Slashdot Mirror
Is the Do Not Call System Working?
BrentRJones writes "I signed up for the Do Not Call registry the first day I heard of it, and I have to say that I have gotten very few telemarketers calling over the past couple of years. However, there now seems to be more calls that start, 'This is a survey...' or some other such excuse. I do not mind getting a few charity appeals or calls from those I have done business with in the past, but I do wish that I could avoid the political phone calls. I am curious what other Slashdot folks are experiencing, and I am also wondering if I say, 'Please remove from any list that you have.' when I am called, will this do any good?"
I worked for the telemarketing department at MBNA for a while. They're a good company, and while it wasn't my favorite job ever, MBNA is a good business, and they follow the telemarketing rules. (If it's any testament, I carry an MBNA credit card.)
Anyhow, in answer to the second part of your question: If you say "take me off your list" or "don't call here again," if the telemarketers are following the rules - and they're subject to MASSIVE fines if they're not (like $1000+ per phone call in violation), your phone number will be removed from the marketing programs you mentioned for two years (or if you say "all" your lists, all their marketing programs).
The magic words are "do not call list" or "ever." The better choice is "do not call list." If you say "Don't call here," it's still two years. However, if you say "Do not call here ever again," or if you say the magic phrase "Add me to your do not call list," your phone number will be added to their federally mandated do not call list for a period of ten years. Also note that once you say one of those two phrases, they are required to give the three pieces of information they need for every call if they have not yet mentioned them, and then terminate the call immediately. (These include their full company name, a telephone number at which they can be reached, and....the third I don't remember. Oops. But! I do remember MBNA being so paranoid about it that we were even required to say the phone number to dead air if someone hung up on us - it was always the last thing you gave them, and we were recorded every second we were on the clock, even while not on a call.)
Again, this is if they're following the rules. No one likes a telemarketing call at dinnertime, but the bad guys do a hell of a lot worse than that.
Oh, and I can't comment on surveys or political calls. This is just commercial stuff - the guys who aren't out to make $ have looser rules.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Yes, the Do Not Call system works. I'm on the national and state registries, and haven't gotten any telemarketing calls.
e mptOrg
I wouldn't say that any of these other calls are "excuses"; they're classes of calls that are exempt.
It's pretty clear what's exempt:
https://www.donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQBusiness.aspx#Ex
Surveys, among other things, are one of the things that's exempt. "Telemarketing" is "telemarketing". Not someone calling you that you don't want to.
When the do not call lists started it worked for some time. Now a days I get blatant sales calls from (India mainly) and they spoof the caller ID system. I yell at them for violating the law, but they know they cant be caught. One option would be to listen to the pitch patiently and agree to buy whatever they are selling. Then they transfer you to some one in US for verification. When the actual vendor (usually it is DishNetwork or DirecTV in my case) comes on line, lodge a protest and threaten to call FCC. But so far I have not had the patience. So I just yell at them, call them names and hang up.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
http://suntasiasucks.icarusindie.com/
I recently sued Suntasia for violating the TCPA and settled in my favor. The whole story is posted on the site. I got less than I requested but they hired a very expensive lawyer which they have to pay for so I got what I wanted: money out of their pockets.
The hard part is figuring out who they are since all you have, if you're lucky, is the phone number. After that you have to do your homework on the law and try not to be intimidated by their lawyer if they hire one. Suntasia is rather infamous around the states so information was pretty easy to find. A phone number was all we needed to get started.
If they're not doing anything illegal then all you can do is not answer your phone or request they stop calling you. They don't have to honor the national list but I'd be very surprised if any organization could get away will calling you after you specifically told them not to. And those requests go into effect immediately.
Work Safe Porn
All I do is say " OK I charge $25.00 for answering surveys.. Who do I bill." It's interesting the answers I get
Semper ubi sub ubi
i only seem to get phone calls from the police department asking for money. now that's scary...
Somehow I can't see your friendly representative voting to ban political solicitations...
a ll.htm. Seems like most states do the same. Here's florida http://www.800helpfla.com/nosales.html and Tennessee http://www2.state.tn.us/tra/nocall.htm, for example.
