Atlantis Expected to Launch Today

PreacherTom writes "Following recent delays, NASA makes its fifth attempt to get Atlantis off the launchpad at 11:15 a.m. EDT today. NASA stopped Friday's launch try only 45 minutes before its scheduled departure for a faulty fuel tank sensor: the same glitch that thwarted two previous missions. The launch delay cost NASA $616,000, and if the mission is scrubbed again, the space agency must abandon for a few weeks its efforts to send the shuttle off on a construction mission to the International Space Station."

Comments

Gone

[Moby Cock]

I just watched it launch.

Re:Gone

[sharkman67]

Yup,

Looks like a perfect launch. Just saw the main fuel tank seperate. Godspeed astronauts!

Re:Gone

[Anonymous Coward]

Space Shuttle Vista lift off has occurred at 11:15am EST. And I thought they'd only launch it on Patch Tuesday!

Re:Gone

[Anonymous Coward]

did one see some 'foam' breakaway post lift off this time!

A little late there cappy...

[DrunkenTerror]

n/t

t minus 9 minutes

[lordperditor]

according to the clock on the nasa site in 9 minutes we have lift off. god speed.

Re:t minus 9 minutes

[lordperditor]

ahhh no my mistake that is showing MET, it left 9 mins ago :-)

It's up!

[strredwolf]

It's launched, tank's seperated, Atlantis is in space.

A little late... it already launched...

[Fallen Kell]

Just thought I would let everyone know that it launched already.

Late?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should keep the TV on while posting "will be launched" announcements?

Re:Late?

[Nick Driver]

None of the local network TV broadcast stations here bothered to break away from regular programming to cover the launch. They all suck.

Re:Late?

[accessdeniednsp]

Welcome to America :-/

Re:Late?

[w33t]

Break away and interrupt my Jerry Falwell?

Are you some kind of crazy, boy!?

Re:Late?

[Skater]

Wasn't the original idea behind the Shuttle that it would be launching so often it wouldn't be a special event? :) I know that goal is now impossible, but it's still kind of funny that you'd be mad about a lack of coverage.

Re:Late?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want it that bad, there's channel 376 on DirecTV or whatever it is on Dish (NASA TV). Or the internets. Or wait til Katie fluff covers it on Monday.

So...

[SanityInAnarchy]

They found a working ZPM?

I don't even like the show that much, but to me, Atlantis == Stargate, especially when I'm just waking up.

Re:So...

[The MAZZTer]

They've had one for over a year now, but they've never actually used their stardrive to date.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

It requires three ZPMs to power the star drive for hyperspace.

Besides, last night they drained the ZPM to full entropy and it's no longer usable. Although how they released 75% of a ZPM's energy in thirty seconds without blowing a fuse is a bit of a mystery. And how three ZPMs were used to blow up Replicantis in orbit around the Atlanetean homeworld without destroying the entire solar system is a mystery. But the writers for season 2 and 3 of Atlantis and 9 and 10 of SG-1 haven't seemed to want to bother much with intriguing story lines, continuity, personable and real characters (General Landry, Tayla and the imaginatively named Ronin are about as deep as a cheese wheel), or anything else that made their brand of Science Fiction good for eight years.

Now SG-1 is an action show with MP5s and Uzis spraying bullets and killing entire SG teams like they're all wearing red shirts with no one batting an eye with starships and transporters and FTL always saving the day at the last second. The characters have become hollow caricatures of themselves. It's become self important science fiction masturbation instead of a story about people on Earth working to protect and make Earth better.

Stargate Atlantis lost everything it had going for it as soon as it made contact with Earth again. Now instead of roughing it on their own and struggling to make their way in a new galaxy they can just zip home and back in a few days and zipedeedoodah through the gate if they need to evacuate back. Instead of being forced to make new, geniune plot lines they're just rehashing the same crap from SG-1 (the trust? the IOC?) and haven't made a single discovery that's apparently worth sharing. You'd think that with the lost city of the Ancients and all their Ancient technology and a working ZPM for a year and a half they'd have, I don't know, learned something about their FTL drives, their weapons systems, their energy generation, their cloaking technology, their shield technology, medical science, nanotechnology, materials development, or gee, anything? Even SG-1 figured out naquadah generators from a 12 year old by the third season.

