Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Mainframe Meets 'The Office'

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the who-knew-big-blue-was-funny dept.

BBCWatcher writes "Tom Foremski (a.k.a. Silicon Valley Watcher) claims that IBM is doing some guerilla marketing for the mainframe. The three videos, now on YouTube, show how IBM allegedly trains new mainframe salespeople, in the style of the BBC's "The Office." IBM's videos arrive in the midst of a Microsoft "Office" controversy. Microsoft was not amused when somebody leaked internal training videos from 2004 that feature Ricky Gervais, The Office man himself. Gervais wasn't happy either."

50 comments

  1. Funny! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If worked a bit, this would make a good SNL skit.

    1. Re:Funny! by Konster · · Score: 2, Funny

      You are right, neither SNL nor these are funny.

    2. Re:Funny! by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      Kinda like this obscure Windows Movie Maker 2 video. I don't think it's supposed to be funny, but it's just so bad...

      --
      DATABASE WOW WOW
    3. Re:Funny! by hubritc · · Score: 1

      Ok. I was warned it was bad but I feel a little part of my life has been torn out of my chest. I guess I assumed it was good bad ... but now that I re-read your post, you never made such a promise. ... This is so bad as to give bad videos a worse name... It could only be thought of as creative by the progenetors of clippy(tm). This is to video entertainment what windows ME is to operating systems.

  2. I like guerilla marketing by QuantumFTL · · Score: 1

    As long as guerilla marketing is entertaining, I'm all for it. Anything to stop the never-ending stream of "apply directly to the forehead" and the like.

    1. Re:I like guerilla marketing by HiroProtagonist · · Score: 1

      That "Apply Directly to the Forehead" ad is the TV equivalent of a http://www.ytmnd.com/ page.

      --
      --Remove chicken to e-mail
    2. Re:I like guerilla marketing by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

      You mean like this?

      Go to a computer store and put that into every browser, then lock the workstations... Oh to be 12 years old again!

    3. Re:I like guerilla marketing by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's another commercial for some hemorrhoid cream "from the makers of Head On." I'm scared that soon there'll be commercials saying "Apply directly to asshole. Apply directly to asshole. Apply directly to asshole."

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    4. Re:I like guerilla marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not funny.. This is the young Balmer before he got true aggression.. It's prescient; it's the truth.... Hell, I'm going to go go out and buy a mainframe now with my company's money just to support this kind of video making. :-)

  3. Funny? by homer_s · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is as funny as a coporately funded, PHB-driven campaign could ever be.

    But the IBM employees who are forced to watch this will laugh though. They better.

  4. Just curious by SirSlud · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How naive do you have to be to be a Microsoft employee that had this brainchild and think that wouldn't get leaked about 5 minutes after video was made available to programmers? The most powerful government in the world leaks shit all the time; I read the whole MS reaction as more of a predictable corperate response for the benifit of shareholder confidance than I do an actual admission of surprise.

    Maybe thats even sadder, that this is a good proof of existance of people who hold stock who interpret this kind of leak to be a reflection on the internal controls of corperate communication.

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
    1. Re:Just curious by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Informative

      How naive do you have to be to be a Microsoft employee that had this brainchild and think that wouldn't get leaked about 5 minutes after video was made available to programmers?

      Well, considering TFA says that the videos were made in 2004, it took about 2 years before the programmers got their hands on them...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
  5. Lies! by ImTheDarkcyde · · Score: 5, Funny

    This article has NOTHING to do with a comibinatin of Reboot and The Office

    1. Re:Lies! by FoXDie · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Hahahhahahaha! I was thinking the same thing! Long live ReBoot!

      --
      Support Liberty, Support Ron Paul
    2. Re:Lies! by B3ryllium · · Score: 1

      Oh my gosh. You TOTALLY had the same thought as me.

      I was thinking ... they could have some sort of computer crash, and Enzo and Bob could come in and save the day. Heh. :)

    3. Re:Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weak, how did I get a mod down for offtopic and this one got modded up. Read the fucking comments douchebags.

