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Indian State Encourages Microsoft Removal
cultrhetor writes "The New York Times reports that the communist government in the Indian state of Kerala is trying to remove Microsoft from its public institutions, as part of a campaign against monopolistic corporations. From the article: 'schools and public offices across the state are being encouraged to install free software systems instead of purchasing Microsoft's Windows programs. "It is well-known that Microsoft wants to have a monopoly in the field of computer technology. Naturally, being a democratic and progressive government, we want to encourage the spread of free software," M. A. Baby, the state's education minister, said by telephone.' The government is not banning Microsoft, but it is actively encouraging all 12,500 public schools in the state to install Linux."
Revenge is sweet but we should be careful as to not let any one linux company become the next microsoft.
"Remember, when downloading free software, you're downloading communism."
Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
Except that they're not actually banning the use of Microsoft software, just encouraging public institutions not to use it. That's not anything like forcing private citizens to use one or other bit of software.
Freedom is not increased by mere diminuation of government. Anarchy is freedom for the strong and slavery for the weak.
Kerala is ruled by an ELECTED communist government within an overall governmental framework that is not communist. Private enterprise is alive and well in Kerala. Kerala also has the highest literacy rate in India (95%) and a lot of technically skilled people.
like the recent ridiculous coke and pepsi ban.
You're kidding - coke & pepsi were found (by a private lab) to have contained a pesticide called malathion.
Is it really communism to want pesticides out of foods?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
The US is a fascist state - they like to tell people what they can and cannot do. That's nothing to be proud of.
No, it's not a "communist state". It's a state in India (with the same constitution and political system as the rest) whose democratically elected coalition government is led by a party called the "Communist Party of India (Marxist)". Look it up (say here) if you like.
The ban on Coca-Cola and Pepsi came after an NGO reported dangerously high levels of pesticide in them, although it is possible that there were other reasons.
Damn commies! damn slashdot for taking this long to give us some really commies to complain about!
Actually I guess this is gonig to be fun watching people's head spin.. open source good, microsoft bad, but hang on, is communist open source good or bad? Actually Kerala is governed through a parliamentary system of representative democracy, they chose their current political leaders, no totalitarian dictators here. They just prefer communist representatives... Sounds like it's not all a bed of roses but it's in pretty good shape for an Indian state by the accounts I've come across (and a damn nice place to visit as a tourist according to several of my friends).
In communist Kerala... Linux installs you
sorry, had to be done
And isn't an allegedly democractic nation complaining about what another nation's population has democratically elected, kinda .... hypocritical? Or is it only 'real democracy' when people choose American style, braindead capitalism, even if the population has to be bound, gagged and drugged before they make the 'right' choice?
And you've missed the point. It isn't just that they are elected, it is also that the overall framework is not communist, so even a government dominated by communists cannot impose a truly communist state. Private property and private enterprise exist in Kerala, which they would not in a communist system, and the state government does not control the economy the way it would in a communist system.
Even if the reason for the ban on Coke and Pepsi is hostility to large, multinational corporations, that doesn't make Kerala communist. There are lots of Greens, for example, who are certainly not communist, who are hostile to such corporations. There are also other possible reasons for the ban. One is that if they think that the levels of toxic chemicals in Coke and Pepsi products are too high, it makes sense to ban sales entirely, not just in schools. Even if adults aren't at risk (and they may think they are), kids drink soft drinks outside of school.
Kerala is ruled by an ELECTED communist government within an overall governmental framework that is not communist.
Why call it communism when it is clearly social-democracy?
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Uh, because they contain harmful and dangerous pesticides?
Now explain why the democratic, free-market US not only bans marijuana (which has never been shown to be harmful or addictive), but even bans forms of hemp that do not contain the hallucinogenic substance (THC) in marijuana.
Coke and Pepsi in the US and WEST won't contain the pesticides. The issue was the use of pesticide contaminated water in the LOCAL manufacturing plants... hence the ban. Rich
What gives MS the right to maintain market share and consequently leech money out of india.
It makes absoloutely no sense for the indian government to use software sold by a foreign corporation when a local company can provide and support an open source based solution. Any profit that local company makes, will ultimately be taxed by the government, as will their staff, so a chunk of the money the government spends comes right back to them. Plus it helps keep jobs locally, and any improvements they make can also be used by other government departments without additional cost to them.
It makes absoloutely no sense for the indian government to keep giving huge amounts of money to a foreign corporation, when there's a local alternative. Infact, not using the local alternative is pretty irresponsible and harmfull to the local economy.
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Yes, it's very important to make sure that we throw in the word "communist" because that puts the whole article in perspective. Just saying "the Indian state of Kerala" would have horribly skewered the story.
Pretty blatant attempt at negative association. It's so fucking obvious, it's embarrasing.
From TFA, "The news will further unsettle foreign investors in this state."
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Interpretation, spin!
Here is a more balanced and fact-based treatment : http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story
The New York times seems to be trying to stir up "Fear, Anxiety and doubt". The government is not "Communist" but democratic socialist, like the UK's ruling party and much of the EU, Latin America and many other places.