They are exempted from the federal rule http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/tmarkg/donotc
I don't quite understand why your think the Do Not Call list will stop you from getting calls from political groups. They have an exception and do not abide by the Do Not Call registry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call
Did anyone seriously think the writers of that law would harm their own cash flow?
Personally, it's been very successful for me. I can't remember the last telemarketer I had to hang up on. Unfortunately, my kids have aged and can actually speak now. It was much more fun when they were still babies and I passed the receiver off to them. "Goo-goo-ga-ga" pretty much ends any solicitation.
I don't get the marketing calls since signing up. The political calls are mostly robo-called (automated system calling, wait for a pickup, wait 10 seconds, play the message). We got that in Maryland, and I'm half tempted to bill for time.
I did get one from the Martin O'Malley campaign, being a democrat in Maryland, from an actual human. She asked "Are you going to support O'Malley for govenor?"(sp?) I told her "In the primaries because I have no choice, but forget it in the general. He's still got work to do in Baltimore (he's mayor there currently), cleaning up the mess that it is, and currently voters are thinking he's trying to escape the problems. So he's not going to get it from me come the elections."
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
From the submission: I am curious what other Slashdot folks are experiencing, and I am also wondering if I say, 'Please remove from any list that you have.' when I am called, will this do any good?"
From the parent post: Also note that once you say one of those two phrases, they are required to give the three pieces of information they need for every call if they have not yet mentioned them, and then terminate the call immediately...Again, this is if they're following the rules.
That phrase right there sums it all up. I heard this exact same explanation from a student of mine at school who worked for a legit telemarketer. If you say the magic words, "Add me to your do not call list," they are required to follow the rules and do follow the rules. If they do not follow the rules, they will be fined big time by the FCC. However, the US is powerless against some calling agency operating out of Costa Rica, who doesn't give a rip about telecommunication laws. These people will war-dial phone numbers at unscrupulous hours of the evening, varying their tactics anywhere from constant nagging to actually demanding that you buy from them, even sometimes claiming that you've already established an "oral agreement" to make a purchase that you cannot back down from without penalty. (I've heard stories of telemarketers saying anything from, "We already have your name and address, and we will file suit if you break your oral agreement," to, "We have your banking account information, have this conversation recorded for proof of transaction, and we will proceed with making an electronic withdrawl from your checking account whether you like it or not.")
The national do-not-call list will help keep the legit soliciters at bay. But the bad guys...well...international law is a bitch.
Politicians were careful to ensure that they could still pander over the phone. Among the other exceptions, the basic rules are that any business you have had contact with for X amount of time can still call you penalty-free. Most not-for-profits can call as well. I should hope that many file complaints on truly irritating or repetative solicitations that don't meet the requirements of the program. You need the company name, phone number, and the date of the offending call.
I have found that rudeness can be pretty effective in stopping future calls, but these are my two favorite methods:
1:
Telemarketer: "Well hello Mr. sporkme, how are you this evening?"
Me: "I am soooo glad you asked. First, I was late for work because my kids made off with the car keys and I had to spend ten minutes digging through a toybox full of legos. Then I got a speeding ticket on my way in. My back has hurt all day, and I'm honestly hoping that you're selling a hemorroid cream of some kind. How is your day going?"
2:
Telemarketer: "Now what would it take to get an order from you today?"
Me: Well, honestly, sales have been down at work. Are you aware that our BXK-31-R is capable of tolerating well over sixty rads per cycle and still produces results within tolerance? This is well in excess of industry standard and we offer free support and service for the first sixty seconds of your contract. How many can I sign you up for?
To the point, It seems to be difficult to find statistical information about the success of the registry. Indiana was one of the first states to implement such a program, and several other states have separate registries (many have merged with the federal one). All I really could find without making a job of it was information on Indiana's success with the state program, and registration numbers for the federal one. Also, here is a summary chart of nationwide complaint volume.
FairTax baby!
I saw a segment on the local news about telemarketer's thoughts on the do not call list. The head of one telemarketing company said that they have no reason to call anyone on the do not call list simply because no one on the do not call list will buy anything you are trying to sell.