It seems like a lot of people got a big kick out of the campiness of the 200th episode of SG-1, with everyone saying "Oh, it's just the writers blowing off steam and really letting loose," as though the current writers put any work into their stories. It was supposed to be a joke about everything that's bad about science fiction like inversing the polarity to save the day, but it's SG-1 and Atlantis that have become the joke. Anyone that doubts that only needs to look at golden episodes of SG-1 to see how bad it's been these last two seasons (like the last five of season 8, Revisions, Abyss, Meridian, Absolute Power, 2010, Window of Opportunity, and The Fifth Race)--these days it's always inversing polarity or beaming them out of harm's way. Nothing is ever difficult to accomplish and nothing ever gets accomplished.

It's really too bad, too, because SG-1 was likely the best sci-fi show by consensus and Atlantis had a lot going for it with its initial idea. Now greed and poor decisions have robbed both, and my guess is Atlantis won't last long after SG-1 ends its run this season.

Re:So...

[coleblak]

It's disturbing the longest post in this thread is about a science fiction show and not the actual launch.
You've got a point, though.

Re:So...

[SPQR_Julian]

No, they had Sheppard stand at the bottom, and through his amazing Kirk!God!MarySue!ness, he singlehandedly pushed the shuttle into orbit. Ronan pulled 56,234,980,458 knives from his hair and threw them at the satellites in the way, McKay provided the necessary trajectories, and Teyla bared her midriff. All the while Weir stood there in Mission Control and did... absolutely nothing. Lorne was nowhere to be found.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be a 12 year old girl, not boy.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it would, and I can't tell if you're insinuating I said it was a boy but what I said was "12 year old by the third season." However in typical SG-1 fashion being a woman had nothing to do with success--all her knowledge was artificially gained and she became a retard at the end of the story.

Cost?

[evanbd]

OK, I'll admit I don't understand how that cost is calculated.

Was that money spent on things it wouldn't otherwise have been spent on? IE, is it a marginal cost or just that day's "share" of a fixed cost? Did it have to get taken from some other budget (either within NASA or not)?

NASA accounting always confuses me.

Re:Cost?

[p_trekkie]

You mean the delay cost of $500,000 or so? That number is suspiciously similar to the cost of the fuel/launch, so my guess is that's what they had to pay to empty the shuttle, then fill it again. That amount of money is also accounted for in NASA as a "rouding error." In my aerospace classes, they always told us that for cost accounting, fuel is "free."

Re:Cost?

[evanbd]

Yes, that's what I meant.

I suppose it could well be difficult to pump out the LH2 and actually recover enough of it to be relevant... that stuff is *really* hard to handle.

Now, to be fair, it's not (entirely) unreasonable to ignore the LOX costs... NASA pays a few pennies a pound for it, and it's worlds easier to handle.

Re:Cost?

[ScentCone]

Don't forget that when they schedule a launch, there are a lot of people on the clock that are working longer hours than they might otherwise be. When there's a delay, they've all been on the clock for a long time, and then get to do it again (for example) the next day. Likewise with various contractors, support companies, etc. Keeping all of that spun up and ready is expensive, per day.

Re:Cost?

[cyclone96]

At best, it's a very rough estimate indeed. I don't understand why every story about a launch delay seems to have to include "it cost $XXX" for the delay. They do the same thing for landings at Edwards (which requires transporting the orbiter back to KSC on the NASA 747). Those costs are expected and budgeted for, and in the overall scheme of things - quite small.

While we are at it, the genius that wrote the article also included the following:

If Atlantis cannot lift off on Saturday, it will have to wait at least until late September and even then, NASA will have to waive a post-Sept. 11 rule that says launches must be conducted in daylight so that the spaceship can be photographed for signs of damage.

Post Sept. 11? WTF? That's post COLUMBIA ACCIDENT rule. Wow, that's really bad. Evidentally the news drone at ABC churning out web stories must have been working on a Sept. 11 anniversary piece about the same time and mixed up his disasters....

Atlantis has risen again!

[VegeBrain]

Atlantis just launched? Gee, I thought it was still at the bottom of the ocean.

It went ok.

[catwh0re]

The launch went ok, only one issue with a support system for engine cooling (they were assuming there was water in it.) they cycled it and it's working fine. So it's all good for now.

Flash evaporator

[smthngcrprt726]

hopefully the flash evaporator problems they were reporting (which have since been cleared to my knowledge) dont flare up again either in orbit or re-entry overall a good launch, i still love the views from the external tank looking down and at the shuttle

huh ?

[terrymr]

-10 Timing.

Cheesy, but true

[bgfay]

I just sat at my laptop watching NASA TV (we don't have cable) with my four-year-old and two-year-old explaining as much of the activity as I knew. They got excited and kept gushing "wow!" just at the sight of the shuttle on the pad. When it lifted off, they were both quiet, eyes wide and mouths open. I caught myself with my own mouth open both at the wonder of us going into space and the equally powerful wonder of watching my daughters get this excited about it.