  6. Listen to the bubbles pop by TopSpin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Remember the Enron "Why" campaign? When corporations have so much dead wood wandering the halls that this sort of stuff begins to emerge, you should expect mass layoffs. I don't like being the pessimist, but I'll need this on the record when I say I told you so.

    --
    Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
  7. You mean... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those IBM ads with the helpless I.T. folks in the trade magazines aren't fake?!

  8. Oh wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's nice to see some coverage of mainframes here on Slashdot once and a while. Even more so when it's these videos.

    The mainframe market tanked in the 90's. In the past year it's starting to see some life in it again. There's even one company of former Amdahl people who are doing mainframes with Linux (and z/OS on top of it). Here's the link: http://www.platform-solutions.com/

    Disclaimer: I know some of these people.

    Honestly, without some sort of life, and especially competition, the mainframe market was looking quite dead. Which would be a pity, as mainframes are still quite cool in the niche they fill.

    1. Re:Oh wow by legoburner · · Score: 1

      Are mainframes a realistic alternative to clusters of cheap servers for virtualization? I would assume that the cheap, easily replaceable hardware is better but am not sure of all the niche uses of virtualization and know that Sun tends to push the mainframe solution for this. Anybody got any educated opinions on this?

      --
      Warhammer forums
    2. Re:Oh wow by pimpimpim · · Score: 1
      ok, so as you're in the business, and I'm not :) I have a small question. I once by curiosity found this excellent article describing AS/400 pricing systems. And I was shocked. If you buy the low-end version, you already have the full power chip, but just slowed down. For about $ 20k per processor you can unlock that, but that will also require you to buy another license, for several additional k$ per processor. Also check the price/performance comparison for competing UNIX and Linux systems shown there. What kind of pricing system is that? I can imagine the hardware is a bit more stable etc, but relative performance of the Power PC is not as good it used to be. Still IBM is probably just asking prices that it thinks it can get away with. Why are they doing this?

      And, wouldn't someone else be able to use commodity chips (some workstation-grade core 2 duo or opteron) and build a robust system out of that, for only part of they price they ask. Thomas J. Watson was a very good salesman (a bit too good to be legal :) ), and I guess IBM still has a very good salesforce to get their stuff out, but how long can they keep this up with pricing systems like this?

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
    3. Re:Oh wow by btarval · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mainframes are absolutely competitive. The main reason why people have stuck with mainframes is IO bandwidth. The PC solutions (even clustered) just can't touch the channel architecture, and never have been able to.

      The second main reason why people go with mainframes is that it's more cost-effective to centralize your compute resources in one system, when it comes to maintenance, for many solutions. One single rack or so is a heck of a lot easier to maintain than a Beowulf cluster of boxes, particularly if the latter are scattered.

      So yes, for certain niches, mainframes are the way to go.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
    4. Re:Oh wow by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 2, Informative

      I once by curiosity found this excellent article describing AS/400 pricing systems.

      AS/400s are mini computers, not mainframes..

      And I was shocked. If you buy the low-end version, you already have the full power chip, but just slowed down. For about $ 20k per processor you can unlock that, but that will also require you to buy another license, for several additional k$ per processor.

      Usually that also comes with on-site service and the like of a kind that Dell and friends haven't heard of yet.

      Also check the price/performance comparison for competing UNIX and Linux systems shown there. What kind of pricing system is that?

      I don't know this particular study, but I'd mostly be looking for an AS/400 if I'm looking for something to run a huge database, not hundreds of virtual machines.

      I can imagine the hardware is a bit more stable etc, but relative performance of the Power PC is not as good it used to be.

      The performance of a machine depends on a lot more then the CPU however. IO bandwidth is a major factor in performance, esp. when the dataset you work on gets substantially bigger then fits in cache or even main memory.

      Hence looking at the cpu architecture is not going to tell you much about a system which specializes in IO bandwidth (mainframe class computers)

      Stability of hardware, possibility to replace hardware without taking the system down and such are also part of the picture of course, but not unique to mainframe hardware.

      Still IBM is probably just asking prices that it thinks it can get away with. Why are they doing this?

      Uh, because they are a business and are in it for the money?

      And, wouldn't someone else be able to use commodity chips (some workstation-grade core 2 duo or opteron) and build a robust system out of that, for only part of they price they ask.