In Kerala, they are replacing one western Operating System (illegal copies of Windows), with another western operating system (legal licences of Linux). After Microsoft went there and demanded lots of money for no source code and no local language support from their dialect, and Richard Stallman went there and offered full source code and a free system that had already been translated into their local dialect.
Why this should panic investors? Cola is after all very bad for you, why should Indians have to become clones of us fat, sugar-high westerners?
Kerala has done very well without help from the western elites and will carry on doing so. FUD or no FUD.
My little Linux and tech blog
Yes. Kerala particularly (and sadly) has a problem with over-education of the population compared to the number of skilled jobs. Their education system is exceptional, but often people can't find relevant employment afterwards.
I met a fisherman on the Keralan coastline, fishing with the villagers using a technique 1000s of years old. He had a degree and masters in informatics, could develop in Java and others, and spoke four languages. OSS is an amazing solution here. The government can soak up some of the highly skilled people and kick start an industry, rather than just hand all their cash overseas. In the western world, time is expensive, so it is often preferable to buy in software rather than put in development effort. In india, the dividing line is moved much further across. Skilled labour is comparatively much cheaper, so a wider range of tasks are suitable to be done in house.
the communist government in the Indian state of Kerala
In fact, this decision has nothing to do with the specific government being communist or not, and I welcome this decision, although I have nothing to do with India whatsoever. But, as wonderful western objective journalism rules expect, how nice it is to insert that word in there so as to inflate a latent (or not) hostility right in the beginning towards whatever might come in the following text. Instead of just saying Kerala's state government decided to encourage this and that. These days, I've just become really sensitive to slight (or not so slight) political overtones.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
And isn't an allegedly democractic nation complaining about what another nation's population has democratically elected, kinda .... hypocritical?
What you're missing is, they're stupid and we're much smarter. In fact, everyone abroad is, I noticed, pathetically stupid. After scientific and military analysis, we found out this is due to lack of "smartness" in other countries, which results in truly utter stupidity.
However we're not egotistical and we've devised a plan to bring our smartness in other countries against their will (since they are too stupid to request it themselves, it's a side effect). As you can assess, it's not about hypocricy at all. It's all about generosity and caring.
The differences between distros is mostly superficial. If you master one you master them all. The knowledge in Linux is highly reusable.
I sure hope they try them all and uses what fits them the best.
HTTP/1.1 400
About the best you can say is that the jury is still out on the matter.
Perhaps, but in that case why the fuck is non-thc-rich HEMP illegal? It doesn't have any health issues.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Well, they didn't ban Microsoft, and if they did they'd only be making a prudent decision anyway. Microsoft has held back computing in the West for 20 years; why let it hold India back too? Plus, of course, Microsoft embody the anti-capitalist bogyman far better than some communist local government. Capitalism only works when government intervenes to prevent monopolies growing to the point where they can control the market. Once that point is reached capitalism breaks down, which is what all western companies want. The perfect situation for a western company is to have no competition and customers who have to pay whatever you tell them to. Enron in California is the ultimate example of the perfect western company from the point of view of the owners.
Microsoft would dearly like to be in the same situation as Enron was before it got busted; does your desire to sell your country to the West really go so far as to want that?
I think you have a very distorted view of exactly how business in the West works and, more importantly, how western businesses view your country. You are a market to be milked, nothing more. The companies involved will happily collude to screw you and your countrymen to the wall. If it means a few Bhopals or the total loss of control of the power generation system, or the sale of all your fresh water to factories resulting in famine in rual areas, then they care not a jot.
I know this because I live in the west and they have done these things here. Now most of them are illegal, so they are off to suck you dry before you get wise. A few million dollars in bribes to officials can save them billions off their bottom line, so they will do it. Once they own the government, you'll be praying for communists or anyone else to do something about it. Come to Britain and see what it's like to have a government totally controlled by big business. Fraud and corruption are rife while education, health, housing, and employment are collapsing around us and the electorate can do nothing about it because of the gerrymandering that keeps a party with a third of the vote in absolute power with a vast majority in parliament.
Or go to America, where the entire cabinet is made up of unelected oil company directors. Literally tens of thousands of people have died, and more die every day, because these represetatives of western business that you are so worried about upsetting are pursuing their business agendas using tanks and missiles. They are also supporting Pakistan's development of WMD which may one day be used on you. They are doing these things not because they hate you but because it makes them money. Lots of money. Nothing else matters.
As for you, to them you are just cheap labour. By undermining the employment market in their home countries, western businesses can use you to increase the gap in wages between the people who produce their products and the massive salaries they award themselves. As long as you depend on the West to build your economy instead of using your own resources you will never be anything more than a well-dressed slave.
India has natural resources, plenty of people, and a tradition of education and technical skill that a country like America can only dream of. What the hell do you need us for? Get yourself some self-respect and make your own software, your own computers, your own soft drinks; your own future.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Anyone against Microsoft must be a communist.
The UK's government is neither socialist nor particularly democratic. After selling out the Labour party, ditching Clause Four and receiving votes from rather less than a quarter of the population, Tony Blair is basically carrying on with Thatcherism ..... except that people let him get away with it, simply because he is not Thatcher.
