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A Replacement for the i-Opener?
kenh writes "For years my father has gotten along the Information Superhighway with just an i-Opener and an Earthlink account. However, the internet has moved too far ahead for his burned-in-ROM browser to be useful to him anymore, and dial-up is a bit slow these days. While investigating various options (Apple Macintosh, Knoppix Linux/Ubuntu Linux with USB key file storage, WebTV) I didn't find any that were very appealing, for a variety of reasons. Right now, I'm looking for something that has: dial-up support, no update/anti-virus/etc pop-ups, and no software 'update' downloads, support for PDFs, Flash, Javascript, and other features necessary to accommodate more modern websites. The i-Opener was 'foolproof', and if things went wrong, you could just shut it off and try again, Everything I see today lacks that ability (to varying extents)." What decent i-Opener replacements, if any, exist today?
go to best buy and buy their cheapest laptop. nowadays they are more than enough for someones Pop who just surfs a few sites and exchanges emails.
I was hoping to see Goatse when I clicked on that link, and wasn't disappointed. (I didn't bother to read the url until after I clicked). Never seen such a call for Goatse than this story. ;) Kudos.
Why not hack the i-opener? Linux-Hacker is the first link on Google for hacking i-openers.
There are generally a few on eBay that are sold as hacked if you don't want to go through it yourself. Buy a hacked one, sell the old one for someone else to hack.
I use to support these things while working for Earthlink/MindSpring. They're not that bad after you put Linux on them. I've thought of buying one myself just to throw in the corner for a stats setup for my network, computers and hosting servers - just don't have the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Internet_Com municator
Still, though: An old/cheap laptop + Ubuntu boot CD seems like the best option.
Two possible solutions. First, part together a basic system using old/cheap parts, and run a live cd version of linux on it. knoppix comes to mind immediately, but if you're technically inclined you could probably find a customized solution that would fit on a cheapish USB flash drive so you wouldn't even need the cdrom drive. If you pick slower/cooler components, you can go with a small and quiet case that wouldn't even have many (if any) fans to go bad over time.
Second solution is to bite the bullet and go with an imac or mac mini. There are plenty of cheap LCD displays on sale "out there", so the cheapest mac mini plus the cheapest 17" LCD you could find would give you a rather usable system for not a whole lot of cash. If you pay out a bit more money, you'd even have the benefit of the apple service plan in case things go sour.
I won't even go into the wide variety of custom boards or even the epia series, because you seem to have ruled out pretty much everything on the market so I don't see you being willing to do the work that would go into a customized boot-cd style linux installation that would run on an epia or other small form factor board using a flash drive image. If you are, then it's just a matter of picking the parts, shelling out your cash, and following the howtos/faqs/readmes. Otherwise, the two solutions above are probably the easiest way to get a usable system at a reasonable price while spending only a limited amount of time getting it working and stable.
You can find them on ebay for usually less than $200, they hook up to a tv, and aren't really prone to viruses. You can get Firefox and you should be good. However, I don't know if they support USB modems.
Monstar L
What you want to get is a minimal PC and install either Firefox, Opera or early versions of Netscape. Then, you configure the browsers to load minimal information (i.e. text only) and retrieves the extras only when required (i.e. clicking on an "Images" button.)
The greatest reason why modern sites load slowly on Dial-up is because of the large quantity of images - cutting them out (especially the advertisements) significantly speeds up loading time.
Any updates (other than the initial download of Flash and Java) that are available for your system are not needed to be installed as long as you keep a firewall enabled, and don't blindingly auto-execute any files from the web.
To get as good help as possible, please post a more detailed account of "various reasons" that the mentioned alternatives wouldn't work for you.
Might not only be helpful for you but also to others looking for a similar solution.
