Is the Do Not Call System Working?

BrentRJones writes "I signed up for the Do Not Call registry the first day I heard of it, and I have to say that I have gotten very few telemarketers calling over the past couple of years. However, there now seems to be more calls that start, 'This is a survey...' or some other such excuse. I do not mind getting a few charity appeals or calls from those I have done business with in the past, but I do wish that I could avoid the political phone calls. I am curious what other Slashdot folks are experiencing, and I am also wondering if I say, 'Please remove from any list that you have.' when I am called, will this do any good?"

Comments

"Your do not call list"

[Southpaw018]

I worked for the telemarketing department at MBNA for a while. They're a good company, and while it wasn't my favorite job ever, MBNA is a good business, and they follow the telemarketing rules. (If it's any testament, I carry an MBNA credit card.)

Anyhow, in answer to the second part of your question: If you say "take me off your list" or "don't call here again," if the telemarketers are following the rules - and they're subject to MASSIVE fines if they're not (like $1000+ per phone call in violation), your phone number will be removed from the marketing programs you mentioned for two years (or if you say "all" your lists, all their marketing programs).

The magic words are "do not call list" or "ever." The better choice is "do not call list." If you say "Don't call here," it's still two years. However, if you say "Do not call here ever again," or if you say the magic phrase "Add me to your do not call list," your phone number will be added to their federally mandated do not call list for a period of ten years. Also note that once you say one of those two phrases, they are required to give the three pieces of information they need for every call if they have not yet mentioned them, and then terminate the call immediately. (These include their full company name, a telephone number at which they can be reached, and....the third I don't remember. Oops. But! I do remember MBNA being so paranoid about it that we were even required to say the phone number to dead air if someone hung up on us - it was always the last thing you gave them, and we were recorded every second we were on the clock, even while not on a call.)
Again, this is if they're following the rules. No one likes a telemarketing call at dinnertime, but the bad guys do a hell of a lot worse than that.

Oh, and I can't comment on surveys or political calls. This is just commercial stuff - the guys who aren't out to make $ have looser rules.

Re:"Your do not call list"

[Nephilium]

Personally... when I get a telemarketer, I do my utmost to make their job as uncomfortable as possible... since they initiated the conversation, their time is now mine... If I'm rushed, a simple, "What are you wearing right now?" usually gets them to hang up...

You can also go for the phone-sex line style stuff... and start asking for a credit card number...

Nephilium

Be always drunken. Nothing else matters. If you would not feel the horrible burden of Time weighing on your shoulders and crushing you to the earth, be drunken continually. -- Charles Baudelaire, French poet

Re:"Your do not call list"

[RobertLTux]

(4) Identification of sellers and telemarketers. A person or entity
making a call for telemarketing purposes must provide the called party
with the name of the individual caller, the name of the person or entity
on whose behalf the call is being made, and a telephone number or
address at which the person or entity may be contacted. The telephone
number provided may not be a 900 number or any other number for which
charges exceed local or long distance transmission charges.
direct C&P from
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cg i?TITLE=47&PART=64&SECTION=1200&TYPE=TEXT

Re:"Your do not call list"

[lucabrasi999]

I don't think I've received any calls of a political nature. My guess is that most campaigns realize that cold-calling people will generally a) not get them to vote for you anyhow, if they don't support your party, and b) possibly piss off people who DO support your party already.

In a previous (pre-IT) life, I was paid political consultant (the pay wasn't high, which is why I am now in IT). Anyway, when we called folks, it was usually folks who were very consistent voters. If it was a primary election, we only called voters that had voted in two of the last three primaries. If it was a general, we tended to open up the list a bit more, but, again, we didn't call anyone who hadn't voted last general election.

The primary reason for this was money. Why spend money calling someone that had a less than even chance of showing up at the polls?