The best case scenario is that someone hangs up on you, worst case is they report you to the authorities and you get fined for violating the list. In both cases you gain nothing and only loose time spent calling the person and quite possibly a lot of money too.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
There's another loop hole that most people don't know about and I haven't seen posted here yet.
It expires after 5 years and, believe it or not, it's been around for 5 years.
I had gotten rid of most calls years ago by telling every one to put me on their do not call list. I also got a recording of the "out of order" signal the telco uses and put that on my answering maching, at the start of the tape, and that helped eliminate some calls. If I didn't recognize the number, I'd let the machine get it, and there were some numbers that I used to see show up often but without a message. The telco tone at the start of my tape eliminated some of them. They called once or twice more, got the tone, and stopped showing up. I also know time online is a major issue for marketers, so I'd talk some to death -- keep them on 10-15 minutes and not buy anything. That's way more time then they should spend on the phone even for a sale.
When the do-not-call registry went active, everyone in my family registered all our phone numbers. What few calls I'd still get stopped coming in. Then, a few months ago, I started getting some calls this summer, so I looked up the registry to see if there was a problem and found out that you have to re-register every 5 years to keep your number listed.
If you're getting more calls in the last few months, it's because your registration on the list expired.
Personally, I answer all the survey calls. That way I get to tell them my favorite radio staion and my preferences in movies and other topics they ask about. Considering how few geeks there are out there, I figure it's my way of making sure someone with my tastes gets counted. As for political calls, I can usually spot them on caller ID, so I pick up the phone, then hang up.
is to use the counterscript (assuming I don't hang up).
There is also a Markus from some mortgage company doing the same thing.
In each case the outbound calls are from a robo-dialer that only starts if it gets a voice mail. When I called up the telephone number they gave I got a real person which was something of a suprise. They hung up when I pointed out that their operation was facing huge civil and criminal penalties.
What I should have done but haven't got round to yet was to dial up the number several times to work out how many people are working for them.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
One that should be exempted: I often get calls from policeman or fireman funds. They talk like they're going to do all these wonderful things for those groups. Then I ask them how much of my donation goes to the group. I get puzzled responses. I explain and say, "If I give you $100, how much of it goes to the charity you're supporting?" That always leaves the caller puzzled. Finally some explain that they promise to donate at least $100,000 to the fund. Then I ask if it's local or nationwide. They don't know. They don't even know where I am. I ask if $100,000 for a fund that's nationwide for injured police sounds like much, since that comes to $2,000 per state. They're still puzzled.
If they're still on, wasting all that time with me, I know they're in trouble because that call is driving their average call time way up and the boss doesn't like it. So, in the interest of educating them about charities and to make sure their boss educates them about call time, I keep going. I explain that good charities will give most of what they get to the work they're doing. I deal with some that give something between 75-80% of all they raise to the work they're doing. I explain that true charities, when doing fundraisers, tell people how much of each dollar goes to the charity and how much goes to other costs (like ads or admin). Then I point out that they say they're giving $100,000 to a nationwide fund, but what if they raise over half a million -- who gets the other $400,000? That's a lot of money for someone to make when they imply it's all going to charity.
By then they've either hung up or they're so amazed by what I've said that you can already hear the tone in their voice indicating they just don't believe in their job anymore.
Political speech is vital free speech, and always legal.
Well, it's legal in this case, but it has nothing to do with our constitutional notion of free speech or the intellectual foundations of liberal democracy. Free speech does not establish an obligation for anyone to listen. IMNSHO, the proper intellectual and (arguably) constitutional framework here should be the right of privacy. All calls should be banned (for anyone registering). Different categories of registration would satisfy my objections, too, but might be too complicated and create even more loopholes.
...itwillonlytake63secondsandonebreathformetoblurt outayesornoquestion...
I just got one of these last week asking for my opinion about the film and tv ratings systems. When I started to actually say what I thought about the system ( three digit body count = PG13 while a nipple = NC17 ) she hung up without even bothering to cut me off. I may have spent as much as 40 seconds discussing the issue with dead air and I was very disappointed that I wasn't really given a chance to string her along for as long as I'd have liked.