Did I mention that he also licks G.W.Bush's arse?
The only reason the UK hasn't been booted out of the EU a long time ago is the hope that we might join the Euro. It would then be economically viable for the Euro, rather than the US dollar, to be used as the principal currency for trade in crude oil. However, despite the clear and obvious benefits to the majority of the population {lower prices, no more getting fleeced by bureaux de change when travelling abroad} the Murdoch-owned media {under the influence of the carpetbaggers who stand to lose most from the adoption of the Euro} has managed to hoodwink people into believing that using the same coin as our continental cousins would somehow compromise Britain's "sovereignty" despite not being able to provide an adequate definition of what sovereignty actually means.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
"the Communist government in India's southern state of Kerala "
It is a democrtically elected coalition government in Kerala, led by a Communist party. And communism has no bearing on the discussion.
"The Education Ministry has an annual budget of 40 million rupees, or $1.86 million, to promote computer technology among the one million students"
One US dollar is about 45 Indian rupees or thereabouts. So, 40 million rupees would be less than a million dollars.
"Financial, rather than ideological, reasons may be at the root of the state's decision to promote free software."
Again, not true. People in Kerala have been using computers since the mid '80s actually. The VSSC (Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre) in Trivandrum, the capital of Kerala has lots of Sun graphic workstations supplied by Wipro in the late '80s. Many public sector undertakings, banks and the Railways have been users of Unix based systems for decades now. Many companies in India have realised that it's a total waste of time, money and effort to invest in Microsoft, Oracle and Cisco equipment and their closed-source zero-innovation ideologies for their computing needs.
The Indian branch of the Free Software Foundation is located in Kerala, again because of the high literacy rates, and the forward-thinking, proud and practical people of Kerala. Even if Windows Vista is released free for all the students in Kerala, they would not be inclined to waste their time.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
How much more support does someone using a Linux PC use than someone using a Windows one? I would suggest that the difference for the average office worker, the difference is zero, or less.
Why? A word processor is that, no more and no less. A web browser should just work. Email is email, whatever you are running. And so on...
I would suggest that people need less support once things are up and running. They need exactly the same training to get started. The technicians who set up or image the PCs in the first place will likely have an easier time too. Ubuntu, for example, is a LOT easier and faster to install than XP. It doesn't need hand-holding anti-virus software it is far better at network updates and is a lot more secure from the start.
But many/most(?) people here knew this anyway.I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Communisim is bad because it goes against human nature, and therefore is doomed to failure in the long run.
I strongly disagree. Communism works and has worked for as long as human history can record it. It is not against human nature for multiple people to cooperate for the benefit of all of them.
Therefore, in order to maintain a communist system, one must eventually use force.
This is also untrue. One example of communism is the nuclear family. Several people pool their resources and share a home, food, chores, etc. If one wants to leave, there is no reason they need to be forced to stay.
But that's typical of most, if not all, utopian philsophies. You set out to establish a utopia, an ideal system, a man-made paradise where all is good and evil is vanquished. But next thing you know, you find yourself enforcing that utopia at the point of a gun, or are refusing people to leave the utopia after they've become disenchanted.
You're making a fatal misjudgment. "Utopian philosophies" don't fail. Extremism fails. Every economy in the world is a blend of capitalism, communism, and socialism. Trying to eradicate any of these is an extreme and is what results in horrific failure, historically.
Fortunately, most utopias remain small (cults) so they harm only to the small number of people that were misfortunate enough to join them. Communists, on the other hand, tried to impose their utopia on vast numbers of people, to great harm.
There is nothing harmful about communism and nothing about it that implies it has to impose itself on large numbers of people. Communes have existed for thousands of years and are still chugging along just fine. The problem with communism, is that it becomes less and less effective the larger the communist cell grows. Moreover, since it necessarily concentrates decision making, it is more prone to authoritarian abuse than competitive systems.
The real discussion is the proper balance of communism, capitalism, and socialism within a given society. Communist cells compete in a capitalist economy against one another and everyone gives some to help those in need. In the US right now, we don't have socialized health care or drug treatment. We don't have progressive inheritance taxes. Our communist cells are mostly family units, although we also have some tightly knit communities in the form of communes, monasteries, and co-ops. The cell size is shrinking as more and more families become single parent affairs and as extended families spread out and break up.
If you look at the quality of living around the world, it suggests the US has too little socialism, and probably too small of communist cells for optimal efficiency.
Taking this discussion to the main topic, this article is simply another example of Communist government trying to impose a utopia on the citizens.
Ummm, how do you figure? These are people with communist leanings, but not working within a communist cell at all. They are a capitalist economy as much as the US is. Communism has absolutely no bearing on this decision at all. Also, they're not imposing anything. They suggested, but did not order the socialized education system to move away from a company that is a monopoly and which removes the advantages of capitalism, they wish to enjoy. To summarize, this was a bunch of people with communist leanings, directing the socialized part of their economy, to move towards more capitalism. A real capitalist would be overjoyed to hear it.