Beyond that, our first phone call was usually a straight forward "poll". Would you vote for candidate A, candidate B, or are you undecided? Trust me, when you pick up the phone and someone asks for your opinion, you are more likely to stay on the line. Then, a month or so before the campaign, we would run a "slanted" poll. For those folks that either supported our opponent (candidate B in this example) or were undecided in the first round, we would call them back and ask "Would you vote for candidate B knowing he/she was a lying sack of shit (or some phrase that would echo our most recent negative campaign commercial)"? The goal here was to PUSH the undecideds and opposing voters into either voting for our candidate (candidate A) or not voting at all.

Then, a few days before election, we would go back to our loyal candidates (in general elections, those voters in our party) and encourage them ALL to vote. Get Out the Vote.

Since I never won and election, I am now a stinkin' IT consultant and James Carville/Karl Rove are all either making millions or are about to make millions. But, even though I never won, trust me, this is the usual way of running political phone banks.

Re:"Your do not call list"

[TheWanderingHermit]

Did you know, though, that your registration on the federal Do Not Call list expires after 5 years? I've posted about it in response to a post farther down, but it's worth mentioning again, where people can see it (no, I'm not doing it for karma whoring). It worked for me until this summer when I started getting some calls again, then I checked the website for the gov. list and found out you have to re-register after 5 years.

That's the one piece of information they never told anyone.

Re:"Your do not call list"

[kenf]

Having "call intercept" seems to help alot. Any call originating from a phone with a blocked caller id goes to a telco system that tells the caller the customer is not accepting caller id blocked calls and they can have their name phoned to the customer who can decide if they want the call. Many telemarketers block their caller id, and disconnect when they get the telco message. This plus the do not call list has eliminated most unwanted calls for me.

VOIP + spoofing caller ID

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

When the do not call lists started it worked for some time. Now a days I get blatant sales calls from (India mainly) and they spoof the caller ID system. I yell at them for violating the law, but they know they cant be caught. One option would be to listen to the pitch patiently and agree to buy whatever they are selling. Then they transfer you to some one in US for verification. When the actual vendor (usually it is DishNetwork or DirecTV in my case) comes on line, lodge a protest and threaten to call FCC. But so far I have not had the patience. So I just yell at them, call them names and hang up.

Sue Them

[KalvinB]

http://suntasiasucks.icarusindie.com/

I recently sued Suntasia for violating the TCPA and settled in my favor. The whole story is posted on the site. I got less than I requested but they hired a very expensive lawyer which they have to pay for so I got what I wanted: money out of their pockets.

The hard part is figuring out who they are since all you have, if you're lucky, is the phone number. After that you have to do your homework on the law and try not to be intimidated by their lawyer if they hire one. Suntasia is rather infamous around the states so information was pretty easy to find. A phone number was all we needed to get started.

If they're not doing anything illegal then all you can do is not answer your phone or request they stop calling you. They don't have to honor the national list but I'd be very surprised if any organization could get away will calling you after you specifically told them not to. And those requests go into effect immediately.

It's very simple

[hopbine]

All I do is say " OK I charge $25.00 for answering surveys.. Who do I bill." It's interesting the answers I get

Naturally Political Groups have exceptions

[ctaylor]

I don't quite understand why your think the Do Not Call list will stop you from getting calls from political groups. They have an exception and do not abide by the Do Not Call registry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call

Did anyone seriously think the writers of that law would harm their own cash flow?

Personally, it's been very successful for me. I can't remember the last telemarketer I had to hang up on. Unfortunately, my kids have aged and can actually speak now. It was much more fun when they were still babies and I passed the receiver off to them. "Goo-goo-ga-ga" pretty much ends any solicitation.

Absolutely correct...

[Pollux]

From the submission: I am curious what other Slashdot folks are experiencing, and I am also wondering if I say, 'Please remove from any list that you have.' when I am called, will this do any good?"

From the parent post: Also note that once you say one of those two phrases, they are required to give the three pieces of information they need for every call if they have not yet mentioned them, and then terminate the call immediately...Again, this is if they're following the rules.