The police and fire department charities are a bit more pleasant to work with. My best for a police call was when I asked if they'd found my car yet. My best fire call, I had a friend nearby to help me with this, I set off the smoke detector with a cigarette, dropped the phone on the counter and yelled at my friend for not watching the stove while I got the phone. That one went through some cursing, clanking and the sound of me unloading a bottle of shaving cream next to the phone (to simulate a fire extinguisher) before I picked up the phone asked "who are you again?" and then following their response with "Oh.. thank you for calling but I think we have it handled."
My God! It's full of eval()'s.
A few months ago, I went out and actively solicited calls from telemarketers. How? By signing up to a mortgage website, giving a false name (Jack B. Morocco), a false address, but a valid phone number. Why? Because those running the mortgage website spammed me, and I was interested to follow the money back to the bona fide mortgage companies that were financing the spammers.
A few days after I signed up, the phone calls began. Usually, when the caller asked to speak to Jack, I would tell them that I would fetch him to the phone. I would then set the handset down next to the phone, and get back to work. They would typically stay on the line for around 10 minutes, before they hung up.
However, on some occasions I used the cheese method. Basically, to whatever question I was asked, I replied cheese. A sample conversation:
Him Hi, may I speak to Jack?
Me Cheese.
Him I beg your pardon?
Me Cheese.
Him Did you just say cheese?
Me Cheese.
Him I'm trying to speak to Jack.
Me Cheese?
Him Look, I don't have any time to waste
Me Cheese.
(The last remark was particularly funny, in light of the huge amounts of others' time this company had wasted by funding spammers).
On one special occasion, I was called by someone in an overseas call center. They stuck religiously to the script, despite the fact that I was cheesing them at every turn. Slowly, it became clear to them that something was not quite right -- but it took them a while, because I don't think their grasp of English was perfect. Eventually, they ended the call with "OK, Jack, you really sound good, I'm sorry to bother you, goodbye."
To which I replied cheese.
If you want a slice of the action, why not reply to the next mortgage spammer yourself? Make sure you give a fake address but a real number, so that they can get through to you. Oh, and it would be fun if you signed up as Jack/Jane B. Morocco. And don't forget the cheese!
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
You can verify your registration on the DNC list:
https://www.donotcall.gov/confirm/Conf.aspx
They will send you a nice email that looks something like this:
"Your phone number with the last four digits XXXX was registered in the National Do Not Call Registry on 10/13/2003. Most telemarketers will be required to stop calling you 31 days from your registration date. Your registration will (or did) expire on 3/26/2010.
Visit www.donotcall.gov to do any of these things:
-- to renew your registration before it expires
-- to file a complaint
Print this email and keep it for your records."
I'm not exactly sure why the expiration date is more than 5 years in my case. Something to explore!
When I get a call from a telemarketer I tell them that I will listen to their entire pitch but *only* after they fulfull my "needs" through a round of phone sex. Its priceless to listen to their reactions!!
2003+5 Does not equal 2006. It comes up to 2008. Gee whiz, Where did you goto school. I do not want to send my kids there if the math is that bad.
SimonTek
My favorite line for police type charities (usually selling tickets to charity events or raffle tickets or what not) is, "Thanks, but I get enough tickets from cops without buying more of them."
I used to work for a company that solicited donations for police organizations. We used the names of 3 charities in our script that that supposedly got $30,000/yr each. From 8am-8pm (the times which were legally allowed) We had 30 level 1 telemarketers pulling in an average of $80 in donations an hour, 15 level 2 telemarketers with an average of $150/hr and 10 level 3 telemarketers averaging $300 in donations an hour.
Assuming that only 50% of the people who said they'd contribute sent their money in (As far as I could tell you weren't legally bound to sending them money for your "membership package", which of course included the 10 cent "Gold Shield Seal" sticker that was implicitly supposed to save your ass from getting a ticket. As a consequence, you do get put on the list of people they can call to guilt into donating next year, though. Those are the people the junkies would mostly call.) that's $45,900 a day. $16,753,500 a year. In 2 days they'd recoup their yearly charitable donations. We had I think, 5 offices nationwide. My office usually came in 3rd for sales per month (Once we came in first and got a keg party for it.) Let's hope that $30,000 number I heard thrown around was per office, at least.
