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Electoral-Vote.com Returns for 2006 Elections

Klaus writes "In the 2004 Presidential race, the website electoral-vote.com tracked individual state polls, providing a map of the changing political scene. The map, updated daily, was a phenomenal success. The site is back for the 2006 Congressional elections. It is providing descriptions of the top 40 House races, and all 33 Senate races, as well as valuable information for prospective voters." Remember, your vote counts. Make it out there on November 7th.

38 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. Almost. by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Funny
    Remember, your vote counts.
    Remember, the one who counts your vote counts.
    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
    1. Re:Almost. by Somatic · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Remember, your vote counts.

      Sure. Out of the entire country, I get to choose between TWO people, neither of whom represent me. Then this idiot will be in charge for the remainder of his term, and every time he does something I don't like (all the time), I'll be told it's my fault because "it's a democracy".

      Then, I'll have to hope the election doesn't get hijacked.

      A party system isn't democracy, it's crap. Washington was the only one who had it right: "It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another..."

      --
      My script don't crash! She crashes, you crashed her!
    2. Re:Almost. by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I live in Canada, and we have a parlimentary system. It works a lot better, because you don't vote for the guy on top. You vote for a guy who's supposed to be looking out for the people in his riding. Naturally, it doesn't always work out perfectly, but I think in this system the people we we voting for have a much closer connection to the people who voted for them.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Almost. by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The far-left is already wreaking havoc in the Democratic party


      How so? As far as I can tell, the thing that's wreaking havoc on the Democratic Party is (a) being completely out of power, and thus almost completely ineffective at governing, and (b) until recently(?), not having figured out a way to respond to the Republican Party's relentless demonization of all things non-Republican.


      The only saving grace for the Democrats is that the Republicans' skill at demagoguery is surpassed by their incompetence at running the nation.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    4. Re:Almost. by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You'd might, but with the slim margins your presidents have won with in recent years, you may end up with a minority government. You may also end up with decromats and republicans sitting together and discussing things, and having to come to an agreement before decisions are made, instead of only one side sitting around discussing their own interests.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:Almost. by cheezedawg · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Here are some (admittedly biased) differences that I can think of. Of course, this is all speculation:
      • The Iraq war: I agree that it is unlikely that Al Gore would have invaded Iraq. As a result, Saddam Hussein would still be in power supporting over a dozen terrorist organizations and trying to direct terrorist attacks against the US. He would still be developing illegal WMD in contravention of his UN obligations, likely without any UN inspectors in the country (we found over a dozen illegal weapons programs that the UN did not now about, and the only reason he let the inspectors back into Iraq in late 2002 was because we parked 150,000 troops at his doorstep), he would have been able to finance these weapons through the continuing corruption of the Oil-for-Food program. The citizens of Iraq would have no say in their destiny, and instead they would still be living under a brutal dictatorship, and Saddam would probably have killed another 100,000-200,000 of them (based on his 20 year history of killing almost 2 million people). On the brighter side, we wouldn't have lost almost 3,000 of our own soldiers fighting over there, we would have saved some money, and the country would be more stable than it appears right now.
      • Libya wouldn't have voluntarily given up its hidden WMD programs.
      • The seed of democracy wouldn't have spread into Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt leading to the most democratic elections these nations have ever seen.
      • North Korea would have still been pretending to abide by the NPT and accepting international aid and support while secretly working on nuclear weapons and long range missiles. I can't imagine Al Gore confronting North Korea about this, let alone successfully organizing 5-party talks with North Korea like President Bush did.
      • Iran might not have felt as much motivation to pursue a nuclear program, but its hard to say.
      • It is very unlikely that Al Gore would have pushed through tax cuts in the face of the economic slowdown that started Q3 2000 and was exasperated by the Sept 11th terrorist attacks. These tax cuts have been responsible for one of the longest periods of economic expansion in decades. Instead, I imagine Gore would have kept the stifling tax rates of Bill Clintons presidency, trying to funnel money into his Social Security "lock box" and compounding our economic problems.
      • Based on his stance on the environment, I bet Al Gore would have tried to implement the greenhouse gas targets found in the Kyoto protocol even though the US Senate defeated Kyoto by a vote of 95-0 during Bill Clinton's presidency. This would have caused us to have even higher energy prices and would have further restricted our economy.
      • Many Europeans would probably like us more now, for whatever that is worth.
      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    6. Re:Almost. by fotbr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've also got to avoid being sent to die in a pointless foreign war,
      Drop the fear-mongering about a draft, we don't have one, and its not coming back anytime soon.

      drowning in a gulf coast city,
      If you choose to live there, then you deal with the consequences of living below sea level on a coast with a history of hurricanes.

      or dying of disease after the EPA lies about air quality,
      The EPA can only lie about what was told to them. If they told the truth as it was told them it'd still likely be full of lies that the EPA was told.

      among other dangers.
      Life has danger. You can't escape risk, so you might as well accept that its there, and continue living life instead of living in fear.