That phrase right there sums it all up. I heard this exact same explanation from a student of mine at school who worked for a legit telemarketer. If you say the magic words, "Add me to your do not call list," they are required to follow the rules and do follow the rules. If they do not follow the rules, they will be fined big time by the FCC. However, the US is powerless against some calling agency operating out of Costa Rica, who doesn't give a rip about telecommunication laws. These people will war-dial phone numbers at unscrupulous hours of the evening, varying their tactics anywhere from constant nagging to actually demanding that you buy from them, even sometimes claiming that you've already established an "oral agreement" to make a purchase that you cannot back down from without penalty. (I've heard stories of telemarketers saying anything from, "We already have your name and address, and we will file suit if you break your oral agreement," to, "We have your banking account information, have this conversation recorded for proof of transaction, and we will proceed with making an electronic withdrawl from your checking account whether you like it or not.")

The national do-not-call list will help keep the legit soliciters at bay. But the bad guys...well...international law is a bitch.

Re:Absolutely correct...

[TheRecklessWanderer]

The national do-not-call list will help keep the legit soliciters at bay. But the bad guys...well...international law is a bitch. International law really has nothing to do with do not call lists. It's all about treaties and human rights and international organizations and other cool things. International lawyers refer to legal systems within a country as "municipal", and municipal law has nothing to do with international law, except that a signatory to a treaty is required to have it's legal system enforce the articles in a treaty. That's why China never signed the treaties for human rights. Having said that, I hate telemarketers more than people who kick puppies.

Re:Absolutely correct...

[plover]

I've heard stories of telemarketers saying anything

I wouldn't know if I ever got a call like that because I never let a telemarketing call last that long. I've been squacking the same phrase at telemarketers for the last 5 years or so: "Please add me to your do-not-call list and never call this number again." I politely say it at the first break in conversation I get from them, or I interrupt them after just a few seconds if they begin their shpiel without a pause. Usually I get an "OK", at which point I hang up; but some times I get an argument or a question from them, at which point I enunciate the phrase in a less-friendly voice and wait for a positive confirmation before hanging up.

What I haven't done is 'track' any of these telemarketers. As far as I can tell they never call back -- a non-communicative party who doesn't listen to them never translates into a sale, and they have an endless supply of other numbers to call.

The Federal do-not-call list seems to be working fairly well. We do not get nearly the number of calls we used to get (although political and charitable calls haven't dropped.) The phrase also appears to have stopped the polling firms, who used to be the worst time sinks. You'll find my f'ing opinion after election day along with the rest of America, thank you very nothing.

What does NOT work is to screen telemarketers with Caller ID (which is what my wife does.) She doesn't answer when it says something like "CRAPPY CARPET CLEANERS", or she'll tell me "don't answer, it's those damn carpet people again." But they'll call back over and over and over for like a week or two. Finally, I'll answer with my magic phrase, and lo! they quit calling instantly. It's easier on everybody to be brisk with them earlier rather than later.

Paul from the Prize Claim Center

[Zeinfeld]

I have received several calls from someone calling themselves 'Paul from the Prize claim center'. I put the number on my blog and I now get something like 50 people a day finding the site by searching for the telephone number.

There is also a Markus from some mortgage company doing the same thing.

In each case the outbound calls are from a robo-dialer that only starts if it gets a voice mail. When I called up the telephone number they gave I got a real person which was something of a suprise. They hung up when I pointed out that their operation was facing huge civil and criminal penalties.

What I should have done but haven't got round to yet was to dial up the number several times to work out how many people are working for them.

Re:You should mind...

[TheWanderingHermit]

One that should be exempted: I often get calls from policeman or fireman funds. They talk like they're going to do all these wonderful things for those groups. Then I ask them how much of my donation goes to the group. I get puzzled responses. I explain and say, "If I give you $100, how much of it goes to the charity you're supporting?" That always leaves the caller puzzled. Finally some explain that they promise to donate at least $100,000 to the fund. Then I ask if it's local or nationwide. They don't know. They don't even know where I am. I ask if $100,000 for a fund that's nationwide for injured police sounds like much, since that comes to $2,000 per state. They're still puzzled.