When someone asks me why we have to spend so much money on space exploration, I should have them watch a launch with my daughters. It's all about the thrill of exploration, the daring of it, the wonder of fellow humans climbing up off this planet and touching the stars.

I can't wait to see what we do next.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[avalys]

And why should the government be spending our tax dollars on "the thrill of exploration, the daring of it" and all that? The government's job is not to entertain and amaze us, which seems to be the only purpose of the manned space program. And hell, recently they've failed even at that, instead causing us to gape in amazement at their lax engineering practices.

I'm all for private space exploration, and I can see the justification for government-funded unmanned space exploration, but the government has no business wasting our money on sending people into space just because it's cool and makes you feel warm and fuzzy when you watch a launch.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[yaroze32]

Some of my earliest fondest memories are of the shuttle program, I was like 5-6 years old when Columbia 1st launched, with the white fuel tank. I remember getting up EARLY in the morning to watch the launches. Good Memories.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[linzeal]

See if you can do it yourself, orbiter is a free space flight simulator and there are others less technical but most are out of print since the late 90's.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[Das Modell]

Space has a terrible power.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[terrymr]

See I thought the sole purpose of Entertain and Amaze us. If not why do we have the one we have ?

Re:Cheesy, but true

[accessdeniednsp]

Oh wow! That is so cool, man. It's awesome that you spend that kind of time with them and exposing them to that awesome tech stuff! :) And reading your writing of their reaction... that actually gave me a few chill bumps :) That is amazing. I don't have any little critters of my own, so I can't relate to your experience. But if what I imagine is anywhere close to what you had, then.... wow. That is super super awesome!

I wonder if, in their minds, they may have thought of the shuttle on-pad as a 'toy' of sorts. Then when it lifted off the realization set in *very* fast that "oh.. this is a real thing... oh my." :)

I, too, was watching it with hope and wishes along the lines of 'come on, big money!'

But I'm glad your little ones could see that. Very awesome.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[smart.id]

What do you mean by "we," sir? Are you even from this country? From the likes of your terrible grammar, it appears you can't speak English. Then again, neither can half this country. God damnit!

Re:Cheesy, but true

[jthill]

And why should the government be spending our tax dollars on "the thrill of exploration, the daring of it" and all that?

Because some things that nobody can make any money at are worth doing anyway? Because some of those are beyond the capacity of private enterprise? Because some of those actually produce benefits that would otherwise never be reached?

Re:Cheesy, but true

[ThreeE]

And why should the government be spending our tax dollars on "the thrill of exploration, the daring of it" and all that?

Because the elected administration included it in the budget and the Congress approved it. Good thing too. If you don't like it, cast your vote accordingly -- but mine will cancel yours out.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[bgfay]

My naive answer for the day as to why the government should pay for this sort of thing is that the job of government is to lead. Sometimes leadership requires that we inspire people. The manned space program, even with all its faults, inspires people.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[bgfay]

Actually, they don't think of it as a toy so much as a space ship. Some magical device like out of a cartoon.

My older daughter asked, "are there people on there?" I told her that there were. She said, "it must be cool to ride on a space ship." Yeah, I told her, I imagine it is. "I hope I get to go on that ride someday." I remember hoping the same thing. I hope that she gets the chance without having to come up with the current price of a ticket.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[drsquare]

They probably have the same reaction to watching cartoons, and they're probably cheaper to make.

I can't think of any legitimate reasoning for docking people's hard-earned wages in order to entertain your children with giant fireworks.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[Sloppy]

I can hire someone to draw a cartoon that will out-awe NASA with your daughters, and I bet I can do it for less money.

Impressing people isn't why we passed the 16th Amendment. There may be good reasons to spend everyone's money without asking them what they want, on expensive manned space launches (I hesitate to call it "exploration") but as much as your kids enjoyed watching it, that ain't one of them.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[bark]

I don't think space travel is beyond the capacity of private enterprise... In fact, private enterprise stands to benefit more, make more money, and produce more benefits from space travel than the public sector.

Face it, it only reason "space exploration" is government territory is that the USA wants to turn space into the future battleground. It's more for military reasons than for any of those you listed.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[terrymr]

Ok - I meant See I thought the sole purpose of government *is* to Entertain and Amaze us. If not why do we have the one we have ?

Don't confuse grammer with typing errors.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[RedWizzard]

North America would be a very different place today if certain governments hadn't decided that exploration was very much part of their job.

Re:Cheesy, but true

[jthill]

I don't think space travel is beyond the capacity of private enterprise

"Exploration" is not the same as "travel". The topic is "exploration".