      Seeing the amounts of money going around in that market, someone would have tried.. As a matter of fact, people tried more then once, and in the mid 90s the mainframe market looked dead and it looked like commodity hardware was outdating it. Somehow, this never really happened however.

      Thomas J. Watson was a very good salesman (a bit too good to be legal :) ), and I guess IBM still has a very good salesforce to get their stuff out, but how long can they keep this up with pricing systems like this?

      Untill someone beats them at it or the market just dissapears.. Right now however it looks like they beat everyone who tried to beat them.

      Welcome to the real world where businesses exist to 'produce shareholder value', or more generally, are in it for the money.

    5. Re:Oh wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      wouldn't someone else be able to use commodity chips (some workstation-grade core 2 duo or opteron) and build a robust system out of that, for only part of they price they ask.

      Since SillyNickName4Me already replied to your questions, let me add to this one. Sure, anyone could do this, but there's one key thing missing: Z/OS. Slap a bunch of Opterons together, and you still have absolutely nothing without applications. And all the applications are written for Z/OS.

      You're not going to be able to get people to convert to Linux or Windows (well, only a small fraction would consider it). People don't want to rewrite their existing applications. They want a hardware solution which is completely compatible.

      That's why it sounds like Platform Solutions has done the right thing. They hired a bunch of the old Amdahl software guys and have got their compatible version of Z/OS. Supposedly (from the latest marketing trade show and their claims from their customers), their version of Z/OS is indeed compatible, running on top of Linux.

      Good luck trying to re-invent that. The only guys who can do this well in a timely fashion are the 50-60 year old guys who have been doing Z/OS for the past 30 years. They know it inside and out.

      It would be extremely funny to see some 2-bit Venture Capitalist try to slap some PCs together, hire a ton of cheap coders from India, and try to duplicate this. Anybody with experience in software projects can tell you that the resulting product has a very high probability of being a failure. Even if they managed to ship something, selling it is an even tougher battle. CIO's buy IBM because it's IBM. They'd consider Platform Solutions because the developers have tons of IBM experience. Trying to push a clone where the OS didn't work quite right is going to be a failure.

      Or, in short, there's a very high Intellectual Property cliff to climb here.

      As far as the clone makers who died in the 90's goes, one could well argue that was due to bad management being unable to adapt to a changing market. Lessons have been learned, and new approaches are being tried.

      Even IBM has supposedly admitted privately that PSI's entry is a good thing, as their customers like solutions where there are alternatives. And that this market would shrink significantly if IBM was the only game in town.

    6. Re:Oh wow by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      I know a business that replaced several super computers with clusters.

      1. They saved money (they were paying $100,000 per month for support - once the cluster was in place they managed their own support at a fraction of that cost).

      2. They saved time (jobs that took the super computer 48 hours to complete, were completed by the new cluster of Linux machines interconnected with fiber in 1 hour). So they could do more work.

      From my own experience, using mainframe equipment has drawbacks - the major one being a shared backplane that can become a single point of failure for the whole system. On the other hand, if a workstation/server motherboard goes bad, you can take it out of the cluster, replace or repair it without making a significant impact on operations.

      Decentralization is good imho.

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    7. Re:Oh wow by jgiltner · · Score: 1

      Mainframes and super computers are two different types of computers and are targeted and two different markets. In fact the super computer market is gone. I'm not even sure when the last "super comptuer" was built. Today's "super computers" are nothing but clustered smaller computers, either Intel/AMD x86 or PowerPC based, have been for at least 5 years. Mainframes are not targeted for compute intensive only work. They are targeted as a general purpose computer that can run multiple types of workloads at the same time. I know of sites that are using the virtualization capabilities of IBM's mainframes to run thousands of virtual Linux images that replaced or prevented the installation of thousands of Intel based boxes. One company has estimated that they will save $16 million dollars over the next 3 years by running 350 virtual Linux images on the mainframe vs. running them on real hardware or even virtual images using VMWare. This was after they purchased two IBM mainframes just for the virtual Linux enviroment. Not sure how current your mainframe experience is, but today's mainframes only single point of failure is power. It must have electricity to run. Decentralization can have it problems. I know of sites that have tried to get rid of their mainframe, but after trying to create a database cluster of a few hundred boxes, they realized that updates are a pain, performance was no where near what the mainframe had, software costs were way more than they ever thought they would be (who new MS and Oracle charged by the CPU?) and the people needed to run 500-1000 servers were much more expensive than the number of people needed to run two mainframes. Now mainframes are not for everybody. I would not suggest every company run mainframes, but mainframes do have their places. They still run 60-70 of all business critical transactions in the world.

