem to find the criminal and prosecute. But when they hide behind fake profiles, the police has no other option other than subpoena the information to try to find the culprit.
Don't let the hype make you think this is another case of a country trying to "think of the children", Orkut has became a place where crime (or apology to crime, as it is also illegal in Brasil) has became a major problem and police and the justice system are having to deal with it adequatedly. (For the ones who didn't got it, I'm brazilian and English is not my first language, so sorry for any eventual mistake)
The fishing expedition thing was referring to the older incident with Google in the US, not the current child porn thing.
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Calling that a "Child porn investigation case" is one of the most misleading statements I've ever heard. It was a "porn on the 'net fishing expedition."
Ok, can you elaborate on that? Normally, the cases where the prosecutors ask Google for Orkut user info normally involve child porn or drug distribution, and at least one case involved "virginity auctions" of ten-year-olds.
FAQ: What does the Google subpoena mean? The GP is right--the DOJ was fishing, and expected search engines to assist in their witchhunt to support their tenous position.
People on Google Brasil have access to the data just like people from the Google US.
That doesn't mean that they have the right, or can be compelled, to divulge that information.
And even if nobody in Google Brasil has access to such data, they can ask Google US for the data.
Which is what was suggested that they do.
For those playing at home: we just learned why Google is hesitant to build data centers in countries that have weaker protection for freedomes than does the US.
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Right, that was the case where the Admin. wanted Google to provide them with data they could mine to determine just how much adult porn was on the net that minors could hypothetically gain access to, in order to justify passing net-porn (NOT kiddie porn) legislation in the name of "protecting the children".
That's why Google was able to succesfully refuse the subpoena, because it had fuck-all to do with actual justice.
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You mean that information might be "proxied" at some brazilian data center?
A proxy is a type of caching system to accelerate delivery of frequently requested data. It is by no means a permanent storage system.
Information may not even be stored in the proxy's file system in a way humans can understand/navigate. But rather in a way to optimized for the machine to find and retrieve information.
If a request for a resouces not found in the cached occurs that information is retrieved from it's original source; it isn't always clear if such information served was cached in the proxy or not.
The first link you posted only suggests mirroring for data reduncancy, performed with RAID tecnology to prevent data loss due to hardware failures.
Do your research. We DO have constitutionally guaranteed privacy. It's spelled out in article 5, X, under "intimacy and private life":
o /Constitui%C3%A7ao.htm
X - são invioláveis a intimidade, a vida privada, a honra e a imagem das pessoas, assegurado o direito a indenização pelo dano material ou moral decorrente de sua violação;
https://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/Constituica
Things have changed since you dumped orkut. There has been a rise of Indian and Pakistani users, not to mention american users (probably indian and pakistanis residing in USA). Orkut has taken steps to prevent spams and phishing, and they have become faster. I recommend you give it a second chance.
Hi.
I see the problem as Brazilian authorities appear to be refusing to follow proper conduct. I agree that if the servers are in the US, then the laws that apply to those crimes is the US law and Brazilian authorities have no jurisdiction.
I think it should be solved, instead, by the Foreign Relations Office, that could forward the request either to Google itself or to the local authorities - I am not sure if it would be the FBI or the DOJ. Both would be more than happy to help and, IIRC, they could even ask - and be granted - extradition of non-Brazilian citizens to the US so they could be prosecuted there. This is, of course, about the child-porn problems. Speech is more protected in the US, so, it should be safe to use a US-based server to express illegal opinions about such things as racism or neo-nazis. The server is in the US, so Brazilian laws should not apply. Not that I approve racism or neo-nazis - it's a matter of jurisdiction.
OTOH, I am quite sure any employee of the Brazilian Google office that could have access to the requested data would be committing a crime in wherever-in-the-US the servers are by giving the requested information without proper authorization to foreign (from the server point-of-view) authorities and would face possible arrest upon setting foot on the US.
As it is configured now, it looks more like a pissing contest between Google and the Brazilian authorities. I side with Google, in that the data is not under Brazilian jurisdiction and Brazilian authorities are refusing to follow proper procedures for the case.
And yes, I am Brazilian and live in Brazil.
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