If they're still on, wasting all that time with me, I know they're in trouble because that call is driving their average call time way up and the boss doesn't like it. So, in the interest of educating them about charities and to make sure their boss educates them about call time, I keep going. I explain that good charities will give most of what they get to the work they're doing. I deal with some that give something between 75-80% of all they raise to the work they're doing. I explain that true charities, when doing fundraisers, tell people how much of each dollar goes to the charity and how much goes to other costs (like ads or admin). Then I point out that they say they're giving $100,000 to a nationwide fund, but what if they raise over half a million -- who gets the other $400,000? That's a lot of money for someone to make when they imply it's all going to charity.

By then they've either hung up or they're so amazed by what I've said that you can already hear the tone in their voice indicating they just don't believe in their job anymore.

Re:Political Groups

[carpeweb]

Political speech is vital free speech, and always legal.

Well, it's legal in this case, but it has nothing to do with our constitutional notion of free speech or the intellectual foundations of liberal democracy. Free speech does not establish an obligation for anyone to listen. IMNSHO, the proper intellectual and (arguably) constitutional framework here should be the right of privacy. All calls should be banned (for anyone registering). Different categories of registration would satisfy my objections, too, but might be too complicated and create even more loopholes.

Hello,wouldyouliketoparticipateinaquicksurvey...

[cskrat]

...itwillonlytake63secondsandonebreathformetoblurt outayesornoquestion...

I just got one of these last week asking for my opinion about the film and tv ratings systems. When I started to actually say what I thought about the system ( three digit body count = PG13 while a nipple = NC17 ) she hung up without even bothering to cut me off. I may have spent as much as 40 seconds discussing the issue with dead air and I was very disappointed that I wasn't really given a chance to string her along for as long as I'd have liked.

The police and fire department charities are a bit more pleasant to work with. My best for a police call was when I asked if they'd found my car yet. My best fire call, I had a friend nearby to help me with this, I set off the smoke detector with a cigarette, dropped the phone on the counter and yelled at my friend for not watching the stove while I got the phone. That one went through some cursing, clanking and the sound of me unloading a bottle of shaving cream next to the phone (to simulate a fire extinguisher) before I picked up the phone asked "who are you again?" and then following their response with "Oh.. thank you for calling but I think we have it handled."

Cheese

[Aardpig]

A few months ago, I went out and actively solicited calls from telemarketers. How? By signing up to a mortgage website, giving a false name (Jack B. Morocco), a false address, but a valid phone number. Why? Because those running the mortgage website spammed me, and I was interested to follow the money back to the bona fide mortgage companies that were financing the spammers.

A few days after I signed up, the phone calls began. Usually, when the caller asked to speak to Jack, I would tell them that I would fetch him to the phone. I would then set the handset down next to the phone, and get back to work. They would typically stay on the line for around 10 minutes, before they hung up.

However, on some occasions I used the cheese method. Basically, to whatever question I was asked, I replied cheese. A sample conversation:

Him Hi, may I speak to Jack?
Me Cheese.
Him I beg your pardon?
Me Cheese.
Him Did you just say cheese?
Me Cheese.
Him I'm trying to speak to Jack.
Me Cheese?
Him Look, I don't have any time to waste
Me Cheese.

(The last remark was particularly funny, in light of the huge amounts of others' time this company had wasted by funding spammers).

On one special occasion, I was called by someone in an overseas call center. They stuck religiously to the script, despite the fact that I was cheesing them at every turn. Slowly, it became clear to them that something was not quite right -- but it took them a while, because I don't think their grasp of English was perfect. Eventually, they ended the call with "OK, Jack, you really sound good, I'm sorry to bother you, goodbye."

To which I replied cheese.