  2. Slashdotted by OmegaBlac · · Score: 4, Funny
    Well, that was quick.

    The site is back for the 2006 Congressional elections.
    Well, lets hope that it returns by Nov 7th as it's down right now.
  3. Re:In 2004 by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 4, Informative

    Didn't the author claim microkernels would prevail?

  4. It's Wrong by christopherfinke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why does it have Connecticut as "Strong Dem" if it shows Lieberman leading as an Independent, 49-41?

  5. Re:Think Happy Thoughts, Ignore Reality by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Insightful
    it's extremely improbable that your one vote is going to matter one way or the other.

    No, but generalized apathy helps no one.

    What we really need to do is:

    • Encourage everyone to view voting as a civic duty
    • Stigmatize treating Democracy as some kind of spectator sport

    Hate W? Great, get out there and vote against his party!

    Please, let's have sufficient turnout that, irrespective of the outcome, we don't have one side whining on, at great taxpayer expense, about how the other thugged the election.

    Not that facts would dissuade anyone from exercising their First Ammendment right to complain, but facts make a great sound buffer.
    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  6. Success? by Keebler71 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The map, updated daily, was a phenomenal success.

    What exactly does this quote from the summary mean? What does one mean when one says that a election polling site "was a pehnomenal success"? I think that this an excellent site and visiting it many times each day during the 2004 election. In the end, the final prediction turned out wrong (no fault of the site, as it is an aggregate of all the polls which themselves were wrong). But this does raise the following question... what is the point of tracking polls and why do we political junkies savor them so? I'd be curious to see a survey on the the historical accuracy of polling, as it seems to me that Republicans consistently outperform (or alternately Dems underperform) their polled-predicted performance. The reasons for this could range anywhere from Republicans "stealing the vote" or emocrats just not being as motivated as they say there are, or even a biased polling system.

    Heck, I'd even suggest that this obsession with tracking polls hurts the country, in the sense that it conditions the population toward and expected outcome, and when that outcome does not come (e.g. 2004) the losing side's rage is amplified and it forments conspiracy theories where there may be none. None of this helps us as a society. So I ask again - what does "success" mean in terms of polling?

    There is only one poll that matters - and it occurs at the ballot box.

    --
    "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
    1. Re:Success? by sheldon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's interesting, when unaffiliated groups monitor elections in countries which are just finally getting around to voting, they use opinion polls to track whether or not there is fraud going on in the election. That is if the polls say X is going to win 60/40, and he loses 49/51... that flags that something's wrong.

      That being said, polls have a margin of error and are pretty worthless when the results are close.

  7. Re:In 2004 by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It was impossible to predict the disaster that was Katherine Harris in Florida.

    Yes, she's just a terrible person, forcing people to vote the way they did, not for Kerry. Or are you confusing 2004 with 2000, when she also didn't force anybody to vote in any particular way? I see.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  8. Andrew S Tanenbaum by Psionicist · · Score: 4, Informative

    In case you don't know, the guy behind this website is Andy Tanenbaum, the Minix guy, the Linus Torvalds flameware guy, the Modern Operating System guy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tanenbaum

    "In 2004 Tanenbaum created electoral-vote.com, a popular web site analyzing opinion polls for the 2004 U.S. Presidential Election, using them to project the outcome in the Electoral College."

    1. Re:Andrew S Tanenbaum by TheoMurpse · · Score: 4, Funny

      From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
      Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
      Subject: What would you like to see most in electoral-vote.com?
      Summary: small poll for my new poll-tracking system
      Message-ID:
      Date: 7 Sep 06 20:57:08 GMT
      Organization: University of Helsinki

      Hello everybody out there using electoral-vote.com -

      I'm doing a (free) poll-tracking system (just a hobby, won't be big and
      professional like Gallop) for the US. This has been brewing since april,
      and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people
      like/dislike in electoral-vote.com, as my website resembles it somewhat
      (same physical layout of the map (due to practical reasons) among other
      things).