    8. Re:Oh wow by btarval · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. Decentralization is NOT good. Centralization is NOT good. Both are good at times, and bad at times. The trick is that you have to know when to use each, and when to avoid them.

      Just saying one is always good is just plain silly. And, no disrespect intended, it indicates to me that you don't understand all of the variances which go one.

      A case in point is your strawman argument. All this says is that your main application is naturally parallel, nor IO bound. I can guarantee you that I can create an application where your big-node cluster isn't faster. And that's not even with touching the IO issues.

      And do some research on the channel architecture sometime. The common cluster solutions just don't come close. I won't even go into the maintenance and upkeep issues..

      The point is, one should know one's problem and what tools are available. There is no single silver bullet for all problems. Claiming otherwise is just plain silly.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
  9. re by brennz · · Score: 1

    Both of these videos series are great.

    Initially I watched the IBM videos and I was very impressed.

    The first episode of the Microsoft video though, was beyond incredible, i'm talking about Heat gang exfiltrating the bank gunfight in LA kinda of quality.

    Definitely worth watching.

  10. You are kidding me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Microsoft video that leaked was some sort of a holy grail for tons of The Office fans out there.. Millions of people had pestered Ricky Gervais to continue where the The Christmas Specials left, and this video is the best shot. Are you kidding me? Noone should be asking about the leak, this is genius stuff. This in fact puts Microsoft in a new spotlight - Microsoft should be lauded for sponsoring the creative and talented bests in the world; the entire thing about criticizing Microsoft is complete crap as almost everyone knows unlike those reporters who think David Brent is making Bill Gates and Microsoft look bad - hell with them.

    The thing is that one should what is comedy and what is not; although for fans most of the stuff is not new - the Stephen Hawking bit, the Nelson Mandela bit are all part of The Office / his Animals/Politics Live standup comedy shows almost verbatim...

    Even Ricky Gervais is freaking me out as he should know better than people thinking that "David Brent is back". Six BAFTAs 2 Golden Globes ought to bring that fact clear.

    Don't even bother with these mediocre IBM videos, and don't even think about the US/UK versions of The Office; Gervais' stuff has been copied over and over again in Germany, France, US, Canada....

  11. Re:"apply directly to the forehead" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ARRGGHHH I Hate that product. ! will never buy it and will not speak its name. The deepest most firey pits of hell are reserved for the creators of that ad. It got the product stuck in my head but because of that I have such negative memories (probably require therapy later in life) that I will not buy it or any other product from that manufacturer.. ARRGHH I hate that crap.

  12. Definitely IBM's doing by Sean0michael · · Score: 2, Funny
    No need for alleging here. When you go to IBM's Site for Mainframes, you see that the tag line under the photo is "Breakthrough Economics, Security, and Energy Efficiency." They are the three points from the three videos. It doesn't get any more plain than that.

    ...and the IBM website at the end of the clips.

    --
    Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
  13. Offtopic: flash download by eneville · · Score: 1

    So, does anyone know how to get the video file from youtube? I hate to think they might some day remove this content from their site.

