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IBM to Buy ISS for $1.3 Billion

gerald626 writes "IBM announced today that they have formed an agreement to purchase ISS for 1.3 billion dollars." From the article: " The all-cash transaction of about $28 per share is meant to bolster IBM's ability to deliver security services to corporations, the company said. ISS builds network protection products and services, including intrusion detection and monitoring tools. IBM said it intends to use ISS's expertise and software to provide more robust security-related services to its corporate customers."

43 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. Why would IBM... by Billosaur · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...want a space station? To spy on Redmond?

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:Why would IBM... by Lectrik · · Score: 2, Funny
      ...want a space station? To spy on Redmond?
      at least I wasn't the only one thinking that
      --
      --- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
    2. Re:Why would IBM... by infolib · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, they want the cleaning company. (2005 revenue $8e9)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
    3. Re:Why would IBM... by antek9 · · Score: 3, Funny

      RTFA, as in: Rolling on The Floor in Agony?

      --
      A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
      Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
    4. Re:Why would IBM... by Metzli · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree completely. It is a jumbled mouthful to discuss how Voice Over Internet Protocal Session Initiation Protocol traffic has Network Address Translation traversal issues because the Internet Protocol address is embedded into the Transfer Control Protocol / Internet Protocol packet. That's much harded to understand than discussing how VoIP SIP traffic has NAT traversal issues because the IP address is embedded into the TCP/IP packet.

      It does require knowledge of the acronyms, but the jumbled mass of words that would need to be used to decribe the situation are (IMHO) much worse.

      --
      "It's too bad stupidity isn't painful." - A. S. LaVey
    5. Re:Why would IBM... by CarnivorousCoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then perhaps a good heuristic is "the broader your audience, the fewer acronyms you should use".

      --
      What are you doing now, you lazy drunken obscene unsayable son of an unnameable gipsy obscenity?
    6. Re:Why would IBM... by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or at least provide a definition when first introducing an acronym. Besides the traditional method (i.e. brackets), in HTML, you can do something along the lines of IIS - which renders distinctively from general text, and shows a tooltip on hover.

      What rather took the edge off discovering that, for me, was that I'd already come up with a rather convoluted bit of DHTML to do exactly the same effect.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    7. Re:Why would IBM... by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Funny

      To complicate matters, I get ISS and IIS confused; I have to think which acronym is the station, and which one is the shitty web server.

      So, basically, I thought, "What...? How would IBM Purchasing Microsoft's web server improve security for anyone?! Unless they're going to burry it deep."

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    8. Re:Why would IBM... by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nah, they will paint it blue and white .. Billboard in space.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    9. Re:Why would IBM... by Richy_T · · Score: 3, Funny

      Too long. I suggest you abbreviate to TBYATFAYSU

      Rich

  2. Star Trek & IBM by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Funny
    IBM announced today that they have formed an agreement to purchase ISS for 1.3 billion dollars.


    IBM: This ISS, could it carry my wisdom beyond the Internet?

    Sybok: It could. Yes.

    IBM: Then I shall make use of this... ISS.

    Sybok: It will be your chariot!

    (Kirk politely raises his hand.)

    Kirk: Excuse me.

    IBM: It will carry my power to every corner of creation...

    Kirk: Excuse me! I'd just like to ask a question!

    (McCoy looks at Kirk like he just farted in church.)

    Kirk: Excuse me, but What does IBM need with a space station?
    1. Re:Star Trek & IBM by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      McCoy: Psst! Jim! He's talking about Internet Security Systems!

      (Kirk looks sheepish)

      Kirk: Doh!

      (IBM rolls its eyes)

      (Yes, of course I knew what TFA was talking about. The headline, however, was just too good to pass up! :P)

    2. Re:Star Trek & IBM by rts008 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Awckk!
      I just spewed coffee all over my monitor, you insensetive clod!

      LOL! Very good post- funny, and gets back ontopic, yet is directly replying to offtopic posts. Well done, since I don't have mod points to give you now.