      I've currently ported the poll-grepping code, and things seem to work.
      This implies that I'll get something practical within a few days, and
      I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
      are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)

                                    Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)

      PS. Yes - it's free of any electoral-vote.com code, and it has a multi-
      threaded fs. It is NOT protable (uses Firefox XUL etc), and it probably
      never will support anything other than Firefox, as that's all I have :-(.

    2. Re:Andrew S Tanenbaum by beej · · Score: 2, Funny

      The fact that this is being moderated "Informative" is a little disconcerting.

  9. Re:Think Happy Thoughts, Ignore Reality by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Stigmatize treating Democracy as some kind of spectator sport
    My favorite way to do that is to call those idiots and then explain what the original greek root of it, idiotes, meant for the greeks:

    "Idiot" was originally used in ancient Greek city-states to refer to people who were overly concerned with their own self-interest and ignored the needs of the community. Declining to take part in public life, such as (semi-)democratic government of the polis (city state), such as the Athenian democracy, was considered dishonorable. "Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters.
    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  10. Re:In 2004 by DrJimbo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They reported the exit polls that showed Kerry would win.

    If you Google("exit polls" ukraine) you will see that there was a similar disparity between the exit polls and the official results in a Ukrainian election held around that same time.

    There was almost universal agreement in the West that in the Ukrainian election the exit polls were correct and the official results were rigged. AFAIK, the last two national elections that Bush purportedly won (and now the recent election in Mexico) are the only ones where the exit poll results differed from the official results by statistically significant amounts and yet the official result was still accepted by our media almost without question.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  11. Re:How do poll results help (real) voters? by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Interesting
    --
    "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  12. Re:Think Happy Thoughts, Ignore Reality by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Insightful
    By voting for advocates of fiscal conservatism and the free-market who are Republican, I can be "voting against" President Bush just as much as someone who votes for a candidate who believes in an even more gargantuan national government and a far greater socialized economy can be "voting against" President Bush.
    "The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than in theory"
    Part of the compromise inherent in our representative democracy is that you're guaranteed some bathwater with your baby.
    We end up voting not to maximize the baby, but minimzed the current and projected bathwater.
    Perhaps the internet can eventually provide better feedback, as http://porkbusters.org/ would seem to indicate.
    One hopes.
    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  13. Re:Think Happy Thoughts, Ignore Reality by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Trying to indirectly slap Bush in the face by voting against someone simply because they are in the same Party is petulant and immature.

    For good or for ill - mostly for ill - the rules of the Congress are set up so that the majority party has a great deal of power.

    By voting for advocates of fiscal conservatism and the free-market who are Republican, I can be "voting against" President Bush...

    Sadly, so long as the current leadership of Republican party remains in place, a vote for any Republican candidate for Congress is a vote for empowering neoconservatives and theocrats, even if the individual candidate is a reasonable human being.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  14. Re:Think Happy Thoughts, Ignore Reality by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know, to me, anything not Constitutionally mandated is a bigger problem than pork. I think returning the national government to Constitutional legitimacy would mostly take care of the pork issue.

    --
    Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
  15. Re:In 2004 by God+of+Lemmings · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, poll disparity does in fact indicate tampering. In fact, I know people personally who were prevented from voting by republican poll challengers. Considering that I live in a "blue state", I would have to say that it was very wide spread.

    Google provides some good info on its first search page: http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls= org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=poll+disp arity+indicates+tampering&btnG=Google+Search

    I seem to recall seeing something on some conservative websites, where they were spreading a belief that the democrats were going to try and steal the election in 2004. Thus I believe that many poll challengers believed that they were combating fraud, while in fact they were contributing to it.

    Google doesn't do so good on this one:
    http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&lr=&safe =off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aof ficial_s&q=democrats+will+try+to+steal+the+electio n&btnG=Search

    The media was well aware that the election was being stolen. They had to be. There were in fact some stories posted on CNN's web site for a short period of time in regards to election problems... but does anyone ever remember seeing anything appear on any of their TV networks?

    Also, despite electoral-vote.com's popularity and dozen or so mirror sites. They were ALL ddosed into oblivion on the night of the election. Or doesn't anyone recall that? What other reason would someone ddos a site containing nothing but collected poll information if not to suppress it.

