Grannies and Pirated Software

dthomas731 writes, "After reading Ed Foster's blog about how the Embroidery Software Protection Coalition (ESPC) is suing grandmothers over using pirated digitized designs, I thought you might want to call your own grandmothers and tell them they are going to be needing a lawyer. And the ESPC is very serious. On the ESPC faq page they scare these grandmothers by telling them even if they didn't know the software was pirated, that 'Unfortunately, when it comes to copyright violations, ignorance is no defense.'"

Comments

hmmmm, a way to make money?

[yagu]

This almost seems a new (or not so new) trend, and a way to make money above and beyond having a product, though ostensibly "having a product" is where one should start (are you listening RIAA?). So now after seeing the apparent success of legal scare tactics by RIAA and others, the embroidery industry is piling on?

Should we be enraged? Or should we jump in too, cull the internet, everything, for any evidence of anyone, any group, etc. with even the remotest hint of infringing on something you can claim you own?

Don't worry too much about specifics (read the article, the legal threatening letter isn't specific enough to tell Granny what CD she has that infringes), and raise legal bloody hell. This could be more profitable than spam. With a modicum of respondents "paying up", one could conceivably collect rather large sums.

The internet does provide the ability to spread intellectual property instantaneously, and similarly provides amazing tools to sniff out where stuff is, intentionally or otherwise. Unfortunately, most of the "pirated" booty is "otherwise", i.e., the perpertrator has no awareness. These "perpetrators" are not the problem. They should be left alone. Enough already.

(Aside: I really would be curious to how prevalent this (these) letter(s) is (are). Are they really doing this? How many letters have they sent. The article mentions contacting your states attorney, alas, the demographic targeted here is not likely to know that, and probably not privy to /. for reference to this article. Sigh.)

Re:hmmmm, a way to make money?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Thanks to the US Congress the (C) symbol and registering is no longer a requirement. Copyright is automatic.

The US Congress had nothing to do with it, the Berne convention did. Just so you don't have to look it up, Berne is in Switzerland. Yes, we became signatories to the convention a LONG time later, but it was hardly a US creation.

Re:hmmmm, a way to make money?

[dr.badass]

There has to be PLENTY of people into embroidery that have the skills to design their own patterns right?

You'd be surprised. I know I was when my dad's wife started a home-based embroidery business. While there is cheap (~$200) and simple embroidery design software, the mid- to high-end of the market is more like CAD/CAM territory, with a similar level of skill needed. We're talking $15,000 software for your $150,000 machine. The designs being pirated here probably for this latter kind of work.

Re:hmmmm, a way to make money?

[Suidae]

Just some random thoughts on the subject:

The machines that this concerns are usually Pfaff or a competitor (thats pronounced f-ah-f). They are priced anywhere from $3000 to $9000, with a huge variation in price depending on which independent dealer you get screwed by.. er, purchase from. Dealer support is a big factor, the machines do occasionally need service and the users need training. A good dealer makes a big difference in the end-user experience. Shop around and rely on reputations of dealers within the community. Buy locally if you can, many dealers refuse to support equipment they didn't sell.

The machines are precision, high quality CNC systems, very cool. You can upgrade the software in some of the low-end models to the software for the high-end systems and end up with all the capabilities of the over-priced high end system for the fairly reasonable (considering the quality and capability of the machine) lower price. The machines are usually USB connected and allow firmware upgrades. Maybe it'll run linux (but I'll bet whatever motion control software its got on it is vastly superiour to EMC).

The computer software is expensive, dumb and crappy. The users are typically not computer-savvy, and, predictably, often were born before transistors were invented. Unfortunately these users have odd ideas about computers and the software that runs on them. They expect it to work without fiddling with it. Like their Caddy, they want to turn it on, point it where they want to go and have it go there.

The software for producing new designs (in a non-stupid or non-trivial way) is not free or cheap. People who pay for it generally want to make some money doing it. There is a significant amount of work involved in the production of a single design (artwork, CAD work, color selection, ordering of color application, time and materials spent embroidering test verions, etc), and a library of designs can represent many hundreds of man-hours. Unlike most computer software development, you cannot do this (well) without paying for some consumables and access to the embroidery machine.

These people are not compatible with a release-early-release-often software development strategy. You give them a working finished product with a one-click install, a very intuitive interface and simple video-based help system.

The majority of them do not want to produce their own designs. They'd rather spend the time at their craft not producing artwork on a computer. There are exceptions (power-users within the community), but they are few and far-between.

Remember those books that used to come with clip-art CDs? A lot of them like those books. They can sit down with the book, look through it, dog-ear pages with stuff they like, take it with them in their sewing bag, etc.

Most of these people do not use the computer to find new software. They browse extensively at quilt and craft shops, they go to craft retreats to socialize with their friends, and a few of them participate in internet forums (about.com, yahoo groups). Acquiring a userbase for new software would not be a matter of dropping it on sourceforge and waiting.