      I also thought of the space station reading the summary, but then RTFA- no, no space station was harmed (or even used) in creating this article.

      The article might have been more interesting if it was about IBM buying the space station- especially if they included Russia's response!

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    3. Re:Star Trek & IBM by monoqlith · · Score: 2, Funny
      Kirk: Excuse me, but What does IBM need with a space station?


      No, no. You have it all wrong. The question Kirk asked was:

      Kirk: Excuse me.....but what.... does....IBMneed....with...aspacestation?
  3. Nice headline by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe in this case it would be wise to spell out the acronym, so we don't all have a tizzy that they're buying *THE* ISS, the one orbiting the Earth.

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    stuff |
    1. Re:Nice headline by Intron · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes. NASA gets $1.3B up front, but wait til they start getting the IBM service bills. Travel time alone ...

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    2. Re:Nice headline by SnowZero · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe in this case it would be wise to spell out the acronym,

      International Business Machines

      There, does that help?

    3. Re:Nice headline by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hmm.. back when I used to work there it was usually "I've Been Moved", refering to the yearly seemingly random redistribution of people throughout the company that was policy at the time.

    4. Re:Nice headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ....soon to be "Interstellar Business Machines"!

  4. You guys are so goofy! by RobertB-DC · · Score: 5, Funny

    Geez, everyone's telling the same lame "ISS" = "International Space Station" joke.

    It's just a typo! Haven't you figured that out yet? IBM simply bought IIS from Microsoft. I wonder if they'll make IIS run on Linux?

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    1. Re:You guys are so goofy! by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Geez, everyone's telling the same lame "ISS" = "International Space Station" joke.

      Shows that Slashdot is going to the dogs, Goofy, Pluto or other. Yeah, Ha Ha Ha, big yuks all around. It's probably a bit like hell, being told the same dumb joke over and over and over.

      So the reality is, with Microsoft getting into the security biz, so is IBM. Looks like security companies are the new Hot Property.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  5. Re:I can see it now. by Snarfangel · · Score: 5, Funny

    There are going to be millions of mod point used on -1 Redundant.

    That's only because there isn't a -1 Obvious.

    Now, back to my job at NASA.

    --
    This tagline is copyrighted material. Please send $10 for an affordable replacement.
  6. Internet Security Systems by GieltjE · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is internet security systems: http://iss.net/ I hope blackice remains as a pc firewall, I think it is one of the best

    --
    Free yourself use open source.
  7. Internet Security Systems! (The Article) by vaderhelmet · · Score: 2, Informative

    IBM made a resounding move into security on Wednesday, acquiring Internet Security Systems for $1.3 billion.

    The all-cash transaction of about $28 per share is meant to bolster IBM's ability to deliver security services to corporations, the company said.

    ISS builds network protection products and services, including intrusion detection and monitoring tools.

    IBM said it intends to use ISS's expertise and software to provide more robust security-related services to its corporate customers.

    "This acquisition will help IBM to provide companies with access to trained experts and leading-edge processes and technology to evaluate and protect against threats and enforce security policies," said Val Rahmani, general manager of infrastructure management services at IBM Global Services.

    The ISS acquisition, expected to close in fourth quarter of this year, adds to a rapid-fire succession of big purchases at IBM. In August alone, IBM has announced plans to buy Webify Solutions, MRO Software and FileNet. The tab, if all the deals go through, will exceed $3.6 billion.

    Looking to boost revenue from software and services, most of the company's acquisitions--which total more than 40 since 2003--have been software firms.

    IBM is seeking to grow profits by creating a comprehensive product portfolio and deliver a combination of software and consulting services, according to company executives.

    With ISS, Big Blue intends to deliver the company's products through consulting engagements and hosted services.

    "By delivering an integrated security platform that is adaptable and extensible to address new threats and business requirements without incremental complexity and cost, ISS has delivered the foundation for delivering security as a service," said Tom Noonan, president and CEO of ISS.

    IBM already offers some managed security services and includes security software in its Tivoli product line.