    --
    Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
  16. Re:that's OK by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It's easy to undo a law that makes cocksucking a felony, but very hard to undo a law that makes a large segment of the population (individuals, car companies, whatever...) depend on some sort of handout.

    Not at all. First, budgets (including "handouts") are renewed, revised, and renegotiated every year (or perhaps in some states every n years?); the criminal code is not. Second, if what you suggest were the case, laws against cocksucking would have been stricken long ago, while economic policies would endure; in fact, anti-cocksucking laws remain on the books in many states, while economic policies come and go.

    Third, anti-cocksucking laws mean that people get locked into cages and that police pry into people's personal affairs; economic policies mean that money gets shifted around. If offered a choice between a 10% paycut due to some economic policy, and the possibility of the police staking out my bedroom to arrest my girlfriend and I for unsanctioned sexual activity, I'll take the pay cut, thanks.

    Hardly ever is a law simply removed.

    Simply removing a law is not a guarantee that liberty is increased. Were the Fifth Amendment to be repealed, for example, that would be "removing a law", and certainly removing that guff about "due process" would streamline the government.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  17. If electoral-vote is down... by bloodstar · · Score: 2, Informative

    you can use the mirror sites www.electoral-vote2.com and www.electoral-vote3.com. He had problems in 2004 with people coordinating dos attacks against the site.

    --
    "The bass, the rock, the mic, the treble. I like my coffee black, just like my metal" - Mindless Self Indulgence
  18. Wrong by MarkusQ · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's tempting to think that all Democrats will vote how their Democrat masters tell them to, but Connecticut voters are more mature than that. I suspect at least a third of them will vote for Leiberman.

    I'll assume that you weren't following the campaign closely, and aren't just trolling, but that is pretty much exactly wrong. The party bosses opposed Lamont from the start, not wanting to spend resources on Lieberman's "safe" seat. It was the grass roots that kept pushing for a candidate that represented the views of the people. The party only got behind him (to the extent that they have) reluctantly and well after he won the supposedly unwinable primary.

    Single issue candidates always do better in primaries than in general elections. Which is why Lamont will probably lose. Leiberman is more solidly liberal than Lamont, and Connecticut is a liberal state. Do the math.

    Again, I'll assume that you aren't just trolling, but this is plain nuts. First, it isn't a single issue race (which issue were you thinking, anyway? Reproductive rights? The war? Big pharma vs. the consumer? Lobbyist reform? Immigration? Ethics?). But regardless of which issue you pick, if you look at Lieberman's actions (and ignore is posturing) he's hardly a liberal, and not at all in step with the bulk of the voters (of all flavors) that he supposedly represents. Finally, is big problem is really that he long ago stopped having anything to do with his district, and became a "national politician" who only wanted them as a backdrop for his leap to higher office (which he has repeatedly failed to grasp).

    They are, to put it bluntly, fed up with being used.

    --MarkusQ

    1. Re:Wrong by MarkusQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your biases are showing.

      • When I point out that what you said was incorrect you reply "I know that" and then reassert the same false claim in different words.
      • The different words include (twice, in under two dozen words) the phrase "the Democrat Party" which Rush Limbaugh endorses as a way of expressing his belief "that the party has nothing to do with democracy".
      • You respond to my second point with a second lie (or, to be charitable a bald-faced unsupported claim which turns out to be factually inaccurate), that Leiberman is one of the most liberal Senators in office, even though this has nothing to do with the point you are rebutting or with the basis on which you are rebutting it. But it has been a canard or right-wing talk radio for years, so in it goes.
      • You turn around and conflate any disagreement with Lieberman or his positions with "Hatred for Bush", another of Rush's talking points which, when you think about it, makes no sense.
      • You conclude by bundling one state's Senate race into the Bush crew's "you're either with us or against us" thought-stopper, which gets dragged out to "explain" everything from global war to local school board elections...but only when looking at the facts and honestly thinking about them would lead you to a different conclusion.

      --MarkusQ

  19. Re:In 2004 by MojoRilla · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can speculate all you want, or you can read the 77 page report from the company who did the exit polls.

  20. Insightful - Only on Faux News by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't mind beng modded down - must be a Right-Winger or an extermely uninformed Mod who modded up the parent as Insightful. So all the reports of widespread voting irregularites and voter suppression in a state governed by the GW's brother were all just a teensy-weeensy co-ink-a-dince?