I dunno, I ran Damn Small in a VM to try it out and it's that: small, fast, simple. Might work for what you're doing. It boots from 2 x 1.44 MB floppies, CD, USB pen drive, etc., and it requires no HDD and very little RAM. It includes a web browser (sorry, don't recall which one), supports PPP, and I'd guess you shouldn't have much trouble installing any extra apps you need. Only bad things I can think of are that the version I tried out didn't include mkfs (not too difficult to work around) and I think you have to jump through a few hoops to get the source code (stuff five bucks in an envelope, tho I didn't search very hard for the source :). damnsmalllinux.org
modded xbox with dynebolic distro 1.4.1 should provide a fairly foolproof environment.
unfortunatly it isn't dialup.Perhaps you could network it to a server/firewall that will dial up ISP.That would be safer anyway.
dunno,just a thot.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I put my grandparents on Fedora after they had tons of trouble with Windows 98 and Windows XP and they couldn't be happier. It meets all of your requirments and you could get any cheap or old machine to run it. I had it running on a p3 733mhz with 256megs of RAM. After the install all I did was turn automatic updates on and turned off a few unneeded services(ssh, bluetooth etc) It took about an hour or so to do. As for modem support just make sure that the modem is supported under Linux before you buy it. In our area its actually cheaper to get DSL(only $20 a month) then dail-up, if you do that pretty much any ethernet card works.
The i-Opener was 'foolproof', and if things went wrong, you could just shut it off and try again, Everything I see today lacks that ability (to varying extents).
You can do just that with any Live CD Linux. Something not working as it should? Reboot. The only downside is the longer boot time. Install to a HD to make it faster (mounted as RO to keep it tamper-proof). I'm sure there are special live CD distributions that come with a fool proof GUI, ie. a big friendly button labeled "INTARWEB".
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
How about the Browser Appliance from VMWare? It sounds like everything you need; you can have it started automatically when the machine is started, and everything should be good. You can have anything you want underneath; set it once and never touch it again.
Just
1) Build a machine from Newegg or buy one from eBay. I build to full computer (including 17" LCD monitor) for under $500.
2) Install Kubuntu and set KDE into kiosk mode.
The "internet appliance" market has been a bust. Many have tried it but WebTV was the only one to have any success. It's because full-featured computers (even running Windows) aren't that much harder to use than the single-function machines. There's probably also some stigma to using an appliance because it implies that you're too stupid to use a "real" computer. And ultimately, because all the appliances have crashed and burned in the market, you have to give up on them get "real".
At the college where I do tech support we have a number of instructors (especially the older ones) who are not technologically inclined, but they need to do their grading on our web site, so they need a device that runs a modern web browser supported by our portal software. We're an art school, so we have a bunch of old G3-powered iMacs sitting around, and that's what we give them. Install OS X on them (they'll all run Panther; the oldest ones can install Tiger using a utility called XPostFacto), set it to auto-run Safari or Firefox when the machine starts, and voila: a generally trouble-free web browsing system in a friendly-looking package. Even a leisurely 233MHz G3 is fast enough and 128-256MB RAM should be plenty for web browsing. (Bump it to 320 or more if you want to also install NeoOffice.)
You didn't say why you'd eliminated a Mac as an option, and this pretty much meets your requirements. Yes, OS X does have a Software Update app that periodically prompts the user to install the latest security fixes and requires him to click some license agreements for them, but if you have to disable that to avoid confusing/annoying Dad or because he's on a slow dial-up line, it'll probably be OK (certainly moreso than an un-updated Windows machine). Firefox's updates might be annoying but they're quick and easy. An iMac isn't instant-on (especially not a G3), but if you let it Sleep instead of shutting it down it will be.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Puppy Linux is a newbie-friendly alternate to DSL. Although (in my opinion) less suitable for hacking, it is a decent mini-desktop solution. Plus it comes in different flavors.
It'll cost you.. but a nice upgrade would be an iMac. The form factor will be similar for him, and it will be a hell of a lot more powserful, while remaining simple to use.
I'm sure a larger screen with better resolution will be a welcome change, and he may even get into some of the new features, like digital picture management or music with iTunes, etc.
The older G4 iMac, which looks a bit like a lamp, would be okay and not too expensive. A newer G5 iMac is a lot like the iOpener (all in one monitor unit), but will cost more.
Or, if form factor is not as important, do like I did with my parents, set him up with a Mac Mini and an LCD monitor. It's still small and quiet, and an older G4 mini should be pretty cheap.
Instead of "and no software 'update' downloads" I suggest aiming for "fast, effective, automatic, unobtrusive-to-simple-usage software update downloads."