I don't mean this to sound negative, I just want to point out that the consumers of this product have needs that an ivory-tower developer would not anticipate. There is a lot of interesting potential for software, but anyone who wants the software to be widely used must be very conscious of how the users interact with computers and each other. The developer should actively join the community (or if he feels too girly working with textiles, get his mother or grandmother to do so and tag along) to see what is needed and how to make a successful package.

You can see (and often play with) the machines and software at places like Joanne's or an independent local dealer.

ther FAQ is sickening.

[geekoid]

"What if I am innocent and did not know the designs or software were counterfeit when I purchased the designs?

            It is your responsibility to investigate any designs or software that you purchased over the Internet or from online auctions. You must take steps to insure that they are legitimate original embroidery designs or software, not pirated copies."

Great, so now we need to research every product we buy to be sure the company didn't do anything illegal.

I think not.

Fake?

[Cheeziologist]

Does this story not strike anyone else as to be so ridiculous that it must be one of those things set up just to see what community reaction is like? Like a researcher at a university doing a sociology experiment. I mean..."Embroidery Software Protection Coalition"...come on!

Re:"/." ignorance is defensable.

[jr87]

well ignorance is a defense if they are not the copiers themselves, just the person making copies and selling/giving them are the guilty party. That's just copyright.

Re:"/." ignorance is defensable.

[morgan_greywolf]

Yep. There's a difference between "willful" copyright violation and "incidental" copyright violation. Guess which one allows you to collect more damages?

Embroidery Machines

[beadfulthings]

I want to express this with all due respect to the grannies involved, as I'm certain this has come as a shock to some of them.

However (ahem). Today's sewing/embroidery machines aren't the straight-needle treadle-operated Singers of yore. They come equipped with flash drives, USB ports, CD/DVD drives, and network connections. Many are Internet-upgradeable. Even to buy in at the low end of the market, you have to come up with about $1,500 - $3,000. Upwards of $5,000 gets you a respectably flexible and powerful system. Manufacturers who formerly dealt only in industrial sewing machines (such as Juki) seem now to be involved in the home market. Manufacturers of traditionally high-end home machines (Viking comes to mind) have a glittering array of semi-professional options with price tags to match. They are also specialized, with machines available for embroidery, quilting, overcasting seams in garments--lots of features formerly available only in industry.

I guess what I'm saying is that you have to come up with a fairly substantial investment to get into this game in the first place. Maybe what we need is an open-source embroidery pattern movement (Tux would make a cute embroidery pattern), but a lot of these designs are licensed (such as Disney characters), and to me it stands to reason one would have to shell out substantial money for them.

It's also a bit of a slap in the face at the idea of the ditzy old lady bereft of any technical smarts at all. Not the case if she's just logged into Husqvarna for the latest update to her Viking SE.

Re:Cue massive backlash in 3...2...1...

[Anonymous Custard]

I had to look it up to tell if it was a joke...

http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/ESPC_v_Ebert/

No joke.

Re:Francisco Rangel

[KwKSilver]

Interestingly, further google-work led me to this page, an arson case grief provied the site by the ATF. A Francisco Rangel was involved in some business involving computer theft ($1.5 million) and arson ($4.5 million) in the vicinity of Carrollton, Texas [Area code 202, back in 1995 and is still wanted on various Federal and State charges related to that stuff

Re:I'm torn

[RimfoMan]

Don't be too torn.. The ESPC is tring to also wipe out any small player (like your mother) They have shutdown several independent designers, who were selling original designs, by threatening them and their customers.

There was some good coverage on this about a year ago on a loca TV station, WNDU-TV in South Bend, IN.
Here is the link.. http://www.wndu.com/news/contact16/092005/contact1 6_44586.php

====
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my
friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views
of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the
writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to
go outside NOW!

Re:But maybe they're right...

[vorpal22]

You only have two choices in this debate...to pay and use, or to keep your money and not use.

I disagree. I think that there's an entirely reasonable third choice: (1) to pay and use when the price is reasonable and the company behind the product respects us, and (2) to protest through whatever means we feel are appropriate when the price to end users is completely absurd or the company treats us like garbage.

Who's up for some for fun with skype?

[loraksus]

Call ONLY the Legal Department of the ESPC at 214. 350.1892

Would hate to be checking messages on their machine tommorow.

And yes, I'm saying go and call. These groups should realize that threatening the buyers with lawsuits and prison time will not go without retalitation. This is the equivalent of the RIAA hunting down the people who bought copies of professionally pirated, legitimate looking cds and demanding settlements or threatening to sue. While a C&D may be appropriate, legal threats are not. Harrassment of the victims is just despicable.
Fuck them and their $300 settlement.

My favorite quote ...

[pamdirac]

And as an individual, you can spread the word that sharing is stealing.

Surely even the ass clown that wrote this FAQ had to appreciate the double-speak. Good is evil. Awesome.

Re:not quite correct.

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

What do the courts say about that?