  8. Re:Why would IBM... simple by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

    IBM's decision to buy the ISS was a fantastic decision. They can now freely ignore the Sarbanes Oxlley laws as well as Monopoly and other laws in every country as the IBM headquarters will not be located in outer space making them immune to earth laws.

    Great move on the executives part!

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  9. You mean it's not the REAL space station? by scottennis · · Score: 2, Funny

    Bad, wicked, naughty Zoot. She's been setting alight to our beacon, which, I just remembered, is space station shaped.

    It's not the first time this has happened.

  10. That's no Battle Station... by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's a company!

    Internet Security Systems. www.iss.net

    They do security. That is how IBM will derive security benefits from the purchase. At least that would be the going theory.

    ISS has also apparently made a huge impression on Slashdot readers. *smirk*

    Although buying a space station and fitting it with an Annihiliation Beam which they can use to hold the world for ransom to the tune of one... million... dollars, would seem to have some shareholder value as well, I didn't know that the shares in the Space Station were only 28$ a share. Or that shares even existed for the space station. It must be those wacky Russians trying to make another few million off space.

  11. Pfffft! by irregular_hero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a horrible move on IBM's part.

    ISS is having its clock cleaned in the market, pulled apart by high-performance enterprise IPS vendors (Tipping Point, Juniper, Cisco, and the like) on one side, and having their thunder stolen by platform security vendors (Sygate, Check Point, Netscreen, and, yes, even Cisco) on the other -- not to mention the "built-in" stuff that Microsoft has released and the more advanced platform security controls that the company is prepping for release.

    Not too long ago, ISS made the fateful decision to knife most of its IDS/IPS product lines in the back by discontinuing support for "General Purpose" servers and third party appliances, effectively forcing all of its enterprise customers to buy an "owned" ISS appliance (the Proventia series). Companies with large deployments of ISS RealSecure on now End of Lifed platforms suddenly found themselves offered a year of update support and another capital outlay to "upgrade" to Proventia appliances. Not many followed the company down that path, but the ones that did get "first cut" appliances found that they, well, sucked. The company then recentered on a more "appliance"-looking hardware platform, but, by then, the damage was done.

    Then ISS took a market-leading desktop security product, BlackICE, and folded it into their IDS/IPS management product. The integration damn near killed a lot of existing BlackICE customers, not to mention the fact that succeeding software releases were, in many cases, incompatible with previous releases. Those customers who bravely rolled out a BlackICE installation found themselves in the unenviable position of having to do the rollout all over again.

    Then there's ISS's reputation for "leading-edge" security research. Enter the firing of Michael Lynn related to the Cisco BlackHat presentation... They look like idiots out of the whole ordeal, more interested in protecting their corporate butts from the Cisco PR engine than the disclosure of even SANTITIZED security information.

    IBM? Good luck with your new toy. It was broken before you bought it.

    1. Re:Pfffft! by ilaci · · Score: 5, Informative

      irregular_hero, you are of course entitled to your opinions. Hopefully I can provide a little more information about some of the points you are confused on.

      > Not too long ago, ISS made the fateful decision to knife most of its IDS/IPS product lines in the back by discontinuing support for "General Purpose" servers and third party appliances, effectively forcing all of its enterprise customers to buy an "owned" ISS appliance (the Proventia series).

      I'm guessing by "General Purpose" servers you are referring to the Network Sensor and Server Sensor products which could run on hardware you bought. The first Proventia appliance launched was the Proventia A, which was the Network Sensor software pre-installed on a rackmount, sold as a unit. In truth the Proventia A was not very different from the Network Sensor software because it was almost running the same software. The appliance came about because many customers did not wish to buy their own hardware -- they wished to have the appliance. On the other hand, many customers did still wish to buy their own hardware. Thus, Network Sensors, Server Sensors, and Proventia As are in fact all still fully supported. The exception is the slow phase-out of the least popular Nokia and Solaris platforms.

