U.S. Arrests Online Gambling Company Chairman

imaginaryelf writes "Reuters reports that U.S. authorities have arrested Peter Dicks, the chairman of U.K. based online sports betting company Sportingbet Plc, while he was passing through Dallas. Just two months ago, the CEO of another U.K. based online sports betting company, BetOnSports, was arrested on U.S. soil as well. They are both charged with violating the 1961 Federal Wire Act, which can be broadly interpreted as declaring all forms of online gambling illegal in the U.S. Is online gambling the Alcohol Prohibition of the 21st century?"

Comments

Yes!

[Quaoar]

Now my $1000 bet that Peter Dicks would be arrested doesn't look quite so foolish...call my bookie!

Common sense

[kooky45]

If you live outside of the US and have done something that the US have made illegal then don't go there.

Re:Common sense

[AceCaseOR]

IANAL, but I think the prosecutors will make an argument that Mr. Dicks knowingly provided a service that was illegal in the US, to US citizens who were on US soil at the time. On the one hand, it's a clever way of getting the guy. On the other hand, it could set up some dangerous precidents. Getting a hacker under US law because the server he penetrated was on US soil is one thing. However, the strategy I think they're going to use could, in theory, be used by the **AA against, say, The Pirate Bay.

Re:Common sense

[ScrewMaster]

Insightful? I think not. Here, let me fix it for you: "If you live out side of the {insert any country here} and have done something that the {insert any country here} has made illegal then don't go there.

Our government isn't in the habit of arresting foreign nationals for activities that are perfectly legal in their country of origin. But if he was providing illegal services to U.S. citizens then he put himself at risk. Why that is such a shock to you people I don't know, unless you just need another excuse to America-bash. People complain bitterly when a Google or a Yahoo complies with the laws of another country when they disagree with those laws, fully expecting that those companies should simply break that country's laws with impunity. And maybe they should: but the principle works both ways ... if you break our laws, even over the Internet, we have the right to subject you to those laws when you're on our territory. That's how it is anywhere in the world.

Now, having said that ... I'd rather our government kept its grubby little paternalistic fingers out of our lives and let us give all our hard-earned cash to crooked foreigners if we so choose. One of the most cherished rights that Americans have always enjoyed is the right to go to Hell in our own way. But unfortunately we have a lot of people in power over here that think they know better than we do what is best for us, want to force their pattern for living on everyone else.

Re:Common sense

[tomhudson]

Don't laugh - a lot of people are paying extra so they won't have a stopover in the US on the way to another destination, just to avoid the hassles, even if they have never done anything wrong.

This is just going to make the situation worse. The losers are the US air carriers, and services based in the US.

Re:Common sense

[DJ Rubbie]

You are right on the money.

I lived in Toronto for 13 years, and I decided to go to New Zealand to visit some friends and see how the place is like for a longer term basis. Quickest way to get from Toronto, Canada to Auckland, New Zealand is probably take a flight from Toronto to LA, then from LA to Auckland. Seeing how soem of my muslim friends got treated in the US (more like his parents, who are elderly), me being "non-white", more tech savvy (I brought my computer along, I love my Shuttle box), I don't want to take the chance of having dealing with American customs and risk having my data inspected, so I took the long way, went to Hong Kong (I was born there), which was nice because I got to see my relatives and do some shopping, before leaving for Auckland a week later. My return journey will be the same, and I will never step foot in America again, even as a stop over (aside from the Anchorage technical stopover, but we never were allowed to get off the plane, which is fine with me).

Even though the whole journey is about 8 hours longer in total flight time, it's worth it for me. Cathay Pacific gets my business also because they are one of the best airlines in the world. The price was right too, my mom's travel agent was able to secure the flight I took (round trip) for only CND$2200, which is definitely unbeatable. My parents told me they recently took a flight with Air Canada from Toronto to Vancover, they said the service was appalling and the staff did not know what to do, and the food and flight was expensive (CND$800 per person). It's absolutely disgraceful that North American airlines are completely backwards and behind in terms of service (given the cost) compared to their Asian counterparts.

Re:Prohibition? Hardly...

[Maclir]

>organised gambling isn't nearly as widespread and deeply rooted in Western culture as consuming alcohol is.

You wanna bet?

Our laws, your country...

[MosesJones]

Its another great example of the US deciding that its perfectly okay to have their laws apply to people from other countries, but the idea of an international criminal court that might try CIA and US Soldiers for torture and crimes against humanity then the answer is no.

Remind me again why people think the US is imperialist?

Re:Our laws, your country...

[b0r1s]

They applied it in the US - if he didn't want to be subject to US laws, all he had to do was not fly into the US. Problem solved.

Re:Our laws, your country...

[A beautiful mind]

So you're saying the server hosting the site somehow flew into the USA?

The only way they could have arrested him legally, if he broke a law in the USA WHILE in the USA.