    --
    Why UNIX?
    1. Re:Offtopic: flash download by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php

    2. Re:Offtopic: flash download by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      http://www.videodl.org/

      --
      == Jez ==
      Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
    3. Re:Offtopic: flash download by naapo · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's a Firefox plugin for just that purpose. It also supports Google Video and a ton of other sites. The videos in YouTube are actually "flash video" (.flv), not Flash per se. You can play them with e.g. "mplayer" (not the same as Windows Media Player).
      Firefox plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2390/
      MPlayer: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/

    4. Re:Offtopic: flash download by richlv · · Score: 1

      probably best to wait until they appear on google videos ;>
      at least they provide avi for download, which i could use (as flash streaming is slow, error prone and sound-less for me)

      --
      Rich
  14. Eek. Boring by saikou · · Score: 1

    So that's the new sparkly type of humor that's supposed to have all programmers giggle of joy and sell mainframe products? Or not sell mainframes? I mean what was the purpose of it? Everyone pretty much knows about IBM anyways, and those stupid printed ads for servers are all over the IT press (also not so funny, though once in a while that little chubby guy does something funny, say one out of 10 of those I saw).

    I am so out of touch with the funny bone in this type of humor. I had to google for Ricky Gervais to find out who he is. I know some of my friends love the Office but... I tried to watch that "Microsoft video" and wanted to snooze after five minutes. The IBM one was even faster.

    I suppose marketing material is not to be funny, but this... Not sure what they try to accomplish.

    Confusing...

    --
    Hyperom.com
    1. Re:Eek. Boring by mccalli · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am so out of touch with the funny bone in this type of humor. I had to google for Ricky Gervais to find out who he is. I know some of my friends love the Office but... I tried to watch that "Microsoft video" and wanted to snooze after five minutes. The IBM one was even faster.

      Ricky Gervaise is brilliant at what he does, but I'm in the same position as you and can't really appreciate it. Slightly different reason though - I find comedy that makes me squirm hard to watch. The Office (UK, I've never seen the US version) is very cutting and accurate for so many places. Trouble is, being in those places makes me want to squirm and so seeing it reproduced on screen also makes me want to squirm.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:Eek. Boring by niceone · · Score: 1

      You are not alone - I can't watch that stuff either - for exactly the same squirmy reasons.

      A lot of UK comedy seems to be going that way too unfortunately

      --
      ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
    3. Re:Eek. Boring by florin · · Score: 1

      Ah well, I spose it's not for everyone. Perhaps they should've brought in some Friends cast members and have them apply their hilarious 'here comes a punchline' mimicry to these clips. Maybe follow with some canned laughter to cue merriment for those who still didn't get it.

      The IBM one was tame. I completely loved the Microsoft one.

    4. Re:Eek. Boring by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      I love "The Office" (the British version is better than the American knockoff, IMHO). But I have a similar squirmy reaction to "reality" comedies where someone isn't in on the joke ("Punked," "Candid Camera," "Man Bites Dog," etc.). I do occasionally laugh at them, but I find them uncomfortable to watch. I had a friend in college who had the same reaction to any comedy where things went "haywire" at some point do to complications and misunderstandings (he would have HATED "Three's Company").

      I guess everyone's comic tastes are different. There is a fine line between "funny" and "squirm-inducing uncomfortableness." I think George Carlin once made a similar observation.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:Eek. Boring by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      No, they already did that. It was called "Joey".

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  15. Woo-hoo! New memes! by ettlz · · Score: 1
    From TFV:
    • There are farmers, there are ranchers.
    • The mainframe is like a factory.
    • Put the farmers into the factory.
  16. Could somebody post the microsoft ones to youtube? by chrnb · · Score: 1

    Could somebody post the microsoft ones to youtube? , as google video doesn't work in a lot of countries, whats that about anyway? its not like google don't have the money for the bandwidth.

    --
    MikMik Baby Organics Mikkaworks
  17. Coffee is for closers! by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

    First prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're FIRED.

    1. Re:Coffee is for closers! by Anonymous+Meoward · · Score: 1

      Nice to see a "Glenngary Glenn Ross" ref. Mod parent up please! (And rent the movie already.)

      Seriously, though: My younger brother was in sales for a while, and he claims that this speech adequately reflects the attitude. Which is why he left that line of work forever.

      --
      --- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
  18. Re:Could somebody post the microsoft ones to youtu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Politics, dude. It's not always about how much money Google can throw at someone.

  19. ReBoot by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    And here I was expecting to see Phong as David Brent.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  20. Get a Mac by mbeckman · · Score: 1

    If the mainframe were still useful, why would you be able to emulate one on a Mac? http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/