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Bank Accounts of 5,000 UK Terror Suspects Tracked
Juha-Matti Laurio writes to mention an article over at the Guardian, reporting on the surveillance of over 5,000 bank accounts in the interests of terrorist tracking. Accounts at such reputable British banks as HSBC, Barclay, and Lloyds TSB are having their activity tracked for 'suspicious activity'. Financial details from these banks, it turns out, was part of the trail of evidence used to apprehend terrorism suspects in a plot to bomb airplanes last month. From the article: "However, the extent of the banks' involvement in neutering the terrorist threat has sparked a fierce backlash from some British Muslims amid claims of mistaken identities and the persecution of innocent account-holders. Ahmed Salama was stunned when his HSBC account was frozen nine days ago. He received a letter informing him that HSBC wished to end their relationship after 11 years. The decision left Salama unable to pay 12 bills and his mortgage. Despite repeatedly asking for an explanation, HSBC has only told him it detected 'suspicious' payments in his account."
Mortgage £750
Gas £90
Electric £45
Sky £37
Guns_r_us £917
Telephone £67
Getting your name on the no fly list, priceless.
liqbase
Before you get your account suspended, make sure you're in serious severe debt.
I'd rather have a 0.00000001% chance of being blown up by terrorist events organized by the government, than to live under the draconian restrictions on freedom the same government pushes allegedly in response to those said terrorist events.
Some people assume that fascism is something that happened in Italy pre WW2 or something. They never entertain the thought that germans, italians and spanish people didn't see it coming until it was too late to do anything about it. Why do the british/american people delude themselves under the false assumption that it could never happen with them?
There is nothing inherent in a democratic system apart from the constant watch of the people that stops the system from becoming undemocratic and fascist. The leaders generally work towards that state, however well intentioned they might be.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
And here we see the consequences of a shoot-first, ask-questions-later policy to fighting crime/terrorism/whatever we're calling it today. The law should protect people from this kind of mistake, not encourage it.
The really insidious thing, of course, isn't that the mistake happened -- no-one's perfect, certainly not banks and government departments -- but that there is little the victim of such a mistake can do, since the system is designed to stonewall them on the basis that they're in the wrong. In other words, the system assumes it is perfect. This sort of situation, where the little guy is being screwed by the big guy with the government's blessing, is exactly why things like constitutional safeguards, civil liberties and due process are important.
And yes, I am bitter. I have had problems of a similar type, in my case by a random civil service staffer making a simple mistake in entering an ID number on their system, fluking my number instead of someone else's, and leaving me with several months of being out of pocket and wasting hours trying to get the problem fixed. That was not long after I started my first job, when I had precious little in the way of savings and a very tight budget, and it nearly left me unable to pay my rent.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Oh, yes...the 'liquid explosive' plot.
The 'plot' where the alleged terrorists had no plane tickets and no bombs, and some of them didn't even have passports .
The 'plot' which alledeg the terrorists' intentions to synthesize TATP on board an airplane...a procedure that is ridiculously farfetched and manifestly impossible.
Ah, yes...that plot. I feel much safer now, now that some poor slob who has the misfortune of having an Arab name won't be able to pay his mortgage. That'll show those terrists the strength of our resolve!
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Can't pay your bills, can't pay your mortgage, have your credit rating plummet, forget about renewing your mortgage, forget about getting that loan.
Who needs terror from abroad when there's enough domestic terror?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
He made a cross border payment to a "charity" in Afghanistan. There was a program on the T.V. in the U.K. less than a month ago that showed what some of these "charities" in occupied Palestine did with the money they where getting from the U.K. Lets just say it was *VERY* disturbing. Quite why you would make a cross border payment of 20GBP is another matter. It would have cost him more than that to make the payment, and there are plenty of reputable U.K. or international based charities working in Afghanistan that would have taken his money.
Did he do something suspicious, sure as hell he did. Is he innocent, quite possibly. However that does not change the fact that banks can and do routinely suspend accounts that have suspicious activity on them, and it does not just extend to terrorism. It happens all the time due to specious fraudulant activity, sometimes comited by random third party crimials.