You cannot break US laws outside the USA, so in the UK what he does is perfectly legal.

Why isn't the british diplomacy concerned about the kidnapping of a UK citizen? In the 18th century they would have sent the gunboats already.

Re:Our laws, your country...

[slarabee]

And the reason he wasn't arrested during the previous ten years of the gambling site's existence? He has passed through the United States multiple times in the past decade while participating in this orgy of criminal vice. He has even held press conferences in the United States during this time. Officials in the federal government were well aware Carruthers was in their jurisdiction yet have done nothing.

Could it have something to do with a vote dealing with a ban on Internet gambling coming up in the legislature in the next couple weeks? Could it have something to do with the fact Carruthers has been a vocal opponent of the upcoming bill. Strange that. The man is arrested based on his involvement in running an Internet gambling company. Yet referencing the vote on banning Internet gambling requires using the future tense.

Perhaps using a 1961 law that only questionably relates to the Internet and even more questionably relates to an individual operating out of a different country is not quite so sound...

http://www.reason.com/sullum/072606.shtml

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/09/sullum_ on_internet_gambling_ar.php

Re:JFK, not DFW

[Quaoar]

Wouldn't be the first time Dallas screwed over Kennedy...

U.S. a no go zone

[ConfusedSelfHating]

In the near future, the United States of America may be a country that non-Americans fear to travel to. With the DMCA, the Patriot Act, association with gambling sites, corporate deals with Iran, corporate deals with Cuba ... you just simply do not know whether or not you will be arrested when entering the United States. If your non-American company did business with Cuba, could you be arrested? If you engaged in fair use of media in your country, could you be arrested for DMCA violations?

You won't know until you are on American soil.

Re:U.S. a no go zone

[syousef]

I stopped wanting to go to the US a long time ago. My last name is Yousef and I'm very arabic looking. Never mind that my family's background is Christian not Muslim, that I don't believe in God, or that the work I do required security checks and clearance before I was employed. Last nail in the coffin was when they started fingerprinting everyone. I don't want to be treated like a criminal and randomly finger printed and searched all the way there and back. That's not something I want to do for a good job let alone for a holiday.

In 1998 I went to the US to do training and none of this was a concern. The programmers boot camp I went to sucked by on one of my two weekends off in the 10 week hell I went to the Kennedy Space Center and I loved it! I always wanted to go back and take a look at the Grand Canyon. Now I wouldn't go if they paid me.

Fuck 9/11. Fuck the terrorists. Fuck the people who've used it as a power grab. Fuck the blind sheep who'll let them until its too late. I've had a gut full of this bad behaviour from all sides. ...And if anyone wants to mod this as flamebait, that's fine be my guest, but before you do read the definition of a flame. I'm not saying these things just to piss people off. This is genuinely how I feel, and I'm not alone.

still wonder how this is illegal for a non-residen

[mabhatter654]

I still wonder how this is illegal for a non-resident, hosted off shore, with no servers in the US at all. Now it should probably be illegal for US citizens.. many individual states have laws against gambling in any form...but that would be a state issue to their citizens. I sort of understand how the Federal Wire laws make state crimes illegal because you "used" a federal regulated wire service, but I can't understand how they can arrest citizens of other countries for running the service legally in their own country.

Of course, were the USA we can do what ever we want... I often wonder how we'd react if say Bill Gates was arrested in Communist China for being an "obscenely rich capitalist".. .I'm sure that's still illegal over there, and Microsoft sells to China.. so why should the reds take a chance at getting him? It's the same basic principle.

Re:I dont see the logic in this

[Dachannien]

WHEREAS ALL they NEED to do and HAD to do is to bar all access from u.s. to that u.k. site

If the US government did that, then you'd be complaining about censorship.

The problem is that this guy and his company accepted money from US citizens who were on US soil in exchange for providing a service that is illegal in the US. It would be trivial for him to refuse credit card transactions for cards where the address on record is in the US, and at least then he'd have plausible deniability. Of course, doing so destroys most of his market, so it's easy to see why he wouldn't do that.

Re:I dont see the logic in this

[MBCook]

He let's Americans gamble on his site, so he lets them break the law. That's illegal. At least that what I'm guessing their logic is. My guess is that their claim to him is a little tenuous to say the least. I bet he refused to bar access from US betters. The US's stance is hardly unknown, especially if you are in that industry.

I think that "online gambling is prohibition" comment is rather ridiculous. Online gambling is something people do from home, where one of the big things about prohibition is that it removed a common social activity (going to a bar with friends and to meet people). They are nothing alike except that they are both bans on something popular, and (are likey to get) overturned.

Don't forget that there is a REASON online gambling is still illegal. While that act can be intrepreted that way, Congress could have easily changed that by passing a law. However, don't think that all the casinos in Vegas and elsewhere like the idea of online gambling. That could take away a LOT of a their business if it was legalized. I'd be amamzed if they weren't pouring out money to keep online gambling illegal.