    The election was stolen - the Diebold machines are a plot to steal yet another election.

    The 2004 Ohio election results have recently been ordered to be held and not destroyed, since they might record yet another reversal of GW's fortunes.

    Wiki has a nice summary of what passed for Democracy in "Kent State Ohio".

    --
    "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
  21. how strongly to one side or not? by wonkobeeblebrox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He has an interesting page at: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2006/Info/senator -ratings.html discussing that there really aren't any senators in the middle anymore.

    From my analysis of his table "mean" column...
    What I found interesting from the table is that the 55 Republicans are more beholden to their side (on avg, 10.47 away from 100% on all issues) than the 44 Democrats are to their side (on avg, 13.56 away from 100% on all issues).

    Since that data is taken from all the same bills/amendments/etc, it is a meaningful difference.

    Of course, as a registered Green, I knew this already: the Democratic party became "Republicans lite" and left me a long time ago...

  22. An election mechanism that makes sense by Turadg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You do get to choose between more than two people. The current problem is that if you choose anyone other than the top two candidates, you effectively remove a vote from the candidate you prefer of the top two.

    The solution is a mechanism in which you can express your preference for the candidates you believe in and still express your preference for the guy who has a chance but isn't your favorite over the one other guy who has a chance who you really can't stand.

    This mechanism is called Preferential Voting, Ranked Voting, or Instant-Runoff Voting (IRV). Where we to have had it in the 2000 presidential election, Nader supporters wouldn't have put Bush in office. If your politics are on the other pole, consider that if this were in place in 1992, Perot supporters wouldn't have put Clinton in office.

    It's a no-brainer. Get involved.

    1. Re:An election mechanism that makes sense by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem with those is that they're either riggable, or fail the condorcet winner criterion. So either voters can rig the election by putting in things that aren't their real preferences, or the person who would beat every single other candidate one-on-one can loose.


      It's true no system is going to be perfect. However, even a system with all of the problems you describe above (which are mainly theoretical and unlikely to be a factor in real life scenarios) would still be preferable to the deeply flawed system we have now.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  23. Re:In 2004 by AlexDV · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, the post is refering to the maintainer of electoral-vote.com, Dr. Andrew Tanenbaum, who in 1992 instigated a heated debate with Linus Torvlads on the comp.os.minix newsgroup about the relative merits of microkernels vs. monolithic kernels. Tanenbaum maintained that "LINUX is obsolete" and suggested that "people who want a **MODERN** "free" OS look around for a microkernel-based, portable OS, like maybe GNU or something like that." Of course, history tells us that millions of businesses and individuals disagree with his position.

    O'Reilly has a transcript:
    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/ap pa.html

  24. Re:In 2004 by Bj�rn · · Score: 2, Informative
    I would suggest reading Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s article in Rolling Stone: Was the 2004 Election Stolen?

    Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.

    --
    Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. --Niels Bohr
  25. Re:Think Happy Thoughts, Ignore Reality by sheldon · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The Party is not President Bush, and President Bush is not the Party. Vote for or against policies. Trying to indirectly slap Bush in the face by voting against someone simply because they are in the same Party is petulant and immature.


    This is rather idealistic and misses reality. In the United States, if a party has a President in office that President is regarded not just the leader of the country but also the political leader of the party. Given the President's power of the Bully pulpit, the influence on policy direction is extreme.

    By voting for advocates of fiscal conservatism and the free-market who are Republican, I can be "voting against" President Bush just as much as someone who votes for a candidate who believes in an even more gargantuan national government and a far greater socialized economy can be "voting against" President Bush.


    I'm not aware of any Republicans who believe in fiscal conservatism or free-market capitalism.
  26. If you're involved in the process, by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can use polling data to allocate your limited resources strategically.

    Sometimes this works too well and the winner will have spent just enough effort and money to get fifty percent of the vote plus epsilon, which since epsilon is within the margin of error will create bitter fights over the results.

  27. Humor about idiots in politics by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Washington State originally excluded idiots from voting. The exact language was

    "All idiots, insane persons, and persons convicted of infamous crime unless restored to their civil rights are excluded from the elective franchise."

    This was amended in 1988 to refer to people declared legally incompetent instead of "idiots and insane persons".

    Some people opposed the amendment because they like having a constitution that said idiots weren't allowed to vote.