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When Is a Con Not a Con?

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the ethical-dilemmas-of-modern-life dept.

From the journals, here's some food for thought: Does a "crime" committed in an alternate world have any ramifications in the "real" world? Case in point is this article from the Gamers With Jobs site outlining the exploits of one Dentara Rask, a character in CCP's Eve Online massively multiplayer online world. According to the the article, Dentara Rask ran a Ponzi scheme within the game, amassing a large amount of on-line wealth (700 billion ISK), and then bragging about it. The question is posed: since a Ponzi scheme in real life is a punishable criminal offense, what about when it happens in a MMORPG? Assuming there are no rules within the game environment to prevent this, how would you go about punishing someone in the real world for something they did in an artificial one? And can they be punished?

10 of 441 comments (clear)

  1. Cheating in video games by nosredna · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Trying to get any kind of RL punishment for this would be like calling the cops because somebody stole a stack of $500s during a game of Monopoly.

    1. Re:Cheating in video games by Ours · · Score: 5, Funny

      Damn right. Next thing they'll talk about puting in prison people who shoot each other in the game. Hey, murder is illegal isn't? Then why would a virtual scam be any different?

      --
      "You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
    2. Re:Cheating in video games by Znork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Except these online currencies end up being worth real money, do they not?"

      No. There is no actual scarcity and no central bank backing the currency, nor any financial controls. The same applies to any items and other 'valuables' in those games; any particular scarcity of any particular item is purely artificial and can be instantly changed at the whim of the company (or any less than honest admin or someone exploiting the game).

      The lack of scarcity based value of course doesnt mean you cant pay to avoid actually playing the game (altho anyone actually paying to not play the game should seriously consider not playing the game for free and doing something else instead).

      "So it could, arguably, be more like stealing the chips from a poker game."

      Casinos back the chips. Most MMORPG's do not back their currencies.

    3. Re:Cheating in video games by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As I understand it, Las Vegas doesn't look kindly on that and you can go to jail.

      Because it's not the same thing. When you go into a casino and purchase chips, you and the casino have an understanding that the chips are merely placeholders for real money, and are exchangeable as such within that casino only by the bearer. Thus, if you steal chips from the casino or from another player it's treated the same as if you took actual money, since there was that pre-agreed understanding that the casino will unconditionally buy the chips back at their face value regardless of who presents them. It's rather like stealing a bearer-only check - the check itself is not currency, but it is understood to represent it.

      There is no such understanding regarding currencies in an online game, and the poster that compared it to stealing Monopoly money is exactly correct. The only difference is that there aren't many people willing to pay real money for Monopoly scrip, and thus it has a correspondingly low resale value in the real world. If someone is so wrapped up in some damn game that they're willing to spend real money just to increase their standing, that sounds to me like a problem for a psychiatrist, not the courts.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  2. someone is missing the point of games by oohshiny · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He violated the rules of a game. If the game is part of legal gambling, then that may be a crime. But this is presumably not a gambling operation. So, if it's not a gambling operation, then violating the rules is roughly like cheating at Scrabble or Monopoly.

    In any case, the appropriate punishment for virtual fraud is to demand virtual restitution from the virtual character and put the virtual character into virtual prison. That is, unless the virtual world is supposed to be lawless or anarchic, in which case he did exactly what he was supposed to.

    1. Re:someone is missing the point of games by Idaho · · Score: 5, Informative

      He violated the rules of a game.

      No, he didn't. As others also pointed out, there is nothing in the Eve Online EULA or in the game mechanics that forbids what this guy has done. There is no "exploiting" of bugs or broken game mechanics going on here. "Exploiting" of stupid people, sure, but that's a different matter.

      What *is* explicitly forbidden by the EULA however, is converting in-game money to real money. That is a bannable offense.

      --
      Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
  3. wtf? by xophos · · Score: 5, Informative

    It`s a game. And the scam was clearly inside the rules of the game. So i see no need for discussion here.

  4. Boba style by EvilXTC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The best way to deal with something like this is to pretend that it is real (in game of course) and deal with it the way that the game world would. How about bounty hunting? How about military/mafia recruiting players to hunt him down? Keep it a game. If people fall for a scam in a game, get back at him in the game. Don't suspend his account. That's just lame. I'm sure that not many people would continue to risk their characters' well being and those that do have it coming. Also, I think that would make an interesting off shoot for people on level a billion and have nothing better to do than start a war; new game content dynamically created.

  5. This is the whole point of EVE by MORB · · Score: 5, Informative

    EVE is a PvP game where players are pitted against each others. Unlike most other MMOs, however, it goes way beyond killing each others.

    CCP made a lot of efforts to setup complex and realistics economics in their game for the sole purpose of making all kind of swindling possible.

    People ripping each others of money, corporate politics, corporate spying, economic war, thief, and of course murder are possible and encouraged in EVE. The whole game is built to enable these things to occur, and it's what people playing that game seek.

    So why on earth should it be punished? You can't complain about getting conned in EVE anymore that you can complain about getting slaughtered in UT2004, because it's the reason why you play the game in the first place.

  6. You've totally missed the boat. by raehl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OK, people are missing some very key pieces of information here.

    - No ISK was stolen from anyone. *ALL* of the ISK belongs to CCP, the company that runs the game. It is bits on their servers and part of the user agreement is all of the in-game objects belong to CCP, not the players, and this is something you therefore must agree to when you play.

    - When you play the game, everyone agrees to play by the rules. One of the rules is that the vast majority of in-game schemes are LEGAL. Player A took a legal action, and as a result of legal action A, the game master (CCP) reallocated the in-game objects from other players to player A. If you were the other players, tough, you played the game, you 'lost'.

    - It is just plain logically silly to accept that players can blow up each other's ships and not accept that players can convince other players to hand over their in-game money. What's the difference? I'm flying around and somebody blows me up, you wouldn't suggest I call up the cops and file a vandalism report would you? So if someone convinces me to give them in-game money, and then doesn't pay me back, that's suddenly a crime?

    --
    paintball