      For more information on the Product Life Cycle of the above mentioned products, please see the Product Documentation for the product you're interested in:
      Server Sensor -- http://www.iss.net/support/documentation/docs.php? product=15&family=7
      Network Sensor -- http://www.iss.net/support/documentation/docs.php? product=12&family=6
      Proventia A -- http://www.iss.net/support/documentation/docs.php? product=35&family=12
      Or for a full listing of products you can see the documentation for, please see: http://www.iss.net/support/documentation/index.php

      There may have been some confusion on this point due to the wild popularity of the Proventia G and Proventia M products which is a completely different product and relies on completely different software. The older Network Sensor, Server Sensor, and Proventia A products are in fact still available, supported, and sold.

      > Companies with large deployments of ISS RealSecure on now End of Lifed platforms suddenly found themselves offered a year of update support and another capital outlay to "upgrade" to Proventia appliances. Not many followed the company down that path, but the ones that did get "first cut" appliances found that they, well, sucked. The company then recentered on a more "appliance"-looking hardware platform, but, by then, the damage was done.

      I believe you may have to be more specific to help resolve your confusion here. Perhaps you were on one of the least-popular platforms of Nokia or Solaris which has been slowly phased out to improve support for more popular products? Based on your mention of appliances, I can only guess you had a Network Sensor (since there is no such thing as a Server Sensor appliance)? The first appliances that came out were the Proventia As, which ran pretty much the same exact software as the Network Sensor software. So your frustration was perhaps due to the hardware? As I mentioned above, the Network Sensor software on many platforms including Linux is still fully supported.

      > Then ISS took a market-leading desktop security product, BlackICE, and folded it into their IDS/IPS management product. The integration damn near killed a lot of existing BlackICE customers, not to mention the fact that succeeding software releases were, in many cases, incompatible with previous

    2. Re:Pfffft! by irregular_hero · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hey, glad to see ISS's PR department knows about Slashdot. And, hey! You're right, I was affected by the product line "simplification"! Glad to meet you, now sit down and listen.

      Knifing the Nokia relationship left lots of enterprise customers in the dust, not because it was done, but it was done while 1) the product was still being actively pushed by both companies, and 2) without an assessment of what impact it would have on the customer base. Let's face it, the Nokia stuff was axed because ISS wanted to enter the appliance space, without regard to existing deployments. I still remember the arrogant tact of ISS's sales staff when they approached us with the news AND a quote for replacing all of our deployments with Proventia -- it was 20% higher than our TCO on Nokia! That was, and still is, a bad BUSINESS move, and left a lot of customers with a bad taste in their mouths about ISS. That aside...

      I find your assertion about the Proventia G and M being "wildly popular" a bit dubious for a product that has only had about a year and a half in the market (and, yes, I'm counting that from the launch of the G400 and G2000 -- as an enterprise customer, they're the only ones we every considered). I talk with a lot of ISS customers. The big ones -- the truly big ones -- consider themselves saddled with their Proventia investment. They see other vendors coming in providing multi-gigabit solutions that operate at wire speeds on all packet sizes... They see IPS functionality being rolled into core switch fabrics, some of them on general purpose blades... They begin to wonder why they're invested in edge IPS when their firewalls are starting to gain the same feature functionality... And they get angry when a Core update munges their SiteProtector AGAIN... Leave the assessment of "wildly popular" to the point in time when these users report themselves as being totally satisfied with the investment they've made, not because our installed base is X^2 instead of X.

      I know you've still got a "general purpose" network sensor out there. We used to run a few of those, until we had little nagging issues with XPUs where the proposed solution was "get to Proventia" because "that's where the development is being done now". And although your Network Sensor has an "inline mode," I know for a fact that your sales force actively steers people away from using it as an IPS. Having a product available is not the same as being able to provide undeniably good support for it -- just ask CA about that one.

