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China vs U.S. in an 'Internet Race'
avatar4d writes to mention an article on CIO about a new 'space race' on the internet between China and the U.S.. China is currently hard at work at what is being called the 'Chinese Next Generation Internet' (CNGI). With plans to unveil the project at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, the network is part of a plan to leap ahead of the United States in innovation and technology. From the article: "The strategy, outlined in China's latest five-year plan, calls for the country to transition its economy from one based almost entirely on manufacturing to one that produces its own scientific and technological breakthroughs — using a new and improved version of today's dominant innovation platform, the Internet. 'CNGI is the culmination of this revolutionary plan' to turn China into the world's innovation capital, says Wu Hequan, vice president of the Chinese Academy of Engineering and the chairman of the CNGI Expert Committee, the group overseeing the project. 'We will use it as a way to break through and be competitive in the global economic market.'"
then get off your butt, turn off the TV and get inventing.
The only way to succeed is to build success yourself.
Here in the States, tech isn't government-mandated and government-controlled, we don't fix our currency rate, and, above all else, it's possible to become very, very, VERY rich if you're successful in tech.
You can also grow very very very rich in china too. It a different game but the essentials are the same. Connections, hard work, a bit of luck, a few bribes, and exploiting those below you. Same in the US as in China. There are apartments in beijing with a lease price of 500,000+ yuan (~90,000+ US) per mo. It's a sign of wealth when you have such sky high realistate.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
The whole idea of "race" and needing decades of experience to get in front is very archaic. You don't need to follow the full technological evolution to get there.
Besides.... China has an amazing history of technological superiority over the last couple of thousand years or so, with only the last 100 or so years (a mere 5%) being a "glitch".
Engineering is the art of compromise.
So, China wants a large population of smart people, trained and able to ask fundamental questions, who won't question Party Orthodoxy.
Good luck.
One of two things will happen: Another cultural revolution, or the overthrow of the regime.
Given that the PRC is a mature fascist state, I know where my money is.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
I wouldn't be too quick to judge China's scientific community based on a translation of a one-line project synopsis by a buearocrat.
As opposed to the government that claims it has freedom of speech and information while blocking science that disagrees with their corporate views.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
China and the USA are behind in the broadband race; each have to catch up with Sweden.
------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
It's nice to know that people's view of China haven't changed in 50 years. US Education system is doing it's normal bang up job.
Before you laugh too heavily about China's "space seeds," you might want to remember that most American believe:
1. The earth was created in 7 days
2. That god created people "as is"
3. Evolution is a myth
You see America can trump China in ignorance everytime.
But let's not also forget:
1. all the capital investment going into China - China leads the world in foreign investment.
2. the trade deficit - the US imports more goods from China then we export.
3. China has HUGE cash reserves, meanwhile the US is running a 6 trillion dollar deficit which will only get larger thanks to medicare and social security benefits, the war in iraq.
4. almost all electronics and manufacturing is done in china.
5. china's population - a sellers wet dream. the us' market dominance is fading as more and more chinese have disposable income.
Kudos to the morons who aren't paying attention.
Sorry, but China's growth rate is a prime example of the catch-up effect. In short, China's growth rate is double-digits (or near there) because they were using their labor so inefficiently until recently that they only have one direction to go. Besides, if GDP growth was proof of a country's greatness, perhaps China better look in their rear-view mirror, because Azerbaijan is catching up fast.
As for China being the next world superpower, call me when they get a navy. Sure, they can nuke us, but they can't even get past Chile's navy to hold the nuked territory, much less our own, and it's not like we don't have a few nukes to play with. Heck, the US has 2/3 of the quantitative aircraft carrier fleet in the world, and 4/5 of the deck space.
When you look at the four thousand years of Chinese history, it can't help but scream one clear message, and that is the message of repeated lost opportunities due to their obsession with preserving the established order at all cost. That is why they are trying to create their own, closed "internet" and that is also why the US is so obsessed with controlling what is really a global resource as well. I think that this obsession with control will profoundly hurt bith nations, although since China's obsession is so much more total and clueless, I think that the damage done to China's future in the long run will be greater, if it is expressed as a percentage of "what might have been". However, I don't think that we in the US should deceive ourselves, in both cases, the result is tragic. Corporations (and their desire to make a quick and easy buck at the expense of the American consumer and real innovation), control US Internet policy almost as profoundly as the China's obsession with preventing any kind of real change controls theirs. Are the two really that different? I don't think that they are... they are two sides of the same coin.. "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever" George Orwell --from Nineteen Eighty-Four
Makes sense to me.
The way I see it, there's a world of difference between telling scientists to dissent from the government on their own time, and telling scientists not to dissent from the government at all.
Wake me up when approximately half the Chinese population is openly and vehemently opposed to their government, and we'll talk about U.S.-China moral equivalence.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
China won't get away unscathed. U.S. consumers pretty much financed China's economic growth over the past decade. When the gravy train derails, expect China to be smacked against the bulkhead too. You want to talk about real-estate bubbles? Chinese costal cities are as bubblicious as they come, with housing prices rivaling that of California. Pretty soon, there will be a series of giant popping sounds circling the globe.
Maybe to see if the seeds are still viable after exposure to the radiation in space.
and why would you want to send people to 'hold' the big pile of radioactive debri?
Superpower wars aren't about military force anymore(if they ever were). It's about economic force.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Shortly after Iraq being overthrown, I remember one of Saddam's top guys, who had been captured, being interviewed, and saying something like "America didn't win because of its culture or anything like that. It just won because of its technical superiority."
I watched this, shaking my head, and thinking, "They will never get it. You could try to explain to this guy, until you're blue in the face, that America's 'technical superiority' DERIVES from its culture -- its freedom to innovate, diversity of ideas, etc -- but you'd just be wasting your breath."
Of course, that's not to say someone else couldn't create a culture that is even MORE dynamic, inquisitive, vibrant, etc. If THAT happened, I would worry about being surpassed. Otherwise, not so much.
- Alaska Jack
This is true, and, in fact, is where China is even further behind.
China's GDP was $7.2 trillion in 2001, compared to the USA, which clocked in at $11.75 trillion in 2001. Plus, thanks to China's 'free' government and its 'honesty and trustworthiness', there's no guarantee China's numbers are even that high, nor that they've been growing that fast.
Assuming these numbers, which are supposed to be newer, are correct, the USA single-handedly beats out the European Union and is a solid $3.5 trillion ahead of China. Considering how the USA has about 2/3 the population of the EU and less than 1/4 of China's population, that's pretty impressive.