Look to well-supported OSes for meeting this revised requirement. I like Apple, personally, and have regard for several Linux distributions' efforts in this area. I even appreciate Microsoft's work in regard to software updates, although the quickest fixes are related to protecting Hollywood and not their OS users (however, my biggest gripe with Winodws is the fact that #1 above has not occured w/r/t Windows).
People find innovative ways to cause havoc everyday. Therefore a system designed for common users without built-in automated patching must be rejected. ROM-based systems are fine, unless, as you have found out, that new stuff is needed for features required to surf the modern web. Once you open that 'hole' you are in need of patching.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Have you looked at the Pepper Pad? Unlike the i-Opener it's portable (2.2lbs, built-in Wi-Fi so you can use it on your couch). Our third version, the Pepper Pad 3, has an x86 chip + runs a variant of Fedora Core. The software is based on Firefox 1.5. It includes Flash and Acrobat plugins, and has a popup blocker. It starts shipping this month.
We've designed the Pad and its software to be an appliance. The user never needs to interact with the underlying OS, although it is an option for those who want to. While we do provide software updates on a regular basis, the Pad can be configured not to get them.
Disclaimer: I work for Pepper.
You list requirements, and then list some computers that meet those requirements. If they're not good enough, then either say why a Mac or flash-Linux box isn't good enough, or else list the secret requirements that ruled them out.
Is fast booting from ROM one of the requirements? Is it the simplicity and efficiency of QNX?
Several years ago, many Amiga refugees were looking for somewhere to go, and QNX Neutrino was a very appealing candidate, because it matched AmigaOS' speed/efficiency/elegance. Alas, I ended up not going that way (didn't want to risk getting burned again by depending on proprietary software), and didn't keep up with what happened to that group. I wonder how well things went for them. A cheap x86 box that boots Neutrino and runs Firefox on top of that, might be what you're asking for.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
DSL linux boots screaminly fast on old hardware. While it loses some of it's advantage on faster hardware, it really can extend the useful life of older hardware. I put it on my wife's old P2 233mhz 196MB laptop and it boots faster than my new Xeon on Fedora running off the disk. (DSL boot time is 90 seconds). And the lightweight tools like the browser Dillo launch literally in a second, again much faster than firefox on my Xeon. (It does run firefox too )
I've tried a lot of Live CDs and I really like the simplicity of the way DSL can be customized and then the customizations stored on a USB or even on a web server. They make it so easy to do--almost no linux skills needed. So when you take your CD and boot any computer anywhere your personal configuration is loaded from remote server or USB stick.
One thing that will be really nice for your day is the nifty way the primary interface is simply icons on the desktop. No start menus to fuss with. just click to desktop icon. Yes I know other operating systems have desktop aliases. But they take on a greater role in DSL than in other OS. And setting up your dad with the few applications he needs is a snap. Even the package manager is the simplest I've used--no questions, just a few clicks.
DSL also is very parsimonious with screen real estate consumed by the desktop so that it can work well on small laptop screens.
The only thing about DSL that makes is hard to use for some people is that it it's folder navigation in the open and save dialogs is pretty dated. Much like windows 95. So you have to remember how to walk up and down directories in that old style. (I'd forgotten how awful that interface was by modern standards).
If that bothers you, you might want to step up to DSL's big brother "DSL-Not" which has a newer kernel and the apps use a more modern gnome style file browser. The downside is that on older hardware it boots slower.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Seems to fit all your requirements.
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http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/Pr
There's at least one on ebay for $150.
1. DSL runs off of a CD or USB key
2. They have a simple system for customizing and even remastering the DSL package so you can just make the changes and a new CD *easily*.
Really, just use a simple computer with a lot of RAM, no hard drive, an optical drive, and any of the live cd distros out there. That's as close and as cheap and functional and secure as you can get without a lot of hoop jumping. The mini distros are perfect, they run entirely in the RAM and get ejected after booting, freeing up the drive to put other disks in if you want to. You could also just skip the optical drive and use a USB flash drive and keep it locked to read only if you wanted to.
If you want to get a new one the $1,199 one is a good one as the $999 has half the ram, no SuperDrive, and shared ram.