I'm fairly sure the people at JPL will be very surprised to learn their missions are really reconnaissance for the military invasions of Mars and Titan and Wild 2.

I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered it

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, sort of. I'm in the LA area - and only NBC gave even half-assed coverage of the launch (breaking away for a *very* short period, from an unbelievably moromic show for brain-damaged three year olds). All I caught of the launch was the solid rocket boosters falling away, and a few seconds more, before NBC went back to their normal programing. Of course, the awful NBC coverage was just *slightly* better than the coverage offered by the other area broadcasters in the area (who didn't cover the event AT ALL). It's too bad I can't pull all of their broadcast licenses - if I could, I would: dead air would be an improvement over the absolute garbage on television.

Liftoff!

[Eosha]

She made it into orbit successfully. Liftoff was at 11:14:55 Eastern time.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/i ndex.html

$616,000?

[Fallen Kell]

Ok I don't get it. The "delay" caused that? Or do they mean that is the costs that arose to "diagnose/fix" the faults detected? I mean, there is a big difference here. They would have had to "fix" the problem no matter what or just scrap the shuttle, so how does that money become the "costs of the delay", when it is really "the costs for maintaining the shuttle"?

Thank goodness it succeeded

[Wiseman1024]

Thank goodness it succeeded because if it didn't, space development would be halted for dozens of years because of stupid, useless, braindead politicians in charge of a budget almost as large as their ignorance and folly.

A little late on this article

[Peyna]

Posted by CowboyNeal on 09-09-06 11:22 AM
NASA makes its fifth attempt to get Atlantis off the launchpad at 11:15 a.m. EDT today.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[accessdeniednsp]

NASA TV always has it available. www.nasa.gov and it's a link on the main page. You need RealPlayer or Windows Media Player. It streams the whole thing including the Mission Control guy's narration.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[Moby Cock]

You can watch in Quicktime too,

Sounds like gethomeitis

[Anonymous Coward]

"... if the mission is scrubbed again, the space agency must abandon for a few weeks its efforts to send the shuttle off on a construction mission to the International Space Station."

Making decisions under some kind of desperation is a recipe for disaster. For pilots, it's called get-home-itis. It results in pushing one's luck just a little too hard. http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/directline_issues/dl2_leg .htm
IIRC it's what killed JFK Jr. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/transportation/july -dec99/kennedy_7-19.html

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[Moby Cock]

That's a shame. I watch the whole thing on CBC Newsworld. Odd that foreign countries are more interested in the space programs than America.

Launched?

[lorg]

Why didn't they just use the Stargate? Flying to Atlantis is going to take A LONG LONG time!

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[afd8856]

Envy, of course. (/me is 'foreigner')

Well...

[davidwr]

Might want to watch last night's episode.

Re:Well...

[The MAZZTer]

Yeah I just finished watching it.

Dang that's fast

[interstellar_donkey]

It always amazes me how fast the shuttle gets up into space, and how quickly it reaches amazing speeds.

So, I guess the question is "How fast can Atlantis make the Kessel Run?" My gues is at least 30 parsecs.

/. editor to try again to make launch date

[davidwr]

"Following recent delays, CowboyNeal makes its Nth attempt to get a timely Atlantis story off the launchpad before it goes stale. He missed Wednesday's news by almost 2 days and will try to get the announcement of Saturdays launch posted on time. The delay costs CowboyNeal 3 karma points, and if he misses the mark again, the Space Cowboy must abandon editing few weeks while he lets his karma recover.
UPDATED: Sat 11:22AM: He missed the mark.... Again."

Re:/. editor to try again to make launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually that was a post for the previous Atlantis launch. I wonder if it's too early to submit a story for the next launch?

Cynical, but true

[SuperBanana]

When someone asks me why we have to spend so much money on space exploration, I should have them watch a launch with my daughters. It's all about the thrill of exploration, the daring of it, the wonder of fellow humans climbing up off this planet and touching the stars.

Um...not to be cynical, and Slashdotters hate being reminded of these things, but your daughters are in awe because they don't know that:

• It costs $16BN a year to keep NASA running of which $3BN is political pork, and a fair bit goes towards research which is primarily for the purposes of weapons and has nothing to do with the "quest for knowledge".
• The ISS, which this mission supports, is falling apart after just a few years in space. It was supposed to last JUST 10 years after final assembly, and it hasn't even been fully assembled. Failures have ranged from oxygen generators to basic handtools to attitude correction gyros. The price tag was $100BN; that money largely went to our nation's (and other nation's) defense contractors, which build the majority of the hardware NASA uses.
• The "smoke" from the solid rocket engines contains huge amounts of hydrochloric acid.
• One in five of their classmates go hungry at home or at school because their parents can't afford to give them enough food, and the government currently spends slightly more than NASA's budget to feed 7 million children a year a decent lunch. Let's not even get started about basic supply and book shortages. We're supposedly the most powerful nation in the world, but we can't but enough [food in the stomachs / textbooks in the hands] of our children so that they can recieve a sufficient education to support themselves later in life, instead of ending up working at Walmart for minimum wage.