Adarn Fool
There is the Robinsonlist. Also look at the Anti-Telemarketing Script and then there is: The counterscript available in several languages and also in PDF.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I signed up for electric and gas service here in Colorado and the person that took my information misunderstood me when I set up my account. I said "Jeff" (gasp, my first name revealed on /.) and she heard "Jess" and lo and behold, in my mailbox shortly thereafter arrived TONS of junk addressed to "Jess." Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I got any phonecalls for "Jess" but I did receive more than my fair share of junkmail, which is equally offensive to me.
The no call list has been pretty effective for my wife and I over the last few years and I can say that I have not been solicited by any companies that I did not have a previous association with.
It's better than it was...where is the national no SPAM list? Oh that's right, I have to opt-out...
Ocean is land, covered with water.
Telemarketer (T): Hello Mr Spoilsport may I call you Ralph?
RS: I own you...
T: Sorry?
RS: I own your soul...
T: You own what?
RS: I am Sataaan... I know you to the Soooooul... You are mine....
T: May I interest you in (product)?
RS: Come to Sataaaaan... Come to me.... You are mine... I own your soul...
T: (Agitated) Does this sound like something you might be interested in?
RS: Come to Sataaaan... I own your soul... You will rot in hell with me.... Come to me...
etc.
Once this black woman called and I did the Satan routine and she FREAKED OUT. She started crying and hung up. I scored 30 points for that.
Another favourite tack on these creatures:
RS: WHAT?
T: Hello? Is this Mr Spoilsport?
RS: FUCK YOU!
T: What?
RS: FUCK YOU AND YOUR WHORE OF A MOTHER WHO IS SUCKING MY COCK RIGHT NOW YOU SCUM SUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!
(click)
I get 20 points for that - It's a brute force approach. It's not that creative and it's kind of mean, so you only get 20 points for it.
Also: there's the classic:
RS: Bobo!
T: Hello? Is this Mr Spoilsport?
RS: Yabba! Tengo bleck nock! Curby flipwitters!
T: Do you speak English?
RS: Me me me speak English!
T: Would you be interested in (product pitch)?
RS: Ama watamela eatie foo!
T: What?
RS: yumma cunt swabber! Peenie drip bubby! Yumma buttlicker!
T: What?
RS: shibby shops! Peeface! Yabba Peeface!
etc. If yo ucan get them to hang up, you get 40 points, because talking like an idiot with a straight face long enough to get them to hang up is pretty hard.
Then there's always:
RS: Yes...
T: hi is this mr Spoilsport?
RS: What's it to you, motherfucker?
T: Sorry?
RS: I'm coming to your house, and I'm going to kill all your pets.
etc. whatever tey say, just march over it and make weid fucked up pseudo threats, like "I'll steal all your garbage" or "I'll pee in your garden" or "I'll get your dog knocked up" etc.
Telemarketers were put on this earth to be abused.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Even after the do-not call list thing I was getting a few calls a month from charities and "Other." Haven't had a problem since I installed asterisk though. I've got a voice menu system in place and tell telemarketers to dial 1. If they do, I tell them not to call again and disconnect them. Since I added the voice menu system I haven't had one unwanted phone call get through. So far I haven't even had to resort to playing the phone system tones that tell the remote caller the number's disconnected. Asterisk is capable, but I haven't had to turn that on.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
After getting fund raiser calls from various "State Troopers", "Widows of Firefighters", etc charities, I hunted around on google and found out that these are from companies who go around calling charities, and offering to donate somewhat large (on the scale of the organization, which can be small) constant sums of money in exchange for permission to use their name. The "charity" involved can be something as lame as the union for police officers of a particular county. In other words, they might not be in your area, or even be worth donating money to.
The companies then sell this permission to other companies who do the actual calling.
End result is that the charity gets some relatively small cash, and some company gets the ability to farm up mass sums of money in their name.