Has tho good old cash withdrawal and paying for things with cash dryed out?
Yes. In the UK, 99% of employers will only pay wages into a bank account. It's also quite common to pay bills, mortgage etc. through direct debit - because our banks are quite tightly regulated, this isn't a huge concern to most. A direct debit taken in error can be revoked on a moment's notice - and it's not unknown for some organisations (including mortgage lenders) to stipluate that they're paid by direct debit.
So if you happen to be a normal person with a job, a car, a house and a mortgage - having your bank account frozen is a MAJOR pain in the backside.
Besides which, if you're account is frozen, how are you supposed to withdraw cash?
25% of British Muslims believe the 7/7 bombings were justified.
When asked, "Is Britain my country?" only one in four British Muslims it is. Thirty percent of British Muslims would prefer to live under Sharia law than under British law. Half of those British Muslims who express a preference for living under Sharia law say that, given the choice, they would move to a country governed by those laws.
Twenty-eight percent of Brirish Muslims hope for the U.K. one day to become a fundamentalist Islamic state.
Enough said. Keep monitoring those bank accounts.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Wake up, folks! We're not talking about a handful of misguided individuals, like a Unabomber, nor a tiny sect like the Branch Davidian or whatever. We're talking about a loosely flung organization of thousands, with millions of supporters or at least sympathizers behind them. Their goal isn't to blow up a few people; while many view 9/11 as a global disaster, I consider it little more than a minor skirmish in an ongoing cultural war with much bigger stakes. 9/11 was successful beyond the wildest expectations of its perpetrators, and directly affected maybe 10,000 or 20,000 people - the victims and their families. But Islamic fundamentalists plan nothing short of overthrowing our governments and replacing them with the rule of foaming-at-the mouth religious zealots even worse than the ones currently ruling the US. This would affect hundreds of millions of people, perhaps for generations. Or, to put it into terms even your mouth-breathing neighbor would understand: They want to take away your booze and your porn and make you pray and bang your head on the ground five times a day! You could keep your guns, though, because killing each other seems to be an important facet of Muslim life.
In view of this danger, I have no problem with the government
and generally taking a tough stance. I believe that the stakes are nothing less than the continued existence of Western civilization as we know it.
At the same time, I expect our governments to proceed fairly and appropriately. That sounds very wishy-washy, so I'll add some clarifying examples:
At the same time, I recommend dealing severely with attempts by anyone: politicians, law makers or law enforcers to commandeer for unrelated purposes those special powers implemented for dealing with national threats. I'm talking loss of office, heavy fines, even imprisonment for such abuses. The danger of our system being destroyed from within is just as grave as from without, and must be resisted. If we drop all the accomplishments of centuries of civilization and justice at the mention of the word "terrorist" then –to quote a
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Rel
The parent is correct and I would go as far as saying the UK banking system is more mature than the banking system in the US (having banked in the UK and US and knowing many people from both). When it comes to moving money around, everybody needs a bank account in the UK. Many services will allow cash payments but only through a long-winded payment process which typically incurs charges, whereas direct debit (basically a rapid, regulated, consistent bank transfer) will normally get you discounts. Credit cards are accepted by a lot of places for paying bills, but if you want to pay rent or a mortgage, 90% of the time there is no choice other than a direct debit (or a very hefty processing charge for cheques/money orders). There are many convenient things about having such an integrated banking system (no charges for cash withdrawals from the vast majority of ATMs, regardless of your bank and the bank of the ATM for one), but losing the ability to use cash to much of a degree is one of the downsides.
Warhammer forums
The last terrorist attack in London cost around £3,000 to finance. Think about that for a second. Ten people could each have paid £300. You can withdraw that much from a cash machine over a couple of weeks without raising any alarms.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I really hate comments like this. Do you have any real evidence proving that there was no plot?
No. And I don't have any real evidence proving you are not a terrorist.
GUARDS!
(Doesn't the government have a case to prove first? Or do you just believe everything they say?)
Lies about crimes