Personally, I don't find any thrill in NASA's "exploration", which seems to consist mostly of "let's see what _______ does in space" and the nation's military and scientific elite (yes, military- many of the people you see up there are military officers) playing. There is no "daring" (save the small chance their shuttle will be destroyed) and they're not touching any stars.

Re:Cynical, but true

[topical_surfactant]

Then, of course, there's the argument that if we don't get off this rock and colonize other (planets, moons), some day those problems you just mentioned will seem trivial compared to the immenent extinction of the human race. Just sayin'.

Re:Cynical, but true

[Anonymous Coward]

some day those problems you just mentioned will seem trivial compared to the immenent extinction of the human race.

Intelligent life is already endangered.

Re:Cynical, but true

[bgfay]

Whoever modded this reply as a troll is way off base. I admitted that my post was the sunny side of the street. This is the other side and we need to keep both of them in mind.

Reminds me of current United States politics, the you're with us or you're against us philosophy. What we need is civil discourse and SuperBanana's post is just that.

Mod it up.

Re:Cynical, but true

[bgfay]

This post keeps getting modded down even though it's rational, well thought out, and well written. Just because I see things differently today doesn't mean I don't want to hear opposition. Here is the post in its entirety:

When someone asks me why we have to spend so much money on space exploration, I should have them watch a launch with my daughters. It's all about the thrill of exploration, the daring of it, the wonder of fellow humans climbing up off this planet and touching the stars.

Um...not to be cynical, and Slashdotters hate being reminded of these things, but your daughters are in awe because they don't know that:

        * It costs $16BN a year to keep NASA running of which $3BN is political pork [usatoday.com], and a fair bit goes towards research which is primarily for the purposes of weapons and has nothing to do with the "quest for knowledge".
        * The ISS, which this mission supports, is falling apart after just a few years in space. It was supposed to last JUST 10 years after final assembly, and it hasn't even been fully assembled. Failures have ranged from oxygen generators to basic handtools to attitude correction gyros. The price tag was $100BN; that money largely went to our nation's (and other nation's) defense contractors, which build the majority of the hardware NASA uses.
        * The "smoke" from the solid rocket engines contains huge amounts of hydrochloric acid [bbc.co.uk].
        * One in five of their classmates go hungry at home or at school because their parents can't afford to give them enough food, and the government currently spends slightly more than NASA's budget to feed 7 million children a year a decent lunch. [usda.gov] Let's not even get started about basic supply and book shortages. We're supposedly the most powerful nation in the world, but we can't but enough [food in the stomachs / textbooks in the hands] of our children so that they can recieve a sufficient education to support themselves later in life, instead of ending up working at Walmart for minimum wage.

Personally, I don't find any thrill in NASA's "exploration", which seems to consist mostly of "let's see what _______ does in space" and the nation's military and scientific elite (yes, military- many of the people you see up there are military officers) playing. There is no "daring" (save the small chance their shuttle will be destroyed) and they're not touching any stars.
--
Detecting whether a interviewee has MacOS experience prior to OS X: yell "Frog blast the vent core!" If they run, yes.

Re:Cynical, but true

[ThreeE]

Let me understand your position -- you believe the US should not have a manned spaceflight capability?

Re:Cynical, but true

[Anonymous Coward]

It costs $16BN a year to keep NASA running of which $3BN is political pork, and a fair bit goes towards research which is primarily for the purposes of weapons and has nothing to do with the "quest for knowledge".

Just to add to that, here's a list of every department that costs more:

• Executive Office of the President, $19.6BN
• Department of Energy, $21.4BN
• Department of Justice, $24.7BN
• Department of Homeland Security, $43.6BN
• Department of Housing and Urban Development, $44.7BN
• Department of Labor, $53.4BN
• Department of Education, $64.5BN
• Department of Transportation, $65.7BN
• Office of Personnel Management, $67.3BN
• Department of Veterans Affairs, $73.8BN
• Department of Agriculture, $92.8BN
• Department of the Treasury, $494.3BN (Which includes Interest on the Public Debt at $440.4BN)
• Department of Defense, $558BN
• Social Security Administration, $622.7BN
• Department of Health and Human Services, $699.6BN

Re:Cynical, but true

[LaughingCoder]

OK, I have to weigh in here.