DO NOT GIVE TO THEM EVER!
... or give them fake donation information... I wonder if that would be legal or not...
Mark of the Coder fades from you. You perform Opening on World of Warcraft. Warcraft crits GPA for 4. GPA dies.
If you get a call asking for a donation to a charity, beware!
I am a fairly generous person, and I made donations in response to several of these calls. The problem is that I started getting calls from many more charities than I donated to that began with "thank you for your donatin in the past." When I say many more, I mean at least an order of magnitude more.
Next, I happened to have two of the return envelopes in my hand at the same time and noticed that the addresses were extremely similar, so rather than send them in, I sat on them for a while and started to notice that all of these charities had only two or three addresses.
Next, I started researching this. I found a report from the NY attourney general about the scandalously small portions of the donations that make their way to the named charity. Typically, the charity gets 25%, give or take 15%. In some very rare cases, it is even worse.
This has lead me to a ritual whenever I get such a request.
Understand that you are dealing with salespeople here. There are honest salespeople, and there are dishonest salespeople. The dishonest ones do not believe that the truth has anything to do with achieving their objectives, so you may have to perform a sort of impromptu cross-examination here.
I generally try to be polite, but this doesn't always work.
First, interrupt the spiel. Ask the operator if he/she is a professional fundraiser. Most will reply "yes", some will try to dance around the subject. If they dance around it, define professional for them, and ask the question again. On one occasion, an operator told me that he was not, so I clarified it by asking, "Are you telling me that you are a volunteer, that you receive no payment except for the warmth in your heart of doing a good deed?" That got the answer I was expecting, that he did, indeed, draw a wage, to which I said, "then you are a professional fundraiser."
Now ask the operator what percentage goes to the charity. You will get a non-response response, something like "It's a 75/25 split." The only exception I have encountered to this has been on the handful of occasions when I have been told that I need to call a different number (which, BTW, doesn't get answered) if I want to know that.
In the case where they tell me the split, I press for an answer to which part of the split goes to the charity. This will inevitably get a spiel back about how it would be nice to be able to give 100%, but because of staffing, postage, telecom costs, blah blah blah, only 25% can go to the charity. This is where I tell them that that is too little, and that I have no intentions of paying them $7.50 (or whatever) to give $charity $2.50 on my behalf. Sometimes they will continue to try to convince me, but at this point, I stand firm.
The other case is easier. When I am told the other phone number that I must call to get an answer to this question that really should be in the hands of the operators already, my response is that if they can't answer a basic question like that, then I won't donate through them.
Last, but not least, let me suggest that you pick a charity or two, of your own accord, and donate to it.
www.wavefront-av.com
Wow, you guys are SOOOO funny. I worked as a telemarketer when I was SIXTEEN years old. Believe me, we did not care if you were funny. You were the 5,000th person that day that asked me what I was wearing. It was such a mind-numbing job that even the most vile profanities did not even cause me pause. I don't understand why people think it's such an offensive and gross invasion of their "privacy" when someone makes a sales call. If you don't want to talk to someone don't answer the damn phone. Besides, who doesn't have caller ID nowadays? If it's a blocked call or strange number, DON'T ANSWER! It's also not funny to ask for my phone number so you can bother me at home, nor is it funny to talk like Beavis and or Butthead and or Cartman, nor are you actually going to speak to my supervisor if you ask, you are in fact going to speak to my buddy sitting next to me who's going to tell you you're a self-important jackass who needs to shut the hell up. But moreso, don't start being a jackass to some poor fifteen or sixteen year old kid working the best paying job he could find in his crappy hometown to save up for his own car. Oh yeah, and I don't know if the place I was working at operated illegally or not (this was about six years ago), but when people asked us to be put on our do not call list, we had to get out a do not call list form (physical piece of paper) and ask to confirm their name and address. Most people would just scream at us "NO FUCK YOU NEVER CALL HERE AGAIN BLEEEARRRGHHH!" so they never got put on the list. If someone was especially rude we'd hit the "call back in five minutes" button and it would get shunted to someone else on the floor. That was always good for a few laughs.