      As for the BlackICE (nee Desktop Protector, nee Proventia Desktop) installation, hey; what can I say? I wish we could all adopt a product at a point along its lifespan where everything is as we want it. But that didn't happen for us -- and for other customers (mostly bleeding-edge adopters). To speak to the "integration" with SiteProtector, I'd say the selling point there is relatively limited compared to what it was proposed to be when sold to us. But what do I know? I'm just a guy that has to redeploy a bunch of crap that will be replaced by GPO-managed Windows firewall rules and next-gen platform health checking that Microsoft will eventually give us for free. For the second time.

      Thanks for the response, though.

    3. Re:Pfffft! by irregular_hero · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I love responding to ISS people! I really do!

      I didn't say that the companies I mentioned were on the bleeding edge, just that they're making serious inroads against ISS. Hell, all Cisco has to do is sneeze together an IPS solution and lots of companies would buy it based solely on the label and the fact that it fits into their Catalyst (and I would argue that they did exactly that with their current product lines). Last time I checked, wasn't Cisco now selling more IDS/IPS gear than anyone else in terms of revenue? Oh, yeah, this IS an economy of scale, isn't it?

      Oh yeah, the XP firewall... wow, that was really a direct shot in the heart to ISS. Considering the huge number of enterprises currently running Vista, I can see how you might conclude there is no longer a market for 3rd-party desktop security agents.

      I have no love for the stuff Microsoft gives us. I despise the build-in strategy they like to force on the marketplace. But it's FREE. It's bundled with the damn product we have to run anyway. It's totally FREE. And we sure as hell will go Vista when it comes because most of our backend systems will require it and our user systems will likely rely on Vista-integrated features. And then there's that FREE thing again. Good luck on that one, most companies like to get handouts because it makes you look good on the balance sheet -- and if it doesn't work, then you can blame Microsoft, which everyone does anyway, AND which never has any effect because there's really no other way you can go if you saddled yourself to that horse.

      I could spend time explaining the performance advantages that Proventia brought to the table, or the fact that tech support calls per appliance sold took a drastic nosedive, or that a *majority* of customers have moved to Proventia, but you're clearly either a competitor or otherwise motivated by some negative interaction you had with the company, so I'll let it slide.

      How in the hell did you figure out that I've had negative interaction with ISS? Good call! You're right that I have -- and that has indeed colored my view of the company, of which I have some pretty strong opinions. And those opinions of the company are based on the people, not the product -- I'm aware that the Proventias continue to improve. But that's hardly my fault, I've only been dealing with ISS as a customer since 1994 or so. Definitely not long enough to develop any empirical data to support my assertions that they're not customer-friendly. I take all of it back.

      I am, after all, naive about how "a company" works -- it's definitely not about making customers happy AND making money. It's only about making money, isn't it? And as long as we're making money, the customers will stay with us! That's the ticket!

      Mike Lynn resigned. To this day he doesn't have much bad to say about ISS the company, but does hold a handful of employees responsible for the situation that ensued.

      Uh huh. Glad to see he's got class. He still left a company because of a disagreement that ISS exacerbated by refusing to defend him. I say "fired". And "bamboozled". And "removed". And "backhanded". And "sirloin". Whatever. He's got class where ISS refused to have any.

      I trust IBM did it's homework a lot more thoroughly that you before performing this acquisition. And it's a good thing, since your version of homework is false accusations, half-truths and conjecture.

      Yeah, I guess being a customer of a company gives you no insight to be able to judge how poorly a company performs for its customers. And now that you mention it, as I hadn't to this point actually engaged in false accusations, half-truths, and conjecture, I might as well.

      False accusation: I find ISS's management to be not at all a big bunch of baboons with excessively large penchants for flinging shit in their customers' faces.

      Half-truths: I find ISS's management to be a big bunch of baboons with excessively large penchants for flinging shit in their customers' faces.

      Conjecture: IBM is likely to find itself up to its armpits in customers with shitty faces.

      Ciao!

  12. Why 1.3 billion is no money at all... by spinja · · Score: 2, Informative

    Look at the stock price for ISSX, compare that to the purchase price of about $28/share. There is a total "premium" of 7% above the market value of the ISS stock. The only entity making money on this deal is the brokerage firm that handled the transaction.