It costs $16BN a year to keep NASA running

And it costs $129BN a year to run the Department of Agriculture.
And the US government spent $71BN for the Department of Education (mind you, the federal government operates ZERO schools)


One in five of their classmates go hungry at home or at school because their parents can't afford to give them enough food,

The National School Lunch Program spent $7.1 billion in FY 2003. http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Lunch/AboutLunch/NSLPF actSheet.htm According to the same source, "In Fiscal Year 2003, more than 28.4 million children each day got their lunch through the National School Lunch Program." There are about 60 million school age kids in the US (ages 3 to 17) http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/school/cp s2004/tab01-01.xls. So already we provide lunch to half of them. It seems to me we could feed the other half for about $7BN. Now, which makes more sense - reduce the DoE budget by 10%, or elimate the space program? I know which way I would vote.

The "smoke" from the solid rocket engines contains huge amounts of hydrochloric acid.

Nice article. Did you read it? It's filled with lots of "maybes" and "could be's". Sure, huge amounts of HCL are released, and, according to your citation, some cars parked nearby could have their paintjobs pitted. And maybe if the wind blows right, and there are enough launches, the PH in nearby ponds could drop. The best example they have of environmental damage at a launch site was in Kazakhstan at the Baikonur launch site - not where 115 shuttles have launched from. Seriously, this is not a big issue.

As regards the ISS falling apart .. no big surprise. Big cross-government project ... most likely the pork is spread around not based on merit, but on political correctness.

Re:Cynical, but true

[cptgrudge]

I'm going to be cynical of your post here, troll, just FYI. There's a reason I view at +5 to Troll, and not just because some of them are funny. Someone might read your points and accept them at face value if there is no counter. Unlikely, but I will address them. Mods, give the parent +1 Underrated. A true +5 Troll is rare, and the points should be addressed, not lost below threshold.

It costs $16BN a year to keep NASA running of which $3BN is political pork, and a fair bit goes towards research which is primarily for the purposes of weapons and has nothing to do with the "quest for knowledge".

Yes, $16 billion dollars is a Big number. But the total 2007 budget for the US Government is 2.77 trillion. NASA's budget is a bit under 0.6% of the total. That is nothing. The pork contained in the budget is not just NASA's problem, but is a problem across the entire US Gov budget. Fix it there. Now, can you list the research items contained in NASA's budget that go toward the sole purpose of weapons? I need sources. Besides, you can turn anything into a weapon if you try hard enough. I can give you many examples that have helped in our "quest for knowledge" if you want them.

The ISS, which this mission supports, is falling apart after just a few years in space. It was supposed to last JUST 10 years after final assembly, and it hasn't even been fully assembled. Failures have ranged from oxygen generators to basic handtools to attitude correction gyros. The price tag was $100BN; that money largely went to our nation's (and other nation's) defense contractors, which build the majority of the hardware NASA uses.

Falling apart? Sources please. As far as I know, the ISS is not falling from the sky, but has been manned and operational (albeit with a reduced crew), and construction is now moving forward. Individual component failures are not unexpected. Space is hard. People seem to have this idea that we just pop up there every once in a while, hang around for a few weeks, and come back down. We're escaping our planet's gravity well, and building a huge complex outside of it in a harsh environment. This environment is a hard vacuum, filled with radiation, and has no gravity. It's like building a cruise ship in the middle of a choppy ocean, without a dock or support, only little boats. You're upset about some repairable component failures? As to the price tag...so what? 100 billion spread out over the project timeline isn't that much. What does it matter which companies got the contract to build it, as long as it is completed to spec? It isn't like these "defense contractors" are pure evil; they employ people that build things.

The "smoke" from the solid rocket engines contains huge amounts of hydrochloric acid.

I'll give you this one. Yes, it sucks. But in the larger picture, the damage it is doing is nothing compared to the current global levels of pollution. If there was a feasible method that involved zero pollution, I'm sure we would use it. The simple fact is, any fuel we have right now that provides enough thrust to escape the gravity of Earth will give off some pollution. We'll never be able to find cleaner alternatives if we don't do this research in the first place. This actually is rocket science. (Hey, at least we don't use an Orion Drive, which is theoretically cheap by comparison, but gives off a bunch of nuclear fallout, right?)