Also most dsl, or cable internet is as cheap as dial up and most isp are shipping modems with build in nat some even have firewalls.
Actually, if you rebuilt the i-Opener software in QNX with QNX 6.3, the current version, you'd get a new browser that supports more modern web sites. You just have to build a distro with the pieces you need, use "mkifs" to build a ROMable image with the components needed, and burn a new ROM.
It would cost about $8000 to buy a QNX development seat, but you could distribute the resulting software. You can get a free 30 day trial version, and after 30 days, the Eclipse IDE turns off, as does "QCC", the front end to gcc that makes it take POSIX command line options. Everything else still works.
Sadly, QNX backed away from their "open QNX" effort of 2002, and the system is now more proprietary and more expensive.
I tend to like Austrumi linux (same deal, 50 megs), but it really needs someone who knows what they are doing to do an english language version. I would call it a half english distro at this point, but if you can live with some of the menus/apps being not english (such as mplayer, the default media player), it is very nice and functional and fast. I tried but I fail it on making one, perhaps I'll try again. But dialup and ethernet connection work great, the browser is fine, etc. It's wicked fast once it is booted, much faster than any installed to harddrive version of any OS on any machine that I have ever tried.
The closest thing I can think of is a MSN TV device. Apparently, they still make them(!).
http://www.msntv.com/pc/
I don't see why the small systems are so expensive. I can go to frys and buy a AMD 64 3200 with a MB for $99, while the 800MHz via CPU and MB are $118. The only thing they have going for them is that they are small and low power. I am looking for a low power solution with gigabit and SATA raid to use as a NAS, but nothing looks good. The low power is important because I don't want to have fans running all the time. Pentium III system have low power, but no gigabit and no SATA.
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
Nobody was really interested in that sort of thing. The prices were too close
to a real PC to make it compelling except with people looking for a locked down
appliance type configuration- and I know for a fact there weren't any takers
because I'd not have experienced the downturn from the dot-bomb and 9/11 quite
so severely otherwise.
The closest thing would be to snag something like DSL (DamnSmallLinux), Knoppix,
or similar, add a smallish USB or IDE flash disk to the CHEAPEST computer you
can find.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Get an iMac or a Mac Mini and set it up to run in Kiosk mode.
Cheap, Zero fuss, available anywhere and it's cool.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I'm sorry but it wasn't until the G5 that certain things like scrolling etc started to "feel" smooth on OS X. Your suggesting using a G3 with 128-256? Even for just getting the web browser open its gonna crawl bad. Hope you don't ever want to go to a site that has multimedia embedded.
Why is everyone telling him to buy his dad a Mac and put Linux on it? that makes no sense at all.
Buy a mac mini and cheap LCD or an iMac.
Get OS X updated and ready to go.
Create a new account with "Simple Finder" enabled. Give your dad access to Safari, Mail, Text Edit, QuickTime, and maybe Chess. Plus any other apps you feel would be useful.
Keep the administrator account on there, and when it needs updating come over and do it.
...and that's all there is to it.
You don't need to run Windows on it - any popular LiveCD Linux version should do fine, and as other people have commented, you can partition the hard drive and run a read-only version from that to make it faster and more reliable, or even boot from a flash memory stick if the laptop BIOS is new enough (though you'd want to find a flash with a read-only switch, which a number of brands have these days.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Although most laptops today have builtin winmodems (with what would normally be hardware implemented in the software drivers themselves) that don't usually work with most linux distros out of the box, there is still support for winmodems running as "linmodems" avaliable. Using the "scanmodem" tool (http://linmodems.technion.ac.il/#scanmodemread more here) I quickly found out what drivers I required and installing them was a painless process.
Should do the trick... Small factor, linux based, luggable, has internet acces and can connect with WiFi or RJ45...
369Eu, should be cheaper in the US...
Deal ?
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Maybe you could tell us what else you're looking for? If you set Linux so a user can't write to the HD then it's pretty close. Maybe add a script to run on boot-up to dial up and then launch firefox? Yes, you're theoretically vulnerable to a small number of hacks that gain super-user access, but unless you want to re-image or modify a live CD you're going to be in for a hard time.
IANA*
..browzar to the machine so that it will be simple to use and secure.
Sig: I stole this sig.