  13. Serious Comment by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At the risk of disrupting the fun, I'd like to interject a serious comment. ISS resells some real security technologies that IBM has been missing from their offerings for a long time. In the network security space, they resell some important technology that has traditionally been in the "Cisco camp" and thus mostly implemented by enterprise customers that don't do a lot of business with IBM. This could really change the landscape of enterprise security... in a few years when IBM manages to get ISS integrated into their sales channels.

  14. Now it's your turn... by Talennor · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is funny, because as someone who has worked for ISS (Internet Security Systems) and frequently reads Slashdot, I've found several articles confusing when people write about /the/ ISS (Space Station) and I think, "Wait, what the hell are we doing?" So I welcome you all to my world of ambiguousness, which won't exist much longer now that it's been bought...

    --

    //TODO: signature
  15. Back in the day... by OriginalArlen · · Score: 5, Funny

    when I first started working in infosec (5, 6 years ago) I spent a lot of time downloading and playing with the free trials for various vuln scanners - ISS, Retina, LANGuard and so on. I mentioned this to someone with more security experience who replied "ISS? It's Still Shit, right?"

    --

    Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
  16. 100% agree with you by brennz · · Score: 2, Informative

    First of all, ISS's vulnerability scanner has turned to such a piece of dog doo, I wouldn't touch it with a poop scooper. In 2005, it was installing an vulnerable MSDE onto windows boxes, and just patching the MSDE was enough to break compatibility (This vulnerability has been out for 3 months at the time). On the product side though, ISS's scanners have been thoroughly stomped by Tenable's Nessus and Eeye's Retina.

    As far as ISS goes on the IDS/IPS side, their products went from leader to lackluster. Snort, Tipping point, and Intrushield - need I say more?

    Then on the vulnerability database side, you have the X-Force DB being demolished by the innovative Open Source Vulnerability Database led by real security gurus like Jericho, not to mention the other DBs like Secunia, NVD, etc.

    ISS = vaguely reminds me of CA, corporate types taking good products and not keeping them updated, not innovating, and just trying to suck the blood from corporate customers.

  17. Re:Yes i'm redundant by BillGod · · Score: 2, Informative

    Internet Security Systems They make scanner software. I used it a few years back. It was pretty cool but retina was better. My $.02

    --
    MISSING - Sig file. 2 years old black and white and very funny. If found please email me.
  18. Obligatory by geobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

    We should eliminate acronyms altogether. They get in the way of comprehension.

    "Since the VP is such a VIP, maybe we should keep the PC on the QT. Otherwise he could go MIA, and we'd all end up on KP."

    Sounds perfectly nonobfuscationalized to me.

    --
    Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    1. Re:Obligatory by geobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

      The phrase may be nonobfuscated, however your new-fangled word isn't ;-)

      Yeah, but the real word didn't seem... well, cromulent enough.

      I guess I could have gone for nonantidisobfuscationalizapated.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
  19. Finally! A commercial reason for space habitats! by alienmole · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You may have hit on something here -- if all the world's megacorps decided they needed jurisdiction-free headquarters in space, the problem of humanity being stuck on planet Earth would be solved! Before this decade is out, we could have a space-based population consisting of hundreds of thousands of CxOs, lawyers, accountants, and their support staff.

    Perhaps we've been looking in all the wrong places for the Right Stuff? The future of space is... cubicles!

  20. Re:Finally! A commercial reason for space habitats by arthurpaliden · · Score: 4, Funny

    It the start of the "B" Ark. Every one know where their towel is.

  21. Re:Star Trek & IBM -- What are you talking abo by Ster · · Score: 4, Funny

    That sounds like it might have been between ST: IV and ST: VI, but we all know that there was no movie in between ST: IV and ST: VI .

    ...

    It didn't happen, okay!

    -Ster

  22. Re:Finally! A commercial reason for space habitats by muzzmac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow! Now that would make for a popular nuclear missile target I'll bet.