Like driving on the left hand side of the road?

[EmbeddedJanitor]

It is nuts to arrest somebody for a "crime" committed elsewhere (where it is not a crime). For example, in many parts of the world civilians are not permitted to own or carry handguns. Should somebody be arrested on landing in the UK because they happened to own/carry a handgun while in the US?

This is either harrassment or just the US thinking it has rights to push the rest of the world around.

Re:Like driving on the left hand side of the road?

[operagost]

It is nuts to arrest somebody for a "crime" committed elsewhere (where it is not a crime). For example, in many parts of the world civilians are not permitted to own or carry handguns. Should somebody be arrested on landing in the UK because they happened to own/carry a handgun while in the US?

No, but if they sold and shipped the handgun to someone who lives in the UK they might be.

Re:I dont see the logic in this

[TrappedByMyself]

Well, go to betonsports.com

"To contact BetonSports Customer Service please call toll free 1-866-481-3057. You may also send email requests to:
customer_service@betonsports.com
Customer Service hours are Monday to Friday, 10am - 10pm EST. "

Hmm, looks like a US number and a US timezone there. May be UK based, but they are definitely targeting business to the US

Re:I dont see the logic in this

[mabhatter654]

actually, credit card companies do not allow charges to known gambling sites... there are ways around... "paypal" type things for gambling, so the actual gambling site would not have "knowladge" that the person was from the US. Also, it's not for an out of the country site to abide by US law.. that's for US citizens to do on their own. Compare this issue to downloading libCSS from off shore, downloading MP3 from AllmyMP3 in Russia, or hosting porn in a friendly state.

In the last three cases we expect the citizen to follow the law, because to restrict or monitor access would be UnAmerican. Gambling is a "vice" crime so to the law enforcement "religion" it's different. The fundamental problem is that it's easier for the govt to collar these guys illegally than it is to fix the real problem going on in the country. Also, "rightist" state legislatures and law enforcement work very hard to delay, subjorn, etc. the Will of the people to change these backwards laws. For them "Law" is the "religion" and so they should not "compromise" even if the people vote for it.

21st Century Prohibition

[subreality]

Is online gambling the Alcohol Prohibition of the 21st century?

No. Marijuana is the Alcohol Prohibition of the 21st century.

Not the first time

[ReverendLoki]

Remember Dmitry Sklyarov?

Perhaps this is all a fiendish plot to cut down on US tourism...

17 / 135 points

[inviolet]

> L
You are sitting in an airplane seat, in the coach section of an airliner. The airliner is descending.

> I
You are carrying:

• briefcase
• wallet
• cellphone
• car keys
• ticket stub
• sword
• bloody axe

>READ TICKET
I don't see any ticket here.

>READ TICKET STUB
The ticket stub is for an intercontinental flight from Great Britain to Mexico, with a stopover in Dallas.

>DALLAS?
I don't know how to dallas.

>DOES THIS PLANE HAVE A STOPOVER IN DALLAS?
I don't see any plane here.

>LEAVE PLANE
Your seatbelt holds you in the seat, preventing you from standing up.

>OPEN SEATBELT
You cannot open that.

>UNFASTEN SEATBELT
Unfastened.

>LEAVE PLANE
You need to stand up first.

>STAND UP
You are now standing. The passenger sitting next to you looks agitated.

>LEAVE PLANE
The exit doors are locked, as the plane is still in flight.

>FUCK
I don't know how to fuck.
The plane is about to land in Dallas. You are likely to be arrested by a grue.

>ARE THEY GOING TO ARREST ME?
I don't see any they here.

>EXIT
You cannot exit now.
Your sword is glowing faintly.

>QUIT
You cannot quit now.
Your sword is glowing faintly.

Gambling Hypocrisy

[Mr. Lwanga]

The only crime the offshore gaming companies committed is competing against US based brick and mortar casinos. If you travel out of a state that doesn't have gambling to a state that does, isn't the casino enabling an act that couldn't occur in the gambler's home state? The gaming corporations don't want more competition (they spent alot of money in California to restrict Indian Casinos) and the federal and state government don't want to lose revenue from offshore gambling.

Re:JFK, not DFW

[slashbob22]

What? Too soon?

No. The War Against Drugs

[nead]

Is the Prohibition of the 21st Century.

Re:No, not gambling...

[rainman_bc]

If a smoker wants to smoke in a public park, let them. It's a public place meant for everyone. You can't please everyone.

If a smoker comes though and blows smoke in my general direction, it should be considered socially acceptable for me to go fart in that smoker's space too.

Thing is, my space belongs to me. I find having cigarette smoke blown in my direction akin to invading my space. I find it more disgusting than the smell of fart, and more harmful to my health.

I think we should start a campaign where we go and fart in smoker's spaces.