One in five of their classmates go hungry at home or at school because their parents can't afford to give them enough food, and the government currently spends slightly more than NASA's budget to feed 7 million children a year a decent lunch. Let's not even get started about basic supply and book shortages. We're supposedly the most powerful nation in the world, but we can't but enough [food in the stomachs / textbooks in the hands] of our children so that they can recieve a sufficient education to support themselves later in life, i

Re:Cynical, but true

[cptgrudge]

I agree that the post shouldn't be lost to below modded threshold, though I disagree with the points in the content of the post. I responded to them below. Posts like this one are why I browse with +5 to Troll. Aside from missing some truly funny posts that get modded Troll, the Slashdot groupthink beats down any that pose an alternate view to a popular opinion.

I have no idea if the poster was really trolling or not, but when something is modded Troll, people are less likely to respond with a thought out response, since they are "just wasting time responding to a troll". Then someone may come across it and agree with it at face value, regardless of the moderation, without hearing the other side. One of us being the "right one" is unimportant, since reality is probably somewhere in the middle. I dislike one-sided discussion; it reminds me of cheerleading.

Re:Cynical, but true

[Keebler71]

You're right...it shouldn't have been mod'ed as troll... it should have been modded as "overrated" but only because slashdot doesn't have a "-1 inaccruate" or "-1 ignorant".

A lot of Atlantis news recently.

[Anonymous Coward]

There has been a lot of articles about Atlantis lately - every time there is a delay a new article has been posted on slashdot.

I predict the next articles will be:

1. Atlantis is launching now
2. Atlantis has launched now
3. Atlantis is entering space
4. Atlantis is in space
5. Atlantis crew is sleeping now
6. Atlantas will return soon
7. Atlantis will return today
8. Atlantins is returning to Earth just now
9. Atlantis is about to land
10. Atlantis is landing
11. Atlantis has landed ...

Tax Dollars

[speedlaw]

I always hope my tax money, that huge amount sent to the giant black hole, bought at least a bolt on the shuttle, or a tile (good one), or for one of the engineers, or even the guy who cuts the lawn outside Mission Control. I'm always afraid it paid for Karl Rove's expense account, though.

Re:Tax Dollars

[syrinx]

I do a lot of work for the government, so possibly it went to my paycheck.

Thanks! :P

Re:Tax Dollars

[cyclone96]

I hope so too!

Whenever we've hired a new guy (I work for the US government), one of the first things I point out to them is:

- Your typical government engineer costs the government ~$200K to employ.
- Your typical engineer may be paying ~$10,000 in federal income tax.

In other words, the tax burden of 20 people just like them is going to keep them employed for the public good. Please make as good of use of their money as you hope other folks are doing with yours.

Re:Tax Dollars

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are what I am paying for, I have been ripped off.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[jthill]

I see you've got all the karma you need. Here's a little kudos to go with it :-)

Shuttle's name is so creepy

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did we name a shuttle after something that went straight to the bottom of the Atlantic?

Re:Shuttle's name is so creepy

[cyclone96]

Atlantis is actually named after the Research Vehicle Atlantis, the first ship of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. It was in use from 1931-1964 by WHOI, and apparently is still in use in Argentina.

All of the shuttle orbiters are named after sailing ships which were involved in research or exploration.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[MurphyZero]

I get NASA TV and 2 or 3 local channels ALWAYS cover Shuttle launches. Hmmm, probably because I live maybe 15 miles from the pad. Why watch it on TV when you can just walk outside and watch it?

Dupe?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure but didn't I see this article last week?

Re:Dupe?

[Timberwolf0122]

You did, it's due to NASA using the Microsoft Windows release schedule. Okay it's launching now... no now... no now... bit laters... no now... no now... okay we'll launch it when were ready!

That's really cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

..but you've got to admit that impressing a four year old isn't hard. Give them a big slice of chocolate cake and you'll get an equally enthusiastic "wow!"

I gave a pre-school cousin a go on my GBA and she just stared in slack-jawed amazement for an hour that she could make the little car go and hear the engine sound.

Re:That's really cool...

[bgfay]

Attach two solid rocket boosters to that slice of cake, light it up, and THEN see how much they're amazed.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[drsquare]

TV channels have schedules. Shuttle launches don't. You can't expect them to dedicate a day's programming to an event that they don't know when is going to happen, or whether it's going to happen at all. If it does happen, you can't expect them to disrupt their normal programming because it's not that important an event.

The only times programming should be interrupted is acts of terrorism or large natural disasters, not expensive scientific experiments. There are things happening all over the world that have just as much scientific value as the shuttle launch, should they also get blanket coverage?

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[ultranova]

The only times programming should be interrupted is acts of terrorism or large natural disasters, not expensive scientific experiments.