If you want a slice of the action, why not reply to the next mortgage spammer yourself? Make sure you give a fake address but a real number, so that they can get through to you. Oh, and it would be fun if you signed up as Jack/Jane B. Morocco. And don't forget the cheese!

Re:Bastards

[ctaylor]

You can verify your registration on the DNC list:

https://www.donotcall.gov/confirm/Conf.aspx

They will send you a nice email that looks something like this:

"Your phone number with the last four digits XXXX was registered in the National Do Not Call Registry on 10/13/2003. Most telemarketers will be required to stop calling you 31 days from your registration date. Your registration will (or did) expire on 3/26/2010.

Visit www.donotcall.gov to do any of these things:
-- to renew your registration before it expires
-- to file a complaint

Print this email and keep it for your records."

I'm not exactly sure why the expiration date is more than 5 years in my case. Something to explore!

Police charity response

[nsayer]

My favorite line for police type charities (usually selling tickets to charity events or raffle tickets or what not) is, "Thanks, but I get enough tickets from cops without buying more of them."

Do what I do - fuck with 'em

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Me (RS): (softly and cooly breathy) Yes...
Telemarketer (T): Hello Mr Spoilsport may I call you Ralph?
RS: I own you...
T: Sorry?
RS: I own your soul...
T: You own what?
RS: I am Sataaan... I know you to the Soooooul... You are mine....
T: May I interest you in (product)?
RS: Come to Sataaaaan... Come to me.... You are mine... I own your soul...
T: (Agitated) Does this sound like something you might be interested in?
RS: Come to Sataaaan... I own your soul... You will rot in hell with me.... Come to me...

etc.

Once this black woman called and I did the Satan routine and she FREAKED OUT. She started crying and hung up. I scored 30 points for that.

Another favourite tack on these creatures:

RS: WHAT?
T: Hello? Is this Mr Spoilsport?
RS: FUCK YOU!
T: What?
RS: FUCK YOU AND YOUR WHORE OF A MOTHER WHO IS SUCKING MY COCK RIGHT NOW YOU SCUM SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!

(click)

I get 20 points for that - It's a brute force approach. It's not that creative and it's kind of mean, so you only get 20 points for it.

Also: there's the classic:

RS: Bobo!
T: Hello? Is this Mr Spoilsport?
RS: Yabba! Tengo bleck nock! Curby flipwitters!
T: Do you speak English?
RS: Me me me speak English!
T: Would you be interested in (product pitch)?
RS: Ama watamela eatie foo!
T: What?
RS: yumma cunt swabber! Peenie drip bubby! Yumma buttlicker!
T: What?
RS: shibby shops! Peeface! Yabba Peeface!

etc. If yo ucan get them to hang up, you get 40 points, because talking like an idiot with a straight face long enough to get them to hang up is pretty hard.

Then there's always:

RS: Yes...
T: hi is this mr Spoilsport?
RS: What's it to you, motherfucker?
T: Sorry?
RS: I'm coming to your house, and I'm going to kill all your pets.

etc. whatever tey say, just march over it and make weid fucked up pseudo threats, like "I'll steal all your garbage" or "I'll pee in your garden" or "I'll get your dog knocked up" etc.

Telemarketers were put on this earth to be abused.

RS

The charitable calls are a legal scam

[silverdirk]

After getting fund raiser calls from various "State Troopers", "Widows of Firefighters", etc charities, I hunted around on google and found out that these are from companies who go around calling charities, and offering to donate somewhat large (on the scale of the organization, which can be small) constant sums of money in exchange for permission to use their name. The "charity" involved can be something as lame as the union for police officers of a particular county. In other words, they might not be in your area, or even be worth donating money to.

The companies then sell this permission to other companies who do the actual calling.

End result is that the charity gets some relatively small cash, and some company gets the ability to farm up mass sums of money in their name.

DO NOT GIVE TO THEM EVER!
... or give them fake donation information... I wonder if that would be legal or not...