Why ? The chances are that if you didn't already know about it, then neither will affect you directly in any way. There's no reason why either should get immediate coverage. Besides, terrorism thrives on attention; interrupting the programming for it is a great way of helping terrorists spread terror.

The best response for terrorism is to continue the programming as normal and then cover the event in evening news. Interrupting the programming will inflate the fear generated by the strike and therefore help terrorists. It won't help anyone else, except ratings.

As for natural disasters, again, unless you happen to be in their route the chances are that you don't need to know immediately. They, too, can wait until evening news.

Besides, in the end, natural catastrophes are basically just big accidents and terrorism is a few maniacs murdering people. Neither is likely to have a lasting impact, unless we are talking about an extinction level event. Shuttle launches - all space vechile launches - on the other hand are absolutely vital for the future of humanity as a species, and certainly deserve coverage.

Model Rocketry!! Re:Cheesy, but true

[Anonymous Coward]

your kids are big enough to fly some model rockets! you can get some ready-to-fly rockets at Toys R Us, Wal-Mart, and maybe even Target. Or better, go check your local hobby shop. also find your local NAR (National Association of Rocketry) club www.nar.org and meet some like-minded folks!

It launched...

[paynesmanor]

It took off over 5 hours ago..

Downloadable recorded launch video.

[antdude]

For those who hates streaming video, here is a 14 MB MP4 one that can be downloaded.

I stayed up late to watch it!

[Traf-O-Data-Hater]

I'm in Australia, and a huge follower of spaceflight and the ISS construction. The launch was a quarter past twelve in the morning, local time. I was watching it via streamed NASA TV for a couple hours beforehand. And I did the same thing Friday night until the launch was scrubbed. So yes, we in the rest of the world (ie. the unimportant bit outside the east and west coasts of North America) are definately interested in all this stuff, it's a pity you guys don't spend more money and resources on national treasures such as NASA :(

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[slim-t]

You must not have cable. It was on C-Span and CNN.

Townie Syndrome

[istartedi]

I live in Washington, DC. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone say "I never visit the museums, the monuments, etc..." I'd be a billionaire. And the museums here are free. Not free as in "we're going to make you feel guilty at the door". No. Really Free. Nobody bothers you at all, except that now there are metal detectors.

Anyway, I think that when something is right in your own backyard, (sort of), there is a tendancy to not appreciate it. Here in the US, there are a lot of people that pay attention to the Brittish Royal Family. Personally, I could care less. I sometimes wonder if the British themselves pay as much attention as some Americans do.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[3waygeek]

Not to mention HDNet; they have a contract with NASA to cover all shuttle launches through 2010. They provided 5 hours of coverage today, and about 4 hours of coverage leading up to Friday's aborted launch.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[pipingguy]

including the Mission Control guy's narration

I think that guy should be fired (no offense to him personally). It's starting to sound like an advertisement. Put descriptive text at the bottom of the screen and let everyone watch the show. It doesn't need narration, as spectacular things are trivialized when some moron does "on-the-scene"-type reporting.

Remember "go at throttle up"?

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[pipingguy]

Besides, terrorism thrives on attention; interrupting the programming for it is a great way of helping terrorists spread terror.

Exactly.

good luck getting a ticket

[SuperBanana]

Then, of course, there's the argument that if we don't get off this rock and colonize other (planets, moons), some day those problems you just mentioned will seem trivial compared to the immenent extinction of the human race. Just sayin'.

Here are some questions for you:

• There are currently 5.8 billion people on the planet. I hope you have a lot of rocket ships, because even a hundredth of a percent of that number is half a million people.
• The earth has air, food, and water. Where do you think those three things will come from for other planets?
• How many decades do you think it'll be before we have colony on the Moon or Mars? How long until we have air, food, or water on those planets? This isn't Star Trek, sonny, and we don't have magical terraforming rockets that convert planets in a matter of years.

Perhaps we should focus on correcting environmental problems present, instead of pie in the sky escapism.

Re:good luck getting a ticket

[topical_surfactant]

I suggested preserving the human race, not evacuating the damn planet.

As for liveable conditions, find a solar system body with water, and establish an underground colony. Not easy, not cheap, but possible without terraforming.

Let me know when you've got a working plan to save the environment (how many decades just to slow down our current rate of consumption of nonrenewables?), gramps, and we can discuss this again.

I'm sick of this cynical old-fartism.

Re:I *would* have watched it, but nobody covered i

[atotos]

I saw it on CNN, they did live coverage of the last 30 seconds of countdown and the whole liftoff, launch and booster separation procedure. Total time about 5 minutes. :)